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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by I-like-chocolate-milk View Post
    stopped reading there
    Its funny because if it wasn't GC coming forward and being the designers community front it would be someone else. That someone else would be hated instead of GC. You don't hate GC because of 'where this game is going', you hate him because hes the major front for the team and hes an easy target.

    You all talk as if GC is the only one designing things for WoW these days.

    EDIT: Let me ask you this; Which one of GC's recent decisions do you hate the most?
    I bet you you can't give me a straight answer because you have no idea what he actually decides.

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  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    That's so crazy. They try and add something that they suppose would be fun, and actually, I personally think it is. I'm like, oh, look at this, now that's a neat little idea, and then I go for the glyph. Fun stuff. Minor, but fun, nothing more that it's supposed to be.

    But then, a guy like yourself comes around and somehow manages to actually "despise" it and feel how it's diminishing his enjoyment of the game. I just so can't relate to that. It's remarkable, fascinating, really. I don't even know how one gets himself in such a mindset. I seriously ask myself how you people do it. It sure is tilting at windmills for Blizzard.
    It's pretty easy really. You have just been blinded by good old fashioned sleight of hand. The minor glyph system absolutely removes fun from the game. Before the glyph system we had access to ALL the fun useless spells at once. Now we only have 3 minor glyph slots at a time, that means you only get 3 vanity spells, instead of ALL of them. How do you not see that after he pointed it out? Remove minor glyphs, give access to all vanity spells of the class via segregated spell book.

  3. #183
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post

    You all talk as if GC is the only one designing things for WoW these days..
    "Lead Systems Designer"

    "Lead Systems"

    "Lead"

    I'm fairly sure most of the stuff that goes through, gets his stamp.

    So it's pretty valid to hate the guy. And considering how much "bloat" they've removed from the game, he deserves it.
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  4. #184
    Bring Back Volley!!!! I Miss Volley!!!!

  5. #185
    Stood in the Fire Satanous's Avatar
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    Think they should remove all move, make one move that does our full rotations worth of damage while patting us on the back for being super leet. A lot of the fun items in this game have dumb cds 1hr for a 3 min statue that does nothing and they remove fun non dps skills for no reason other than they could. it doesn't "take up ui room" if you just leave it in your book until you need it.

  6. #186
    Playing Rift, have over 9000 buttons on my rogue. Most are useless in a rotation, but they are fun and have nice graphics. I think the EJ crowd has too big an influence on the wow devs, since they want to axe anything that doesn't fit in an approved rotation for raids.

  7. #187
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faithshield View Post
    I think GC seriously needs to examine exactly what he means by 'bloat' and be more precise in its definition, because his and my definition are very different. For me, Hunter bloat does not come from skills like Eyes of the Beast, which are almost out of combat fun stuff, but rather from in combat cooldowns like Bestial Wrath, Focus Fire, Rapid Fire, Dire Beast, Readiness etc. Especially ones with short to medium cooldowns of 30-120 seconds. This is why my hunter alt has taken some passive talents just to reduce the clutter - and whether I had Eyes of the Beast or not would make no difference. Bloat is not the total number of spells a class has but how many buttons and cooldowns we have to manage while fighting.
    Bloat: When 4 of my minor glyphs modify Polymorph, a spell I already have like 4-5 other spells of, and one that I almost never cast outside of PvP, and when I do cast it, I hardly have the time to stare at the adorable critter I turned my vicious foe(s) into.
    Bloat: Besides the Suppression Chamber of BWL, Disarm Trap.
    Bloat: Adding new minor glyphs that add a literally worthless ability to "focus intently on a critter" or "contemplate about The Light". (I thought we were removing old abilities that were worthless; why are we now adding some?)
    Not Bloat: Eyes of the Beast.

    GC's retarded sometimes.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    this is not gonna change even if this was the removal of a combat skill.
    I clearly remember when volley was removed, the crying of that was so much that if we collected all the tears we could have made a river Nile 2.0
    Well if you remove Blizzard or Rain of Fire, people will miss it because its an awesome looking and fun spell and is quite unique in one's arsenal. Hunters used to have Aspect of the Monkey and Aspect of the Fox, and I don't hear anyone missing those
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  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Faithshield View Post
    Well if you remove Blizzard or Rain of Fire, people will miss it because its an awesome looking and fun spell and is quite unique in one's arsenal. Hunters used to have Aspect of the Monkey and Aspect of the Fox, and I don't hear anyone missing those
    Volley was exactly like Blizzard and they removed it because it "wasnt fun." It was the only ability we could use in melee range. Now its not so much of a problem but it also didnt need a target like multishot does which become annoying when you are AoEing lots of little things that die constantly. You have to keep tabbing to get a new target so you can keep up AoE. IMO thats not as fun as raining arrows from the sky on top of enemies.

    We dont miss monkey because we never used it and fox isnt necessary anymore that we can dps while moving in the only aspect we use anymore.

  10. #190
    Mechagnome Weirdbear's Avatar
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    I think it would have been cool if they reworked Hunter's Eye for the BMs as a swap that makes the hunter automated(trying to keep distance while doing some basic spells, like the pet does atm) and you turn into the pet with loads new spells acting almost like a druid in cat/bear form. The pet is then the main DPSer and the hunter gets slightly less DPS output.

  11. #191
    I agree with the point made by the OP, if not the sentiment behind it. Bloat is becoming a problem with a lot of classes when it comes to self-buffs on cooldowns. I don't like having to juggle 5 different short-term cooldowns alongside my ability rotation and whatever fight mechanics I'm having to deal with. It's gotten to a point where I'll take passive buffs wherever I can get them, even if they aren't as good.

  12. #192
    Volley and Multi-shot were sort of the same thing, but MS was decidedly inferior at the time. Did Blizzard cut MS? Nope, they chose to rework it and remove Volley instead because MS "seemed more hunter-y" and volley didn't really make much "sense". -- https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/21537-volley-/

    Still miss volley very much. :'(
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  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    "Lead Systems Designer"

    "Lead Systems"

    "Lead"

    I'm fairly sure most of the stuff that goes through, gets his stamp.

    So it's pretty valid to hate the guy. And considering how much "bloat" they've removed from the game, he deserves it.
    Systems Designer........ Hes not the Lead Game Designer/Director, hes a Systems designer. Hes 1 part of a massive cog wheel that works in unison. To assume that GC makes all of the shots and signs off everything is naive.

    Everyone has a boss and GC is definitely not the boss. Not sure why you think hes the only one calling the shots....

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  14. #194
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    It seems, in this case, removing eyes of the beast was a pointless waste of time.

    I really don't think anybody would have complained if it was left in, afterall, what was there to complain about, so you have some fun abilities that aren't really useful, so what? does leaving them in hurt anybody? seems like a pointless waste of effort removing the ability when obviously more people were going to be mad that it's gone than those who would have a problem with it being in the game.

    Don't paladins have a glyph ability that allows them to just pray to the light? is that not bloat? it's an ability, it goes in your spell book, just because it's a glyph doesn't really make it much different IMO.

  15. #195
    Pit Lord icausewipes's Avatar
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    1. control your pet into attacking someone in Tanaris.
    2. watch guards pound your pet and your victim.
    3. flee.
    4. rinse and repeat.
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  16. #196
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    Not sure why you think hes the only one calling the shots....
    Where did I say he was the only one?

    I said he puts his stamp on most of the stuff in the game, something that a systems designer does. So it's very valid to hate the guy.
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  17. #197
    Blizzard was about to face a crapstorm of bestiality lawsuits so EotB had to go as a result.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Noorri View Post
    While not requiring work, they are essentially unneccesary extra buttons. The definiton of bloat.
    Why see them as buttons? Pick one and stick with it if they are too much trouble. Oh...you do? Good.

    What you are missing is that paladins have tools for different situations. You may not like having a DPS CD available to you as a Protadin, but you don't have to use it, you don't have to hotkey it.

    It is not a useful tool in any situation other then if the target is running away at low health, which only happens in solo PVE. Wouldn't be a big loss and it can therefor be removed. The prot rotation is already packed almost full with abilities even without HOW, there will rarely be a situation where you don't have an ability to press.
    Rarely is not never. And as I said, you may not want it but other players might make use of it as they might, I dunno, want to do solo PvE in their tank spec?
    Again, if you don't use it...don't hotkey it. Bloat problem averted.

    I meant that it shouldn't. It's supposed to be a change list, not a list over how things work now.
    So - you want to remove a tool I and others find very useful....because you don't want to hotkey it? Lets not forget its also a racial ability.

    Because it adds 1 additional ability for everyone in the entire raid without beeing strictly necessary. Heathstones are currently the biggest bloat skill in the game.
    So...you want to remove part of a Warlocks raid utility because you don't like having to find a space for it on your keybars?

    I'm spotting a pattern here.

    Because they are useful in different situations. If you give people only one of them, they will complain about missing the other tool. So if we give them both in one button they can still have both abilities. Not perfect, but better then only taking one out.
    How about leaving both it?

    And this is getting rid of bloat by having one attack.
    No...I meant having one attack. Just...one attack. Consecrated Crusading Strike of Judgmental Righteous Wrath. Fills the role of HW, Consecration, Judgement, CS and HotR with a 30 yard range and all effect centered on the target. Has no CD and generates 1 HP.

    Apperantly you didn't see that I completly replaced CS with HotR. It's nice to have abilities that can react to different situations, but when you have to many you get bloat. It's pretty much the definition of bloat; so many abilities that is situationally useful that your action bars become filled with stuff you use only once in a blue moon.
    The trouble is you remove so many abilities that you end up just pressing one or two buttons. Once in a blue moon abilities are also OK because they often provide flavor and reward skill and class knowledge.

    No, you remove bloat by taking out stuff that serves functions that already exist in another skill (Crusader Strike, Divine Shield), some of the abilities that are really niche (Hand of Sacrifice, Blinding Light) and some of the abilities that simply serves no function to the Prot Paladin such as DPS increases (Hammer of Wrath, Avenging Wrath).
    Which means you are catering only to one single solitary playstyle and role. What about the player who, as an example, likes to do solo PvE in a tanking spec and actually gets some usage out of those DPS CDs?

    EJL

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    -snip-
    Which means you are catering only to one single solitary playstyle and role. What about the player who, as an example, likes to do solo PvE in a tanking spec and actually gets some usage out of those DPS CDs?

    EJL
    the bloat abilities ARE useful, that's the whole problem. There are too many useful abilities, or more specifically there are too many abilities that are response time dependent. Every single class I have has at least 30 hotkeyed buttons that NEED to be hotkeyed to play at maximum effectiveness, and still more abilities that I'm having to sacrifice having a hotkey, because 28 is the max I can control. This is bloat, because I can't reliably reach or hit more than 28 hotkeys, even 28 is a difficult stretch. A sweetspot would be 20 hotkeyed abilities. That's how many I can easily reach with a single keystroke. No more "Shift+V" "Shift+B" etc, which are now 2 keys. Abilities like Swipe are bloat, mesh it into Thrash, done. Abilities like Slice N Dice, or Savage roar are bloat, and NOBODY wants them. I don't think the bloat problem is yet out of control if all you did was PvE, I believe I could macro every class in PvE to under 20 buttons, but most player do PvP, and PvP has TONS of situational abilities that NEED to be hotkeyed (if you want to play effectively)

    Just to give an example.
    Abilities hotkeyed for guardian spec.
    Incarnation, Cenarian ward, FF, Barksin, bearhug, PvP trinket, Thrash, Bash, travel form, bear form, maul, cyclone, enrage, warstomp, natures grasp, typhoon, wild charge, symbiosis, swipe, taunt, frenzied regeneration, mangle, skull bash, lacerate, berserk, rejuvination, savage defense, might of ursoc. 28, that's all I can cover with my hotkeys, other abilities that I would like to be able to hotkey but do not have enough reachable hotkeys. Innervate, stampeding roar, rebirth, tranquility, survival instincts, heart of the wild, hibernate, soothe, remove corruption, dash, catform. Additoinally entangling roots, wrath, moonfire, are all hotkeyed on the human form (as well as other abilities already mentioned on the bear bar, and naturally cat abilties such as maim, pounce, etc are all on the cat bar)
    This IS a problem. Bloat abilities are abilities that I have either hotkeyed or would like to hotkey for some random situation where response time is a factor, since everything not hokeyed needs to be clicked.

    My resto spec is even worse.

  20. #200
    Fun?! Takes time out of trying to pull off max theoretical dps!

    Blizzard streamlined the game. Which apparently means that you no longer have options to do things the way you like. Including role-playing.
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