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  1. #41
    Very sad..

    We're a casual guild who raid 2 times a week, and we've managed to kill 5/12 already.. I don't think a nerf was needed at all.
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  2. #42
    I woke up early since my neigbours like to drill the damn walls in the morning, but this Garalon changes really made my mood for today. Haha

  3. #43
    I still think Horridon is the hardest encounter among the first 6... probably those nerfs makes it trivial, but I honestly think is the only one that requires a little bit of "raid" execution and has real comp issues, at least on the first kills.

  4. #44
    Stood in the Fire Confucius's Avatar
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    tortos nerf was needed. Not the bat damage (that's a bonus nerf in my eyes) but the spinning turtle speed. Council... right now, if you have enough dps to burn Sul down before the empowerment , it's pretty much a faceroll. Horridon, I dont understand, is that 15% nerf on top of the hp nerf they already did a while back? First time I read it I thought they mistakenly copied the line from an order patch note. Durumu, probably needed.
    Good thing they didnt nerf Megaera.

  5. #45
    As someone who cleared those both on 10 and 25...that's stupid, it was easier on 10 then it was on 25...and that's when we were Ilvl500-505.

  6. #46
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Not sure why you need to rage over Garalon? Old boss is old, so if somebody now needs and gets help (on normal difficulty no less) - so what?

    ALL the fixes, ToT and Garalon are normal difficulty only. Makes me facepalm and headesk when people think they must nerdrage over that.

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskillz View Post
    Yeah Group Therapy is totally a normal 2-day/week raiding guild... please >.>
    Oh, but they are. Check their 25m kills. they all came at Fridays or Thursdays.
    They do have alt runs though, which raids 10m.

  8. #48
    High Overlord Durbi's Avatar
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    haha at Garalon nerf, 12 minutes, for the love of god, how bad does your dps need to be to even come anywhere close to 12 mins? i think blizzard is just insulting people now, it's just sad....plus with all the new gear and shit why they felt the need to nerf old boss is beyond me

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamal View Post
    Of course normal feels easy for basement dweller guillds who raid 60 hours a week. But if guilds who also do HCs are the only ones who can clear normal that means a lot of people can't raid at all. Even if they were skilled, their gear would be 30 item levels too low for those guilds progress.
    I'm not sure how you are thing, perhaps your guild needs to take some time to read up on your classes and the bosses?
    I'm in a small casual guild with people aged 20 - 50 years old, a lot of people in my raid group have work, children or at least a partner so we cant raid much or long times. We only raid a few hours each week, even weeks when we can put our raiding to the max its we get about 7-8 hours at the most.

    Right now we have manage to kill 11/12 normal and this tier will last for many more month and we will get an indirect nerf when the item upgrades go live again with 5.3. If this tier is going to last for a few more month what would a casual guild as our do if we was done with that place after a month?

    Actually we have an even more casual raiding group in our guild, they started raiding a few months after MoP vent live and only raid for 3 hours a week during the first tier, often needing to bring a pug or two. Because of that they had only downed like 9/16 bosses in tier 14 or something like that when 5.2 hit and they all had an ilvl between 470-490. What they did were that they each week killed the first boss in ToT since he is so easy and then vent on to progress tier 14. With the nerf to that tier and the valor 522 gear and drops from the first boss in ToT and the new raid finder they could quickly progress through the rest of tier 14 during the first couple of weeks in 5.2.

    Last week with the new valor upgrades, drops from first tier 15 boss, drops from raid finder and new drops from tier 14 all had ilvl between 492 - 505 and they started to progress tier 15 for real and manage to kill second boss and started to work on third and they will probably score a kill this week.

    Isn't this exactly how progress should look? Wouldn't it have been strange if we would have cleared 12/12 in the first week and our super casual group would have done it in 2-3 weeks?
    Last edited by Ater; 2013-04-11 at 09:57 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Very sad..

    We're a casual guild who raid 2 times a week, and we've managed to kill 5/12 already.. I don't think a nerf was needed at all.
    You've killed them. It seems the nerfs weren't aimed at you...

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    You've killed them. It seems the nerfs weren't aimed at you...
    No but that means there will be shitload of people facerolling the boss we killed the "hard(er)" way. And I don't like that at all.

    One of our very casual roster have a very hectic raid schedule and they just managed to down horridon, now they'll be 5/12 like us in now time, I don't think thats fair thats all :/.

    Same for the other guilds who were behind, now the loots is basically free till durumu.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Nereuslol View Post
    Oh, but they are. Check their 25m kills. they all came at Fridays or Thursdays.
    They do have alt runs though, which raids 10m.
    People from Envy, Apex and who knows which other high end guild, raiding "for fun" in the weekends on their alts with people who "retired" from hardcore raiding... That's not my standard semi-casual guild.
    And look at their progress, they didn't even bother to try the hardest bosses of the tier, they got the easy kills because they don't have time to waste on trying hard bosses while undergeared, and already know what to do to avoid that.
    Last edited by noskillz; 2013-04-11 at 10:10 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by noskillz View Post
    Yeah Group Therapy is totally a normal 2-day/week raiding guild... please >.>
    Well... yes? They looked pretty normal to me.

  14. #54
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Not true. We managed to down him after around 10 tries, and the raids average iLevel was around 490. I was on my Death Knight Tank at the time, which had an iLevel of 480, and some of our DPS had fairly low iLevel as well.
    Then you were in one of the 4 guilds who did manage to kill him lower than 500 ilvl (I checked on the first week when we were suffering on door 3 with 490 ilvl, only 4 guilds who had downed him had that sort of ilvl). Good job. You are freakishly good and so are your guild.

    Everyone else can't do what you did, so take the praise and stop mistaking your own experience for a universal rule.
    What we had to do though was be smart about how we did things. We positioned the boss so that all adds could be nuked down right next to him for extra Cleave damage, along with using Bloodlust on the third door, to get us through that area.

    I'm not claiming that if we can do it, all should be able to, but sometimes people need to really think about how to go about their boss encounters. We spent ages wiping on Council of Elders because we just sucked at it, everything was going wrong, but now, we 1 (maybe 2) shot it every time because we're confident in the encounter.
    And if my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle. Ain't talking about you, talking about the general experience and general progress - which is for TOT - down jinrokh, fail at horridon, quit. In T14 the general experience was either fail at SG and quit or fail at garalon and quit.


    There really isn't much of a comp you can run that doesn't have some form of capability when it comes to what has been nerfed. The movement speed isn't going to be hugely beneficial to a Melee DPS heavy comp, due to the knock back being the most annoying part of them, and the bat damage can be mitigated by Tank & Healer cooldowns, of which every Tank & Healer has some.
    It's poor design to require that sort of thing on every phase for a normal mode. One wrongly pressed button from a wipe all the time is hardly ideal for a normal mode.

    There are plenty of comps were you won't have the required slows (or will have to sacrifice something else to get them) in 10 man. Blizzard certainly think so - hence the nerf!
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithfin View Post
    Well... yes? They looked pretty normal to me.
    6/13HC with a strict 8 hours/week schedule is exceptional. They must have very, very good players. Hence, not 'normal'.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    No but that means there will be shitload of people facerolling the boss we killed the "hard(er)" way. And I don't like that at all.

    One of our very casual roster have a very hectic raid schedule and they just managed to down horridon, now they'll be 5/12 like us in now time, I don't think thats fair thats all :/.

    Same for the other guilds who were behind, now the loots is basically free till durumu.
    Thats a pretty selfish attitude. Console yourself with the fact that despite the nerfs they will still struggle. Anyway, I found the 2 bosses after Durumu to be easier than the first few bosses so you'll pull ahead easily again. The groups that needed the nerfs to get past council won't. Once again, I'm not sure why it should annoy you, if you are better than them the rankings will prove it.

  17. #57
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Nerfs to normal mode are okay. ToT normal modes are a bit overtuned for your average raid, tbh. Seeing so many people struggle so much and seeing so many people not having normal mode clear yet (many of them not even close!) after such a long time is telling.

    I'm fine with the nerfs and I'm not priding myself on having killed boss x pre-something. There's no reason to be upset because some other people will kill the bosses you killed some 4 weeks ago now in a slightly nerfed version. Goodness, people still get worked up about other people having it easier way later. My mind never ceases to boggle.

    Be happy that you can waltz over the bosses that you have on farm already now and will have more time to spend on new challenges.

  18. #58
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Then you were in one of the 4 guilds who did manage to kill him lower than 500 ilvl (I checked on the first week when we were suffering on door 3 with 490 ilvl, only 4 guilds who had downed him had that sort of ilvl). Good job. You are freakishly good and so are your guild.
    Clearly, when we're still 6 / 12 Normal Mode 2 Days a Week (8 Hours) Raiding Guild ...

  19. #59
    Even if I have to call myself a badie, the horridon neerf was needed. The way that fight is made is really horrible. At the first sight I had a thought that this fight was more or less on the heroic scale to previous fights, so much stuff was happening.
    On the other hand, council nerf wasn't needed, atleast for us.
    Overall id say these nerfs were a good thing, aslong as later bosses aren't changed.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    No but that means there will be shitload of people facerolling the boss we killed the "hard(er)" way. And I don't like that at all.
    Why don't you like that at all? How does it affect you in any way whatsoever? If this was Heroic mode, there might be some case to be made about competition, but Normal mode isn't supposed to be a serious race of any kind. My guild is only 5/12 normal, and we've got the bosses they've nerfed on one or two shot easy now, and I couldn't care less about them being nerfed.

    Besides, I did the bosses after this nerf, and honestly, except for the lower disease damage on Horridon door 3, none of the changes seemed noticeable for my group.

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