Holy mother 10man nerf

[bals]

The hotfix increased the difficulty of the encounter (dps wise) as most guilds would get the boss to roughly 90% before the majority of the raid is mutated. That's not gonna happen anymore when you're doing 25% damage.
The nerf is justified, as it's only slight and *should* compensate for the damage hotfix.
That being said, I've not seen the health values (will tonight) so who knows just how *slight* the nerf was.

not to mention several guilds were just completely ignoring the fully mutated mechanic and just killing the boss

[Raxxed]

not to mention several guilds were just completely ignoring the fully mutated mechanic and just killing the boss

Zerg strat required more dps than normal strat to kill it, not to mention healing through ~13 stacks of mutation.
That being said, it's a good thing they removed the strat. The fight is awful, but it's less awful when done properly.

[Squirl]

which means the fight can be done by 10 disc priest..... i need to try this

More like 3 or 4 Disc priests.

[Captaincrab]

Kind of surprised they wasted time nerfing Garalon, that fight was a tight enrage for that tier for sure, but with the ToT LFR and the 10% Reduced health I can't imagine many groups were still stuck on it, plus increasing it by 5 minutes means there's no real enrage at all, don't think that'd be possible to hit with a full group regardless of DPS.

As for the ToT nerfs, kind of surprised they nerfed Horridon again, and I'm really surprised that the nerf to the shell move speed on Tortos isn't happening in 25 man. Seems like if the speed of the shells is a problem it'd be a problem on both 10 and 25.

Garalon if you go in with inexperience or vastly undergeared players trying to catch up on gear was just one of those where you either 3 healed comfortably and prayed to god your 5 dps knew how to dish out the damage while dealing with all the other things going on... Or 2 healed hectically. 12 minute enrage just means if you can manage the mechanics properly you'll just wipe if you are really really slow and fill out the room with pheromones.

As for the Shell speed... It is far far far far... more likely you'll have a good snare source (like a Warlock) on 25 man than it is on ten man. Also far more likely you'll have a good mix of dps and dps spread all across the room to get the kicks on 25 than it is on 10.

[Lysah]

They don't want DPS races in normal modes, they said if a normal raid group can execute the mechanics properly they should be able to down the boss. Gear checks and rotation checks will come in when guilds attempt heroic modes.

[Deleted]

The required DPS for normal mode Garalon is now ~272k raid dps. The highest parse for that fight is just 60k DPS shy.

Wonder if you could 5 man him now

[Ariluz]

As for the Shell speed... It is far far far far... more likely you'll have a good snare source (like a Warlock) on 25 man than it is on ten man. Also far more likely you'll have a good mix of dps and dps spread all across the room to get the kicks on 25 than it is on 10.

If you don't have a reliable snare on the Turtles on 10 man, you probably don't have a very balanced comp. Even then, its not really that big of a deal if you don't have a snare on the turtles. I still don't get why bats got nerfed on 10 man, since they're dead pretty much all of the fight and do no damage. IMO, the fight gets a little bit more hectic on 25 man <20% with there being a lot less space to navigate after quake stomp.

[Squirl]

Wonder if you could 5 man him now

Most certainly 5 man. Could probably even 3 man if two people can soak cleaves, maybe even 2 man.

[Deleted]

I think it's okey. The 10 man player base is overall less skilled and should't spend their time wiping.

Infracted; Don't call people less skilled, if you don't give a reason why you think so. (by Sonnillon)

[ttak82]

lol wut madness is this?

Blizz should have increased damage done to garalon by legs from 50% up to 60 to 70%. That way ppl would still have to use the mechanic and it would have been a nerf.

Cant comment on ToT nerfs as im unsubbed since december.

[ttak82]

Alt 10 man raids will become much more popular (at least on my server they will).

Alt 10 Man raids have always been popular. Even on a dying realm like Vashj eu (cataclysm patch 4.3) there were groups doing 2 additional alt runs per week for DS, including Hc bosses. Of course the incremental nerf system helps too. The major issue was finding that last tank/healer from trade chat to get a group going.

The same realm in patch 3.3 had a lot of 25 man ICC pugs going on but those were different times [better gear, separate lockout etc].

[Deja Thoris]

I think this is a good change. Theres been a lot of threads recently with people struggling on horridon. Make it a bit easier so those people can move on. No skin off my nose, I'm far past the point where I care, it just makes farm bosses easier.
I know they will get stuck on Megara or w/e in a week or 3 but at least they are seeing stuff, and crucially, have chance to gear a bit.

The garalon change is just funny. It doesn't really matter though.

[Deleted]

I always like to do this in answer to that kind of people: http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/.../Group+Therapy

Yeah Group Therapy is totally a normal 2-day/week raiding guild... please >.>

[Deleted]

About bloody time.

[Hyve]

The Council of Elders fight I can understand, as that was over tuned (albeit not massively) for 10 Man. The Durumu changes effect both 10 & 25, and quite frankly is a welcome change. The fight is simple and easy enough, but that maze is just annoying. The encounter should be made a little tougher, but the maze should be made easier to see.

The Horridon changes I believe these are old, but I saw this nerf as unneeded. Horridon is not a hard fight if your DPS are focused on switching and making the most of themselves. I've seen plenty of guilds complain about him, while their Logs show 3 DPS are sat purely on the boss the entire fight.

The Tortos change, I don't understand. The point of the turtles is to pose a challenge, they're meant to move fast so you don't have much time to sit idle and just heal / DPS. The Bat changes also annoy me. The use of Tank & Healer Cooldowns (when managed right) is more then enough to overcome them...

These nerfs don't do much other then cement the old view that 10 Man is an easier version of raiding.

[DarkPhoenix]

These nerfs don't do much other then cement the old view that 10 Man is an easier version of raiding.

Uhhh no it doesn't? What it PROVES is that the encounters were overtuned for 10s

[Deleted]

The Council of Elders fight I can understand, as that was over tuned (albeit not massively) for 10 Man. The Durumu changes effect both 10 & 25, and quite frankly is a welcome change. The fight is simple and easy enough, but that maze is just annoying. The encounter should be made a little tougher, but the maze should be made easier to see.

The Horridon changes I believe these are old, but I saw this nerf as unneeded. Horridon is not a hard fight if your DPS are focused on switching and making the most of themselves. I've seen plenty of guilds complain about him, while their Logs show 3 DPS are sat purely on the boss the entire fight.

The Tortos change, I don't understand. The point of the turtles is to pose a challenge, they're meant to move fast so you don't have much time to sit idle and just heal / DPS. The Bat changes also annoy me. The use of Tank & Healer Cooldowns (when managed right) is more then enough to overcome them...

These nerfs don't do much other then cement the old view that 10 Man is an easier version of raiding.

Horridon is pretty damn difficult if you have ilvl lower than 500 accross the raid, tortos suffers from comp issues - it isn't all that difficult to have a ten man with no real ability to slow the whirls down.

Realistically, if blizzard want the average would be raider to do normal modes there needs to be even more nerfing. Guess we'll see.

[Hyve]

Horridon is pretty damn difficult if you have ilvl lower than 500 accross the raid.

Not true. We managed to down him after around 10 tries, and the raids average iLevel was around 490. I was on my Death Knight Tank at the time, which had an iLevel of 480, and some of our DPS had fairly low iLevel as well.

What we had to do though was be smart about how we did things. We positioned the boss so that all adds could be nuked down right next to him for extra Cleave damage, along with using Bloodlust on the third door, to get us through that area.

I'm not claiming that if we can do it, all should be able to, but sometimes people need to really think about how to go about their boss encounters. We spent ages wiping on Council of Elders because we just sucked at it, everything was going wrong, but now, we 1 (maybe 2) shot it every time because we're confident in the encounter.

tortos suffers from comp issues - it isn't all that difficult to have a ten man with no real ability to slow the whirls down.

There really isn't much of a comp you can run that doesn't have some form of capability when it comes to what has been nerfed. The movement speed isn't going to be hugely beneficial to a Melee DPS heavy comp, due to the knock back being the most annoying part of them, and the bat damage can be mitigated by Tank & Healer cooldowns, of which every Tank & Healer has some.

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 10:28 AM ----------

Uhhh no it doesn't? What it PROVES is that the encounters were overtuned for 10s

Were over tuned. Now they're easier then their 25 Man counter-parts. Realisitically though, do you expect the Official 10 Man Bashing Team to look at it from that angle?

[Deleted]

Very sad..

We're a casual guild who raid 2 times a week, and we've managed to kill 5/12 already.. I don't think a nerf was needed at all.

[Deleted]

I woke up early since my neigbours like to drill the damn walls in the morning, but this Garalon changes really made my mood for today. Haha