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  1. #1261
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discmeedel View Post
    Everyone knows the green shit hurts a lot and it is the worst head to kill, now if you understood the mechanics what you would do is only kill the green head on the 2nd to last phase and then pop lust and burn the last head, this way you will basically faceroll through the last head which will be the only one with poison bombs to fast for you to even notice it, and even if you do someone usually survives and the boss dies. This way you can have your "if you move from stuff you dont take dmg" way of doing it + its way easier
    Actually no that's not how we did it. Our succesfull kill basically ignored everything you did and we got plenty of advice from the other raiding guilds on the server that told us you blow lust on the last head and kill g and r. When you kill G and R the dps spends less time away from the boss (because well running from the blue beam takes up more time). This fight is a dps check, it's not about healing. It's a dps race and will honestly only get easier once we get more dps gear. It's about killing the heads as fast as you can, especially the last two. It's not way easier, it's actually alot gayer because you end up running around more to blue shit and lose dps that way. We understand the mechanics. We tried it your way. Were not ignorant of how to do these bosses. The fights are just overtuned. PERIOD.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 06:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Yeah I get that, just trying to tell you nicely that you are starting to sound like the madman on a soapbox screaming so hard that the spittle is flying.

    By the way:

    Light of dawn
    Instant cast
    Requires Paladin (Holy)
    Requires level 70

    Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to emanate a wave of healing energy, healing up to 6 of the most injured targets in your party or raid within 30 yards for 829 to 923 (+ 15.2% of SpellPower) per charge of Holy Power.


    *You don't use a spell because people aren't stacked yet it's fully effective to 30 yards*
    Don't bother telling me you know how to play the "fucking paladin" and then come up with a blatently stupid statement like that. I just took a quick look at WOL and the top 10 man parses are rife with holy palas. Care to know what one of their biggest heals were? Yeah thats right.

    Anyway, this isn't about you knowing your class or not, its more about you taking some deep breaths and stepping away from the soapbox.
    LoD has much less viability in 10 mans. If people were stacked I would use it more. People aren't stacked like that in our 10 man. Lots of times I find im not in range of that many players. In fact the few times that people are stacked (say during rampage) you abuse the fuck out of LoH. Duh. I know what fucking light of dawn is and I don't need clowns on forums telling me how to play my fucking class. I need developers who can tune content properly.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-04-19 at 06:33 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #1262
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Actually no that's not how we did it. Our succesfull kill basically ignored everything you did and we got plenty of advice from the other raiding guilds on the server that told us you blow lust on the last head and kill g and r. When you kill G and R the dps spends less time away from the boss (because well running from the blue beam takes up more time). This fight is a dps check, it's not about healing. It's a dps race and will honestly only get easier once we get more dps gear. It's about killing the heads as fast as you can, especially the last two. It's not way easier, it's actually alot gayer because you end up running around more to blue shit and lose dps that way. We understand the mechanics. We tried it your way. Were not ignorant of how to do these bosses. The fights are just overtuned. PERIOD.
    Well megeara is one of those fights where you need to know what your raids strength is because if you do it the way i said you need to have strong dpsers that know how to maximize while still doing a lot of cinders and torrents, If you do it the way you did it the healing needs to be strong. You can do it anyway you want but the only real DPS req to make as i see it is getting the heads down before the 4th breath, it is doable to get the 4th one if you use CDs but it will only hurt you, and i would say if you get the 4th breath while doing your strat you are gonna have a bad time.
    I would not say that this fight is overtuned, it is hard and nothing should be a cakewalk but most of the later bosses are even harder except for probably ji-kun dark animus and consorts. Remember though that having perfect tuning is really hard and i still havent seen a tier where it has actually been the case so just accept that. You need to have some sort of skill to play this game, thats what it all comes back to in the end.
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  3. #1263
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discmeedel View Post
    Well megeara is one of those fights where you need to know what your raids strength is because if you do it the way i said you need to have strong dpsers that know how to maximize while still doing a lot of cinders and torrents, If you do it the way you did it the healing needs to be strong. You can do it anyway you want but the only real DPS req to make as i see it is getting the heads down before the 4th breath, it is doable to get the 4th one if you use CDs but it will only hurt you, and i would say if you get the 4th breath while doing your strat you are gonna have a bad time.
    I would not say that this fight is overtuned, it is hard and nothing should be a cakewalk but most of the later bosses are even harder except for probably ji-kun dark animus and consorts. Remember though that having perfect tuning is really hard and i still havent seen a tier where it has actually been the case so just accept that. You need to have some sort of skill to play this game, thats what it all comes back to in the end.
    It's overtuned if your average ilvl is under 508. I've been told most of the later bosses for the most part are easier. I've got enough skill to playu this game, always did and will continue but the tuning is off the chart. The statistics suggest this. Blizzards recent nerfs suggest this. Normal is no longer normal. It's closer to heroic.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #1264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Actually no that's not how we did it. Our succesfull kill basically ignored everything you did and we got plenty of advice from the other raiding guilds on the server that told us you blow lust on the last head and kill g and r..
    So you took the strat the other guilds that were more progressed than you used and took it as the holy grail? You realise you cna go GRGRBGR and shave a fuckton of green dmg in the end right?

    As well since you seem to flame anyone contradicting you and tossing out how you know wtf to do I will present this

    This is our Holy pallie 508 ilevel :
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...urrig/advanced

    Per your link before this is yoru holy pallie with 504 Ilevel
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Dhcp/advanced

    Here is our WOL healign done for megaera and as you can see he did 71k hps sustained
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...?s=6499&e=7011

    This is your WOL to this weeks kill where you did 52k HPS sustained:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...=10339&e=10792

    Im sorry but 4 ilevels dose not make a 20k hps difference! Thus I must assume its a L2p and strat issue that is not allowing you to perform properly!

    O and case in point of classes not using everything in there tool box... No shattering throw from your war at all on the kill, no potion of the mogu, no heroic leap dmg to boss... This isnt hardcore raider stuff this is basic use your dps CD's when you are a dps role!

    If it was overtuned we could not 9 man it in our gear FFS we don't even have drumu dead yet!

  5. #1265
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    It's overtuned if your average ilvl is under 508. I've been told most of the later bosses for the most part are easier. I've got enough skill to playu this game, always did and will continue but the tuning is off the chart. The statistics suggest this. Blizzards recent nerfs suggest this. Normal is no longer normal. It's closer to heroic.
    And yet Megaera as one of the lowest wipe count of the entire raid. But when data doesn't concur with you, just ignore it right ? Something you don't allow other people to do.

    Can't be you or your raid, it HAS to be blizzard.

    This is our first kill : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j...?s=5942&e=6492
    Pally was 504 ilvl

    Notice the fight length, yeah, it was 9 minutes for us. And healers weren't oom and we didnt all wipe.
    Last edited by Eihwaz; 2013-04-19 at 06:46 PM.
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  6. #1266
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    It's overtuned if your average ilvl is under 508. I've been told most of the later bosses for the most part are easier. I've got enough skill to playu this game, always did and will continue but the tuning is off the chart. The statistics suggest this. Blizzards recent nerfs suggest this. Normal is no longer normal. It's closer to heroic.
    I can agree with you that normal is getting closer to heroic and that is because normal and heroic is inevidently bosses with close to the same mechanics and for heroic to be as hard as heroic raiders want it, its very hard to not make slightly harder normal bosses. This can be looked upon with different views because having harder heroic bosses i agree with and since i am a heroic raider myself i like it. At the same time this is hurting the overall raid scene because normals are getting harder at the same pace which only the normal raiders that have been normal raiders for a long time actually wants (note: this is from my personal experience so i cant say its the truth.)
    What happens though when normals gets harder all the time is that the people that cant use enough time to keep up to date with what they need to will have to go to lfr and there is also the people that are completely new to raiding which will have close to no chance of actually raiding at either heroic level just because everything is getting harder. My conclusion is that as long as heroic raiders like me wants harder content the raiding scene will never grow again, it will slowly and painfully kill it self, probably wont happen in a few more tiers but it is definately happening as i see it.
    My only question for you is that you seem to be one of those that still have the time to keep yourself up to date to be able to do normals and the fact that you have already killed megeara proves this now why are you just here to argue, I would understand if someone new to the game came and brought this up with some reasonable arguments, but seeing someone that have been raiding a lot come here just for the sake of arguing seems odd.
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  7. #1267
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Actually no that's not how we did it. Our succesfull kill basically ignored everything you did and we got plenty of advice from the other raiding guilds on the server that told us you blow lust on the last head and kill g and r. When you kill G and R the dps spends less time away from the boss (because well running from the blue beam takes up more time). This fight is a dps check, it's not about healing. It's a dps race and will honestly only get easier once we get more dps gear. It's about killing the heads as fast as you can, especially the last two. It's not way easier, it's actually alot gayer because you end up running around more to blue shit and lose dps that way. We understand the mechanics. We tried it your way. Were not ignorant of how to do these bosses. The fights are just overtuned. PERIOD.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 06:28 PM ----------



    LoD has much less viability in 10 mans. If people were stacked I would use it more. People aren't stacked like that in our 10 man. Lots of times I find im not in range of that many players. In fact the few times that people are stacked (say during rampage) you abuse the fuck out of LoH. Duh. I know what fucking light of dawn is and I don't need clowns on forums telling me how to play my fucking class. I need developers who can tune content properly.
    You're the clown on the forum at the moment:
    Reasonable poster: "You're doing it wrong"
    You: "WE BARELY SCAPED BY WITH 5 PEOPLE DEAD ITS OVERTUNED, I KNOW BETTER!!!!"

    Reasonable poster: "The spells you were suggesting aren't shit, you need to change your healing habits"
    You: "I'VE BEEN PLAYING SINCE VANILLA, I DON'T NEED CLOWNS TELLING ME HOW TO PLAY EVEN THOUGH AN AVERAGE PERSON WITH A LOWER ILEVEL HEALS 40% MORE THAN ME!!!"

    I'm done responding to you here, you've lost all objectivity and aren't open to listening, at all.

  8. #1268
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    You've lost all objectivity and aren't open to listening, at all.
    This is why I try to stick with the stats. It's always tempting to extrapolate from personal circumstances, but that's very dangerous, regardless of where you stand on the issues.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  9. #1269
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I;m doing these fights on normal and we downed meg last week. Last pull of the night. Half the raid wiped. Screen shot at the end. You'd think we'd downed the last boss in the heroic tier or something. It's fucking horseshit and calling it the appropriate tuning is ignorant in the extreme.
    I can understand this very well cause its almost as if i saw my first kill on that boss when reading that. There is just so much shit going on everywhere in ToT even compared to previous tier :/ so much unforgiving mechanics. I understand perfeckly why unforgiving 1 shot mechanics may be good for HC raiding - but the boss kill count shows a deep fall in normal mode when u compare it to previus tier in the same time bracket that the nerfs are justified and im sure we will see some more nerfs in next few weeks - for sure on maegera :/

  10. #1270
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    You must be fucking kidding me? I posted the WoL earlier in the thread. We killed it this week. IT'S NOT FUCKING EASY don't you get it? We did EVERYTHING YOU FUCKING LISTED and we only killed him at the last pull of the night, with half the raid fucking dead. We studied. WE came prepared. The fight is just overtuned. I'm raiding with players who have raided normals and heroics for YEARS, who raided in tbc and we've got TWO DEATH'S DEMISE PLAYERS IN OUR RAID (realm first defeats of yogg saron) and were all pretty much in agreement THAT THESE FIGHTS ARE FUCKING OVERTUNED FOR NORMAL. When we killed Meg you'd think we'd down a heroic boss or something. The relief was palpable.

    Not calling them overtuned is silly. It ignores the statistics and the reality of these bosses. But what's the fucking point? Arguing with you people is like arguing with creationists. You present evidence. They plug their ears. You scream and holler at them. They plug their ears. The universe could collapse around you and you would say nope not happening raid tiers are tuned fine. I'd rather be arguing evolution to christians than dealing with this.
    your wol parse shows two people died

    21:56:05.567 Dhcp [21:56:02.827] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 136500
    [21:56:03.827] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 97500
    [21:56:04.847] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 82113 (O: 15387) (more)

    21:58:01.596 Erexshun [21:57:59.216] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 44200
    [21:57:59.996] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 75448 (A: 1902)
    [21:58:01.246] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 70642 (O: 6708) (more)

    you to flaming cinders and a warrior to rampage. in your wol it show you using holy prism instand of hammer of light. maybe my understand of pallies is limited but wouldn't hammer of light be more useful on this fight that prism for the rampage damage. also you stated this fight is a dps race but if thats the cause why were people 4 healing it the first week to down it?

  11. #1271
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncant65 View Post
    your wol parse shows two people died

    21:56:05.567 Dhcp [21:56:02.827] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 136500
    [21:56:03.827] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 97500
    [21:56:04.847] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 82113 (O: 15387) (more)

    21:58:01.596 Erexshun [21:57:59.216] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 44200
    [21:57:59.996] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 75448 (A: 1902)
    [21:58:01.246] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 70642 (O: 6708) (more)

    you to flaming cinders and a warrior to rampage. in your wol it show you using holy prism instand of hammer of light. maybe my understand of pallies is limited but wouldn't hammer of light be more useful on this fight that prism for the rampage damage. also you stated this fight is a dps race but if thats the cause why were people 4 healing it the first week to down it?
    The log is incorrect or more likely the boss died just as we ate another flaming pile of green shit on the ground. After the boss was dead we had 4 or 5 of us down. Potentially hammer is better for rampage but the entire fight isn't about rampages, in fact on my opinion rampage is the easiest part to heal. Everyone is stacked and we have cooldowns set up for that. The after rampage phase where the green shit doesn't stop is the more healing intensive and the more dps intensive really.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    You're the clown on the forum at the moment:
    Reasonable poster: "You're doing it wrong"
    You: "WE BARELY SCAPED BY WITH 5 PEOPLE DEAD ITS OVERTUNED, I KNOW BETTER!!!!"

    Reasonable poster: "The spells you were suggesting aren't shit, you need to change your healing habits"
    You: "I'VE BEEN PLAYING SINCE VANILLA, I DON'T NEED CLOWNS TELLING ME HOW TO PLAY EVEN THOUGH AN AVERAGE PERSON WITH A LOWER ILEVEL HEALS 40% MORE THAN ME!!!"

    I'm done responding to you here, you've lost all objectivity and aren't open to listening, at all.
    Good I'm glad your done because you didn't have a fucking leg to stand on anyway. I guess every other fuckign raid who can't down that boss and is struggling and even the developer who nerfed the piss out of many of the fights is just doing it wrong. EVERYBODY ELSE IS ALWAYS DOING IT WRONG but not you. Well I've got some bad fucking news for you. their are far more people "doing it wrong" than you doing it right and I expect that we'll see more nerfs in the future because of that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    And yet Megaera as one of the lowest wipe count of the entire raid. But when data doesn't concur with you, just ignore it right ? Something you don't allow other people to do.

    Can't be you or your raid, it HAS to be blizzard.

    This is our first kill : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j...?s=5942&e=6492
    Pally was 504 ilvl

    Notice the fight length, yeah, it was 9 minutes for us. And healers weren't oom and we didnt all wipe.
    I expect the wipe count to rise quite steadily now that they nerfed the first 4 bosses and made them CLOSER TO NORMAL. I'm not ignoring the statistic, I'm disputing the conclusions you make because of them.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    So you took the strat the other guilds that were more progressed than you used and took it as the holy grail? You realise you cna go GRGRBGR and shave a fuckton of green dmg in the end right?

    As well since you seem to flame anyone contradicting you and tossing out how you know wtf to do I will present this

    This is our Holy pallie 508 ilevel :
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...urrig/advanced

    Per your link before this is yoru holy pallie with 504 Ilevel
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Dhcp/advanced

    Here is our WOL healign done for megaera and as you can see he did 71k hps sustained
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...?s=6499&e=7011

    This is your WOL to this weeks kill where you did 52k HPS sustained:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...=10339&e=10792

    Im sorry but 4 ilevels dose not make a 20k hps difference! Thus I must assume its a L2p and strat issue that is not allowing you to perform properly!

    O and case in point of classes not using everything in there tool box... No shattering throw from your war at all on the kill, no potion of the mogu, no heroic leap dmg to boss... This isnt hardcore raider stuff this is basic use your dps CD's when you are a dps role!

    If it was overtuned we could not 9 man it in our gear FFS we don't even have drumu dead yet!

    You can assume all you like I don't really care quite frankly. I don't need kids on forums telling me how to play the game when I've been able to play it adequatly and even better than adequalty in some cases for years. It's not an l2p issue, it's not a strat issue, it's a fucking shitty raid tuning issue. But you know what? keep telling good players they suck and see who you have left to raid with. This community is fucking disgusting. IT"S OVERTUNED and I don't care how good you fucking think you are or you actually are, expect more nerfs. Hell that fight nerfs itself with gear because it's a MASSIVE FUCKING GEAR CHECK.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #1272
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I expect the wipe count to rise quite steadily now that they nerfed the first 4 bosses and made them CLOSER TO NORMAL. I'm not ignoring the statistic, I'm disputing the conclusions you make because of them.
    Oh i'm sure its gonna, but people have to get past tortos already, even though it's a lot easier now because turtles were almost the only problem there, but a big big one.

    And then, coming from nerfed bosses, they are gonna hit a brickwall named Megaera, wipe, complain, and we'll see Meg being nerfed. Ji-Kun is a complete joke honestly so I don't think we'll see any fix on him.

    And then people are gonna get past Nerfed-Meg and Ji-Kun, and hit a brick wall 10 times harder than Meg, named Durumu, and complain, and...

    You get the idea
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  13. #1273
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discmeedel View Post
    I can agree with you that normal is getting closer to heroic and that is because normal and heroic is inevidently bosses with close to the same mechanics and for heroic to be as hard as heroic raiders want it, its very hard to not make slightly harder normal bosses. This can be looked upon with different views because having harder heroic bosses i agree with and since i am a heroic raider myself i like it. At the same time this is hurting the overall raid scene because normals are getting harder at the same pace which only the normal raiders that have been normal raiders for a long time actually wants (note: this is from my personal experience so i cant say its the truth.)
    What happens though when normals gets harder all the time is that the people that cant use enough time to keep up to date with what they need to will have to go to lfr and there is also the people that are completely new to raiding which will have close to no chance of actually raiding at either heroic level just because everything is getting harder. My conclusion is that as long as heroic raiders like me wants harder content the raiding scene will never grow again, it will slowly and painfully kill it self, probably wont happen in a few more tiers but it is definately happening as i see it.
    My only question for you is that you seem to be one of those that still have the time to keep yourself up to date to be able to do normals and the fact that you have already killed megeara proves this now why are you just here to argue, I would understand if someone new to the game came and brought this up with some reasonable arguments, but seeing someone that have been raiding a lot come here just for the sake of arguing seems odd.
    Easy solution. Design raids that aren't one size fits all. Current raids are designed with one size fits all mechanics and the only thing they do is tune numbers instead of actually looking at the fights from the perspective of the raid running them.

    Why am I still arguing about this? Because I really didn't want to come back to the game to run hard mode raids. I wanted some beer league casual normals I could raid with friends and NOT leave players behind who can't keep up. I'm not coming here for the sake of arguing, i'm coming here because we had to leave people behind these tiers and I'm genuinely afraid that I will get left behind to. I used to think I was a pretty damn good paladin healer, good enough to heal normals in the past for sure and even heroics (in ICC and in Firelands) but this tier and the kids on this forum are apparently suggesting otherwise. Hell I'd be okay with being an average player but apparently I might not even be that. It's demoralizing. In between finals and assignments coming due I have this extra weight on top of me that apparently I'm no longer up to snuff not because I changed or I got worse but because the game just got to fucking hard. Nobody in the guild says it to me but I can read the writing on the wall. Or maybe I'm being paranoid I don't know. It's just to much. I'm not quitting, that's not a part of who I am but I also don't want to hold anybody back or be a burden ya know. I appreciate you asking me this though. At least you didn't call me a bad. The rest of these assholes would rather call me a bad , and critique my play instead of the raid itself. You sir get no caps rampage

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Oh i'm sure its gonna, but people have to get past tortos already, even though it's a lot easier now because turtles were almost the only problem there, but a big big one.

    And then, coming from nerfed bosses, they are gonna hit a brickwall named Megaera, wipe, complain, and we'll see Meg being nerfed. Ji-Kun is a complete joke honestly so I don't think we'll see any fix on him.

    And then people are gonna get past Nerfed-Meg and Ji-Kun, and hit a brick wall 10 times harder than Meg, named Durumu, and complain, and...

    You get the idea
    I think that should tell you the fights are all overtuned but apparently we live in a crazy world now where normal raiders just can't cut it anymore and the only raid content outside of lfr is for hardcores who min max everything.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-04-19 at 07:42 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #1274
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    Nerfs would not be necessarily if the fight mechanics were simplier. Take example Molten Core. No nerfs were ever done there afaik because the fight mechanics were simple. Tank and spank and the occasional RUN.

    Nowadays all bosses have 20 abilities, so there's bound to be some that are overtuned.

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  15. #1275
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Easy solution. Design raids that aren't one size fits all. Current raids are designed with one size fits all mechanics and the only thing they do is tune numbers instead of actually looking at the fights from the perspective of the raid running them.

    Why am I still arguing about this? Because I really didn't want to come back to the game to run hard mode raids. I wanted some beer league casual normals I could raid with friends and NOT leave players behind who can't keep up. I'm not coming here for the sake of arguing, i'm coming here because we had to leave people behind these tiers and I'm genuinely afraid that I will get left behind to. I used to think I was a pretty damn good paladin healer, good enough to heal normals in the past for sure and even heroics (in ICC and in Firelands) but this tier and the kids on this forum are apparently suggesting otherwise. Hell I'd be okay with being an average player but apparently I might not even be that. It's demoralizing. In between finals and assignments coming due I have this extra weight on top of me that apparently I'm no longer up to snuff not because I changed or I got worse but because the game just got to fucking hard. Nobody in the guild says it to me but I can read the writing on the wall. Or maybe I'm being paranoid I don't know. It's just to much. I'm not quitting, that's not a part of who I am but I also don't want to hold anybody back or be a burden ya know. I appreciate you asking me this though. At least you didn't call me a bad. The rest of these assholes would rather call me a bad , and critique my play instead of the raid itself. You sir get no caps rampage

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:36 PM ----------



    I think that should tell you the fights are all overtuned but apparently we live in a crazy world now where normal raiders just can't cut it anymore and the only raid content outside of lfr is for hardcores who min max everything.
    Please comment back in a few weeks with updates on whether or not you think Lei Shen Normal Mode is Overtuned.

  16. #1276
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    Nerfs would not be necessarily if the fight mechanics were simplier. Take example Molten Core. No nerfs were ever done there afaik because the fight mechanics were simple. Tank and spank and the occasional RUN.

    Nowadays all bosses have 20 abilities, so there's bound to be some that are overtuned.
    Tank and spanks are not fun. That's why blizzard stopped making fights like that.

  17. #1277
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    I have looked at your logs and your raid dps is really great! From the looks of it you are in a raid that has a brute force style mentality where they have probably never had problems in the past as they come in and blow the shit up uber fast! I was in a guild like that as well in ICC and it made everythign up to Heroic litch king pretty easy.

    This tier is not overtuned but the focus and design was on MECHANICS not brute forcing like many encounters in the past. When the raid was released there was a watercooler from the devs explaining they wanted mechanical checks and for a group like yours this will probably cause more issues than you ever saw in the past! Its not that its overtuned it's just tuned differently than a dps check! I gave links to our raiders and logs because we are very equaly geared when comparing our raid teams. We had allot of issue with Garalon DPS check and elegon dps check and I'm sure that probably was not an issue for your group at all... however our strengh thus far is execution and as such this tier we have been having allot of sucess due to the focus on mechanic > brute force dps!

    Proof is in the pudding to be honest... I'm in an extreemly casual guild we raid 1 day a week 4 hours total. I'm not sure how much more casual you can get and if we are progressing just fine then I just can't agree that the tier is over tuned!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    . In between finals and assignments coming due I have this extra weight .
    Please for the love of god stop calling us kids if Finals and assignments are lifes extra weight to you! I won't discredit that it's a stressful time when you are in school but many of us commenting did that years ago! Just becuase we dissagree with you dose not mean we are kids... case in point im 33, maried, have a child, house etc!

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 08:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    Nerfs would not be necessarily if the fight mechanics were simplier. Take example Molten Core. No nerfs were ever done there afaik because the fight mechanics were simple. Tank and spank and the occasional RUN.

    Nowadays all bosses have 20 abilities, so there's bound to be some that are overtuned.
    The main issue I see more often than not is not the mechanics but a bad decision on what strat to use! A 10 man hard core guild that tosses out a strat vid should be used a s aguide but all too many times a raid leader will get so hung up on " OMG I SAW UBERGULDPWNERS do RGRGRGRGRG on Mageara and it looked soo simple were doing it the easy way like them" 20 wipes later same RL is raging on "why are you bads dieing to simple shit didnt you look at the vid???" Problem is they dont have the same gear to brute force the encountre with that strat so they say the encountre is super hard or overtuned instead of figuring out what works for them and maybe playing to there strengths!

  18. #1278
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    I keep saying it and I'll keep saying it. The guild I raid with and myself have all raided heroics in the past. We've got server first yogg saron players in that guild. We've got experienced raiders. WE've got good raids dps and good execution. We WILL TRIVIALIZE Megara with more gear but that isn't really the point. All the wealth of experience this raid guild has and were all virtually in agreement that so far every fight this tier has felt like downing a heroic boss. This is all on NORMAL DIFFICULTY. Now theirs disagreement about wether that's a good thing or not but nobody questions that this tier is off the fucking wall for normal difficulty. We think we'll get lei shin under the wire but it'll be close depending on how soon 5.3 comes out. When 5.3 comes out we'll probably destroy everything. Gear upgrades will break most fights.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-04-19 at 08:26 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #1279
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    The main issue I see more often than not is not the mechanics but a bad decision on what strat to use! A 10 man hard core guild that tosses out a strat vid should be used a s aguide but all too many times a raid leader will get so hung up on " OMG I SAW UBERGULDPWNERS do RGRGRGRGRG on Mageara and it looked soo simple were doing it the easy way like them" 20 wipes later same RL is raging on "why are you bads dieing to simple shit didnt you look at the vid???" Problem is they dont have the same gear to brute force the encountre with that strat so they say the encountre is super hard or overtuned instead of figuring out what works for them and maybe playing to there strengths!
    Very true. We personally did B-R-B-G-B-G-B Because it reduces alot of raid dmg till the very end and helps the whole thing be a bit more stable. It took us quite a few wipes trying different orders till this one stuck, now we do it every week and one shot it with this strat.

  20. #1280
    I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen any Normal Mode Durumu is overtuned threads yet. Getting my popcorn ready for that one.

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