Holy mother 10man nerf

[Osmeric]

You've lost all objectivity and aren't open to listening, at all.

This is why I try to stick with the stats. It's always tempting to extrapolate from personal circumstances, but that's very dangerous, regardless of where you stand on the issues.

[kamuimac]

I;m doing these fights on normal and we downed meg last week. Last pull of the night. Half the raid wiped. Screen shot at the end. You'd think we'd downed the last boss in the heroic tier or something. It's fucking horseshit and calling it the appropriate tuning is ignorant in the extreme.

I can understand this very well cause its almost as if i saw my first kill on that boss when reading that. There is just so much shit going on everywhere in ToT even compared to previous tier :/ so much unforgiving mechanics. I understand perfeckly why unforgiving 1 shot mechanics may be good for HC raiding - but the boss kill count shows a deep fall in normal mode when u compare it to previus tier in the same time bracket that the nerfs are justified and im sure we will see some more nerfs in next few weeks - for sure on maegera :/

[Femoris]

You must be fucking kidding me? I posted the WoL earlier in the thread. We killed it this week. IT'S NOT FUCKING EASY don't you get it? We did EVERYTHING YOU FUCKING LISTED and we only killed him at the last pull of the night, with half the raid fucking dead. We studied. WE came prepared. The fight is just overtuned. I'm raiding with players who have raided normals and heroics for YEARS, who raided in tbc and we've got TWO DEATH'S DEMISE PLAYERS IN OUR RAID (realm first defeats of yogg saron) and were all pretty much in agreement THAT THESE FIGHTS ARE FUCKING OVERTUNED FOR NORMAL. When we killed Meg you'd think we'd down a heroic boss or something. The relief was palpable.

Not calling them overtuned is silly. It ignores the statistics and the reality of these bosses. But what's the fucking point? Arguing with you people is like arguing with creationists. You present evidence. They plug their ears. You scream and holler at them. They plug their ears. The universe could collapse around you and you would say nope not happening raid tiers are tuned fine. I'd rather be arguing evolution to christians than dealing with this.

your wol parse shows two people died

21:56:05.567 Dhcp [21:56:02.827] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 136500
[21:56:03.827] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 97500
[21:56:04.847] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 82113 (O: 15387) (more)

21:58:01.596 Erexshun [21:57:59.216] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 44200
[21:57:59.996] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 75448 (A: 1902)
[21:58:01.246] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 70642 (O: 6708) (more)

you to flaming cinders and a warrior to rampage. in your wol it show you using holy prism instand of hammer of light. maybe my understand of pallies is limited but wouldn't hammer of light be more useful on this fight that prism for the rampage damage. also you stated this fight is a dps race but if thats the cause why were people 4 healing it the first week to down it?

[Glorious Leader]

your wol parse shows two people died

21:56:05.567 Dhcp [21:56:02.827] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 136500
[21:56:03.827] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 97500
[21:56:04.847] Flaming Head Cinders Dhcp 82113 (O: 15387) (more)

21:58:01.596 Erexshun [21:57:59.216] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 44200
[21:57:59.996] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 75448 (A: 1902)
[21:58:01.246] Megaera Rampage Erexshun 70642 (O: 6708) (more)

you to flaming cinders and a warrior to rampage. in your wol it show you using holy prism instand of hammer of light. maybe my understand of pallies is limited but wouldn't hammer of light be more useful on this fight that prism for the rampage damage. also you stated this fight is a dps race but if thats the cause why were people 4 healing it the first week to down it?

The log is incorrect or more likely the boss died just as we ate another flaming pile of green shit on the ground. After the boss was dead we had 4 or 5 of us down. Potentially hammer is better for rampage but the entire fight isn't about rampages, in fact on my opinion rampage is the easiest part to heal. Everyone is stacked and we have cooldowns set up for that. The after rampage phase where the green shit doesn't stop is the more healing intensive and the more dps intensive really.

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:28 PM ----------

You're the clown on the forum at the moment:
Reasonable poster: "You're doing it wrong"
You: "WE BARELY SCAPED BY WITH 5 PEOPLE DEAD ITS OVERTUNED, I KNOW BETTER!!!!"

Reasonable poster: "The spells you were suggesting aren't shit, you need to change your healing habits"
You: "I'VE BEEN PLAYING SINCE VANILLA, I DON'T NEED CLOWNS TELLING ME HOW TO PLAY EVEN THOUGH AN AVERAGE PERSON WITH A LOWER ILEVEL HEALS 40% MORE THAN ME!!!"

I'm done responding to you here, you've lost all objectivity and aren't open to listening, at all.

Good I'm glad your done because you didn't have a fucking leg to stand on anyway. I guess every other fuckign raid who can't down that boss and is struggling and even the developer who nerfed the piss out of many of the fights is just doing it wrong. EVERYBODY ELSE IS ALWAYS DOING IT WRONG but not you. Well I've got some bad fucking news for you. their are far more people "doing it wrong" than you doing it right and I expect that we'll see more nerfs in the future because of that.

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:29 PM ----------

And yet Megaera as one of the lowest wipe count of the entire raid. But when data doesn't concur with you, just ignore it right ? Something you don't allow other people to do.

Can't be you or your raid, it HAS to be blizzard.

This is our first kill : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j...?s=5942&e=6492
Pally was 504 ilvl

Notice the fight length, yeah, it was 9 minutes for us. And healers weren't oom and we didnt all wipe.

I expect the wipe count to rise quite steadily now that they nerfed the first 4 bosses and made them CLOSER TO NORMAL. I'm not ignoring the statistic, I'm disputing the conclusions you make because of them.

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:31 PM ----------

So you took the strat the other guilds that were more progressed than you used and took it as the holy grail? You realise you cna go GRGRBGR and shave a fuckton of green dmg in the end right?

As well since you seem to flame anyone contradicting you and tossing out how you know wtf to do I will present this

This is our Holy pallie 508 ilevel :
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...urrig/advanced

Per your link before this is yoru holy pallie with 504 Ilevel
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Dhcp/advanced

Here is our WOL healign done for megaera and as you can see he did 71k hps sustained
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...?s=6499&e=7011

This is your WOL to this weeks kill where you did 52k HPS sustained:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...=10339&e=10792

Im sorry but 4 ilevels dose not make a 20k hps difference! Thus I must assume its a L2p and strat issue that is not allowing you to perform properly!

O and case in point of classes not using everything in there tool box... No shattering throw from your war at all on the kill, no potion of the mogu, no heroic leap dmg to boss... This isnt hardcore raider stuff this is basic use your dps CD's when you are a dps role!

If it was overtuned we could not 9 man it in our gear FFS we don't even have drumu dead yet!

You can assume all you like I don't really care quite frankly. I don't need kids on forums telling me how to play the game when I've been able to play it adequatly and even better than adequalty in some cases for years. It's not an l2p issue, it's not a strat issue, it's a fucking shitty raid tuning issue. But you know what? keep telling good players they suck and see who you have left to raid with. This community is fucking disgusting. IT"S OVERTUNED and I don't care how good you fucking think you are or you actually are, expect more nerfs. Hell that fight nerfs itself with gear because it's a MASSIVE FUCKING GEAR CHECK.

[Deleted]

I expect the wipe count to rise quite steadily now that they nerfed the first 4 bosses and made them CLOSER TO NORMAL. I'm not ignoring the statistic, I'm disputing the conclusions you make because of them.

Oh i'm sure its gonna, but people have to get past tortos already, even though it's a lot easier now because turtles were almost the only problem there, but a big big one.

And then, coming from nerfed bosses, they are gonna hit a brickwall named Megaera, wipe, complain, and we'll see Meg being nerfed. Ji-Kun is a complete joke honestly so I don't think we'll see any fix on him.

And then people are gonna get past Nerfed-Meg and Ji-Kun, and hit a brick wall 10 times harder than Meg, named Durumu, and complain, and...

You get the idea

[Glorious Leader]

I can agree with you that normal is getting closer to heroic and that is because normal and heroic is inevidently bosses with close to the same mechanics and for heroic to be as hard as heroic raiders want it, its very hard to not make slightly harder normal bosses. This can be looked upon with different views because having harder heroic bosses i agree with and since i am a heroic raider myself i like it. At the same time this is hurting the overall raid scene because normals are getting harder at the same pace which only the normal raiders that have been normal raiders for a long time actually wants (note: this is from my personal experience so i cant say its the truth.)
What happens though when normals gets harder all the time is that the people that cant use enough time to keep up to date with what they need to will have to go to lfr and there is also the people that are completely new to raiding which will have close to no chance of actually raiding at either heroic level just because everything is getting harder. My conclusion is that as long as heroic raiders like me wants harder content the raiding scene will never grow again, it will slowly and painfully kill it self, probably wont happen in a few more tiers but it is definately happening as i see it.
My only question for you is that you seem to be one of those that still have the time to keep yourself up to date to be able to do normals and the fact that you have already killed megeara proves this now why are you just here to argue, I would understand if someone new to the game came and brought this up with some reasonable arguments, but seeing someone that have been raiding a lot come here just for the sake of arguing seems odd.

Easy solution. Design raids that aren't one size fits all. Current raids are designed with one size fits all mechanics and the only thing they do is tune numbers instead of actually looking at the fights from the perspective of the raid running them.

Why am I still arguing about this? Because I really didn't want to come back to the game to run hard mode raids. I wanted some beer league casual normals I could raid with friends and NOT leave players behind who can't keep up. I'm not coming here for the sake of arguing, i'm coming here because we had to leave people behind these tiers and I'm genuinely afraid that I will get left behind to. I used to think I was a pretty damn good paladin healer, good enough to heal normals in the past for sure and even heroics (in ICC and in Firelands) but this tier and the kids on this forum are apparently suggesting otherwise. Hell I'd be okay with being an average player but apparently I might not even be that. It's demoralizing. In between finals and assignments coming due I have this extra weight on top of me that apparently I'm no longer up to snuff not because I changed or I got worse but because the game just got to fucking hard. Nobody in the guild says it to me but I can read the writing on the wall. Or maybe I'm being paranoid I don't know. It's just to much. I'm not quitting, that's not a part of who I am but I also don't want to hold anybody back or be a burden ya know. I appreciate you asking me this though. At least you didn't call me a bad. The rest of these assholes would rather call me a bad , and critique my play instead of the raid itself. You sir get no caps rampage

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:36 PM ----------

Oh i'm sure its gonna, but people have to get past tortos already, even though it's a lot easier now because turtles were almost the only problem there, but a big big one.

And then, coming from nerfed bosses, they are gonna hit a brickwall named Megaera, wipe, complain, and we'll see Meg being nerfed. Ji-Kun is a complete joke honestly so I don't think we'll see any fix on him.

And then people are gonna get past Nerfed-Meg and Ji-Kun, and hit a brick wall 10 times harder than Meg, named Durumu, and complain, and...

You get the idea

I think that should tell you the fights are all overtuned but apparently we live in a crazy world now where normal raiders just can't cut it anymore and the only raid content outside of lfr is for hardcores who min max everything.

[Kuja]

Nerfs would not be necessarily if the fight mechanics were simplier. Take example Molten Core. No nerfs were ever done there afaik because the fight mechanics were simple. Tank and spank and the occasional RUN.

Nowadays all bosses have 20 abilities, so there's bound to be some that are overtuned.

[NeverStop]

Easy solution. Design raids that aren't one size fits all. Current raids are designed with one size fits all mechanics and the only thing they do is tune numbers instead of actually looking at the fights from the perspective of the raid running them.

Why am I still arguing about this? Because I really didn't want to come back to the game to run hard mode raids. I wanted some beer league casual normals I could raid with friends and NOT leave players behind who can't keep up. I'm not coming here for the sake of arguing, i'm coming here because we had to leave people behind these tiers and I'm genuinely afraid that I will get left behind to. I used to think I was a pretty damn good paladin healer, good enough to heal normals in the past for sure and even heroics (in ICC and in Firelands) but this tier and the kids on this forum are apparently suggesting otherwise. Hell I'd be okay with being an average player but apparently I might not even be that. It's demoralizing. In between finals and assignments coming due I have this extra weight on top of me that apparently I'm no longer up to snuff not because I changed or I got worse but because the game just got to fucking hard. Nobody in the guild says it to me but I can read the writing on the wall. Or maybe I'm being paranoid I don't know. It's just to much. I'm not quitting, that's not a part of who I am but I also don't want to hold anybody back or be a burden ya know. I appreciate you asking me this though. At least you didn't call me a bad. The rest of these assholes would rather call me a bad , and critique my play instead of the raid itself. You sir get no caps rampage

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:36 PM ----------



I think that should tell you the fights are all overtuned but apparently we live in a crazy world now where normal raiders just can't cut it anymore and the only raid content outside of lfr is for hardcores who min max everything.

Please comment back in a few weeks with updates on whether or not you think Lei Shen Normal Mode is Overtuned.

[cabyio]

Nerfs would not be necessarily if the fight mechanics were simplier. Take example Molten Core. No nerfs were ever done there afaik because the fight mechanics were simple. Tank and spank and the occasional RUN.

Nowadays all bosses have 20 abilities, so there's bound to be some that are overtuned.

Tank and spanks are not fun. That's why blizzard stopped making fights like that.

[Odina]

I have looked at your logs and your raid dps is really great! From the looks of it you are in a raid that has a brute force style mentality where they have probably never had problems in the past as they come in and blow the shit up uber fast! I was in a guild like that as well in ICC and it made everythign up to Heroic litch king pretty easy.

This tier is not overtuned but the focus and design was on MECHANICS not brute forcing like many encounters in the past. When the raid was released there was a watercooler from the devs explaining they wanted mechanical checks and for a group like yours this will probably cause more issues than you ever saw in the past! Its not that its overtuned it's just tuned differently than a dps check! I gave links to our raiders and logs because we are very equaly geared when comparing our raid teams. We had allot of issue with Garalon DPS check and elegon dps check and I'm sure that probably was not an issue for your group at all... however our strengh thus far is execution and as such this tier we have been having allot of sucess due to the focus on mechanic > brute force dps!

Proof is in the pudding to be honest... I'm in an extreemly casual guild we raid 1 day a week 4 hours total. I'm not sure how much more casual you can get and if we are progressing just fine then I just can't agree that the tier is over tuned!

. In between finals and assignments coming due I have this extra weight .

Please for the love of god stop calling us kids if Finals and assignments are lifes extra weight to you! I won't discredit that it's a stressful time when you are in school but many of us commenting did that years ago! Just becuase we dissagree with you dose not mean we are kids... case in point im 33, maried, have a child, house etc!

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 08:04 PM ----------

Nerfs would not be necessarily if the fight mechanics were simplier. Take example Molten Core. No nerfs were ever done there afaik because the fight mechanics were simple. Tank and spank and the occasional RUN.

Nowadays all bosses have 20 abilities, so there's bound to be some that are overtuned.

The main issue I see more often than not is not the mechanics but a bad decision on what strat to use! A 10 man hard core guild that tosses out a strat vid should be used a s aguide but all too many times a raid leader will get so hung up on " OMG I SAW UBERGULDPWNERS do RGRGRGRGRG on Mageara and it looked soo simple were doing it the easy way like them" 20 wipes later same RL is raging on "why are you bads dieing to simple shit didnt you look at the vid???" Problem is they dont have the same gear to brute force the encountre with that strat so they say the encountre is super hard or overtuned instead of figuring out what works for them and maybe playing to there strengths!

[Glorious Leader]

I keep saying it and I'll keep saying it. The guild I raid with and myself have all raided heroics in the past. We've got server first yogg saron players in that guild. We've got experienced raiders. WE've got good raids dps and good execution. We WILL TRIVIALIZE Megara with more gear but that isn't really the point. All the wealth of experience this raid guild has and were all virtually in agreement that so far every fight this tier has felt like downing a heroic boss. This is all on NORMAL DIFFICULTY. Now theirs disagreement about wether that's a good thing or not but nobody questions that this tier is off the fucking wall for normal difficulty. We think we'll get lei shin under the wire but it'll be close depending on how soon 5.3 comes out. When 5.3 comes out we'll probably destroy everything. Gear upgrades will break most fights.

[cabyio]

The main issue I see more often than not is not the mechanics but a bad decision on what strat to use! A 10 man hard core guild that tosses out a strat vid should be used a s aguide but all too many times a raid leader will get so hung up on " OMG I SAW UBERGULDPWNERS do RGRGRGRGRG on Mageara and it looked soo simple were doing it the easy way like them" 20 wipes later same RL is raging on "why are you bads dieing to simple shit didnt you look at the vid???" Problem is they dont have the same gear to brute force the encountre with that strat so they say the encountre is super hard or overtuned instead of figuring out what works for them and maybe playing to there strengths!

Very true. We personally did B-R-B-G-B-G-B Because it reduces alot of raid dmg till the very end and helps the whole thing be a bit more stable. It took us quite a few wipes trying different orders till this one stuck, now we do it every week and one shot it with this strat.

[NeverStop]

I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen any Normal Mode Durumu is overtuned threads yet. Getting my popcorn ready for that one.

[cabyio]

I keep saying it and I'll keep saying it. The guild I raided with and myself have all raided heroics in the past. We've got server first yogg saron players in that guild. We've got experienced raiders. WE've got good raids dps and good execution. We WILL TRIVIALIZE Megara with more gear but that isn't really the point. All the wealth of experience this raid guild has and were all virtually in agreement that so far every fight this tier has felt like downing a heroic boss. This is all on NORMAL DIFFICULTY. Now theirs disagreement about wether that's a good thing or not but nobody questions that this tier is off the fucking wall for normal difficulty. We think we'll get lei shin under the wire but it'll be close depending on how soon 5.3 comes out. When 5.3 comes out we'll probably destroy everything. Gear upgrades will break most fights.

You keep saying this and I believe you. All I know is my group are not experienced heroic raiders by any means, just people who are lucky to get through normals on most tiers, and we are 11/12 atm. So....

[Deleted]

I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen any Normal Mode Durumu is overtuned threads yet. Getting my popcorn ready for that one.

People aren't on durumu yet, they're on tortos, pretty soon mega, they'll be on durumu in a month, you have time to stock up buckets :P.

[Odina]

I keep saying it and I'll keep saying it. The guild I raided with and myself have all raided heroics in the past. We've got server first yogg saron players in that guild. We've got experienced raiders. WE've got good raids dps and good execution. We WILL TRIVIALIZE Megara with more gear but that isn't really the point. All the wealth of experience this raid guild has and were all virtually in agreement that so far every fight this tier has felt like downing a heroic boss. This is all on NORMAL DIFFICULTY. Now theirs disagreement about wether that's a good thing or not but nobody questions that this tier is off the fucking wall for normal difficulty. We think we'll get lei shin under the wire but it'll be close depending on how soon 5.3 comes out. When 5.3 comes out we'll probably destroy everything. Gear upgrades will break most fights.

I'm sure you will trivialize the fight with more gear and my point is not to say you bad players! My point is that you can trivialize that fight right now with the gear you have with the CORRECT STRAT! Our guild has the same gear as yours, we raid only 1 day a week and we thought mageara was a brick wall night one and people were demoralized when we kept getting to the last head and getting WTF raped by green shit all over. Came back next week change ONE head color in the rotation and BAM we pull we killed it and then we pull out a 9 man kill of it this week!


I will be the first to admit... if you go in with a 25 man strat, or a 10 man comp strat that does not compliment your raid the boss will feel like a heroic overtuned boss! You wont hear me argue that ever...but if your not willing to rethink your strat and look at it from a different POV then why should blizz nerf it for you when others like myself are steam rolling it as is with a correct strat for our team? I would seriously sugest that you try doing it the GRGRBGR way the next lockout you will see that one blue head changes everythign for healers at the end and is why we changed it up!

None of the fights have felt close to as hard as yogg 0 was. That was a true F you overtuned heroic that kicked your ass if one person fucked up and there was only one strat for that and thats the reason I will always rock the deaths demise title!

[Sesshou]

This tier is not overtuned but the focus and design was on MECHANICS not brute forcing like many encounters in the past. When the raid was released there was a watercooler from the devs explaining they wanted mechanical checks and for a group like yours this will probably cause more issues than you ever saw in the past! Its not that its overtuned it's just tuned differently than a dps check! I gave links to our raiders and logs because we are very equaly geared when comparing our raid teams. We had allot of issue with Garalon DPS check and elegon dps check and I'm sure that probably was not an issue for your group at all... however our strengh thus far is execution and as such this tier we have been having allot of sucess due to the focus on mechanic > brute force dps!

Thats exactly the problem. The fights aren't overtuned really at all. It is just that a lot of normal mode players are not use to an early boss in the tier being as mechanically intricate as an end boss like Empress. Then rather learn to adjust to mechanics, they want to brute force them like they see heroic guilds doing (or want hp nerfs like council and horridon are getting) so they never really have to learn how to deal with the mechanics.

Like Mag... that is really, really easy. But if you go and kill green every other head, yeah you're gonna take a crap ton of damage. For some guilds, that was trivial which made the annoyance of having some one kite the blue beam not worth it (incidentally that only really works on 10m because the damage for the poison bomb is over adjusted but whatever). Doing red and green only is essentially your raid trying to ignore 2 mechanics: the blue beam as you get none, but also the green as you are adopting a 'whatever, we will just heal through it' plan. Don't be shocked when ignoring multiple mechanics doesn't net your guild a new kill in a short span of time.

[Glorious Leader]

I'm sure you will trivialize the fight with more gear and my point is not to say you bad players! My point is that you can trivialize that fight right now with the gear you have with the CORRECT STRAT! Our guild has the same gear as yours, we raid only 1 day a week and we thought mageara was a brick wall night one and people were demoralized when we kept getting to the last head and getting WTF raped by green shit all over. Came back next week change ONE head color in the rotation and BAM we pull we killed it and then we pull out a 9 man kill of it this week!


I will be the first to admit... if you go in with a 25 man strat, or a 10 man comp strat that does not compliment your raid the boss will feel like a heroic overtuned boss! You wont hear me argue that ever...but if your not willing to rethink your strat and look at it from a different POV then why should blizz nerf it for you when others like myself are steam rolling it as is with a correct strat for our team? I would seriously sugest that you try doing it the GRGRBGR way the next lockout you will see that one blue head changes everythign for healers at the end and is why we changed it up!

None of the fights have felt close to as hard as yogg 0 was. That was a true F you overtuned heroic that kicked your ass if one person fucked up and there was only one strat for that and thats the reason I will always rock the deaths demise title!

We tried killing the blues. it sucks. THe dps spend more time running from the heads then they actually do killing the bosses and we spend more time healing and we eventually run oom anyway. I'm a big fan of keeping it simple. All the strats that kill the blue heads complicate this fight enourmesly by adding another layer of difficulty and further mechanics to over come. RGRGRGRGRG worked for us and it's only because of a fucking massive gear check that this fight wasn't even easier to down. So yes these fights are massive gear checks and they all assume your raid has downed the previous tier in Blizzards futile and vein attempt to bring back tiered raiding.

[Sesshou]

When 5.3 comes out we'll probably destroy everything. Gear upgrades will break most fights.

So what is the problem exactly? The tier has to last people beyond 5.3... Obviously it would be really dumb to tune the tier so that the vast majority is done with their content (meaning normal mode guilds are all done with normal and heroic mode guilds are all done with heroic) before 5.3 and then have them wait months for 5.4 with nothing to do.

The fights are fine. You get extra gear initially from vp and maybe lfr and then with 5.3 you get vp upgrades. These will gradually help your raid out and is why there doesn't really need to be sweeping nerfs of anything.

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 08:35 PM ----------

We tried killing the blues. it sucks. THe dps spend more time running from the heads then they actually do killing the bosses and we spend more time healing and we eventually run oom anyway. I'm a big fan of keeping it simple. All the strats that kill the blue heads complicate this fight enourmesly by adding another layer of difficulty and further mechanics to over come. RGRGRGRGRG worked for us and it's only because of a fucking massive gear check that this fight wasn't even easier to down. So yes these fights are massive gear checks and they all assume your raid has downed the previous tier in Blizzards futile and vein attempt to bring back tiered raiding.

Uh yeah... when you purposely choose to ignore mechanics, the fight will end up placing far more emphasis on the "gear check." You're doing that to yourselves... don't come whining here about overtuned fights when you purposely do it in a way that requires more gear.

[Glorious Leader]

So what is the problem exactly? The tier has to last people beyond 5.3... Obviously it would be really dumb to tune the tier so that the vast majority is done with their content (meaning normal mode guilds are all done with normal and heroic mode guilds are all done with heroic) before 5.3 and then have them wait months for 5.4 with nothing to do.

The fights are fine. You get extra gear initially from vp and maybe lfr and then with 5.3 you get vp upgrades. These will gradually help your raid out and is why there doesn't really need to be sweeping nerfs of anything.

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 08:35 PM ----------



Uh yeah... when you purposely choose to ignore mechanics, the fight will end up placing far more emphasis on the "gear check." You're doing that to yourselves... don't come whining here about overtuned fights when you purposely do it in a way that requires more gear.

Because actually doing the fight the way they intend actually makes the fights even harder. That's how we got by council pre nerf to. We stacked the bosses up and just cleave them the fuck down. Doing it the actual way Blizzard intended would be a massive shit fest. Fights are overtuned from every way you look at it. Doing them properly or zerging the fuck out of them.

The fights aren't fine. They are over tuned and are probably tuned under the assumption that the previous tier was all completed and maybe eveon some heroics were done. It wouldn't be "dumb" to tune the normal tier so that normal raiders could complete it around 5.3 or just after that. It would make total fucking sense. At that point I would potentially try some heroic bosses. At this rate I doubt we'll get that far in.