Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
11
LastLast
  1. #161
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    6,092
    Quote Originally Posted by KenjiNitari View Post
    I loved t hat spell.
    As a Hunter I was so sad when it vanished, in fact there are many spells that I wish back, like the Warlock's Sense Demons, the Paladin's Sense Undead, (not to mention, diving a Sense Elementals spell to the Shaman, and perhaps a "enslave" kind of spell, like the Warlock and Death Knight has) I miss these spells and really want them back.
    I never understood why they removed these fun spells, considering they did a lot of work on the glyphs to allow for more "fun" with your spells.
    Thats what I despise about glyphs, your only allowed to have <---> this much fun, whereas without that crappy needless system (the lesser glyphs) , you could be having <-----------this much fun------------>

  2. #162
    Oh for whoever said that thing about finding a use:

    Screw you and your boring tunnelvision dps cooldowns only way of thinking.

    Ever heard of vanity spells?

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I loved that spell, having it back like a glyph would be nice
    My thoughts exactly!

  4. #164
    I loved Eyes of the Beast. If it came back as a glyph, would I would be so happy! I didn't get a Devilsaur in time on my hunter before it was removed, so I would love another chance to run around as a Dinosaur. :P


    Currently playing World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2, and the Mass Effect trilogy. Not at the same time, of course. I'm not an octopus.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    And at the same time it was a nice, flavorsome ability that could have been reworked.
    I agree in theory, but reworked how?
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Seals do require work? Removal? Perhaps.
    While not requireing work, they are essentially unneccesary extra buttons. The definiton of bloat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Yes. You don't have to have it on your bar, but its a useful tool in many situations and it prevents the rotation being too empty at times.
    It is not a useful tool in any situation other then if the target is running away at low health, which only happens in solo PVE. Wouldn't be a big loss and it can therefor be removed. The prot rotation is already packed almost full with abilities even without HOW, there will rarely be a situation where you don't have an ability to press.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    It works on quite a bit when I use it.
    I meant that it shouldn't. It's supposed to be a change list, not a list over how things work now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Why remove their group utility?
    Because it adds 1 additional ability for everyone in the entire raid without beeing strictly necessary. Heathstones are currently the biggest bloat skill in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The spells work in different ways and are useful in different roles and situations.
    Why not get rid of bloat by having one attack?
    Because they are useful in different situations. If you give people only one of them, they will complain about missing the other tool. So if we give them both in one button they can still have both abilities. Not perfect, but better then only taking one out. And this is getting rid of bloat by having one attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    And you end up reducing the paladins ability to react to different situations, you remove flavor, you remove skill in choosing the right ability for the job, you've gutted the resource system with the removal of CS....shall I go on?
    Apperantly you didn't see that I completly replaced CS with HotR. It's nice to have abilities that can react to different situations, but when you have to many you get bloat. It's pretty much the definition of bloat; so many abilities that is situationally useful that your action bars become filled with stuff you use only once in a blue moon. As for flavor, I think the Paladin will have plenty of flavor still. Some flavor will be lost when you remove bloat though, that is inevitable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    You don't remove bloat by removing abilities you personally don't like or which doesn't suit the way you, personally, play or address responsibilities or activities you take part in.
    No, you remove bloat by taking out stuff that serves functions that already exist in another skill (Crusader Strike, Divine Shield), some of the abilities that are really niche (Hand of Sacrifice, Blinding Light) and some of the abilities that simply serves no function to the Prot Paladin such as DPS increases (Hammer of Wrath, Avenging Wrath).
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    You want to reduce Protadins "bloat"? Then you need to actually work out a core rotation, determine what moves are mandatory and what are needed.

    Base rotation now is Build 3 HP and then use Finisher. How long does that take? How long do you want it to take?

    Protadins single target toolkit is - CS, HoW, Judgment, SotR.
    Protadins AoE toolkit - HotR, HW, Cons, AS.

    So - ST and AoE HP generator, Execute move, Ranged attack, a Multi-target attack, a ST finisher and 2 AoE moves.

    I can see a case that the Damage toolkit has gaps, never mind requires paring due to bloat. You would also remove utility, defensive abilities and CDs reducing your tanks ability to deal with incoming damage simply because you don't like some of the buttons. I think your suggestions require some more work and thought.

    EJL
    If Blizzard did all the changes I wrote, the only thing that would change in the base rotation would be that prot paladins would use HotR in place of Crusader Strike. That's it.

    As for reducing all the utility and defensive cooldowns, they are at this point bloat. Most bosses have abilities that essentially enforce the use of cooldowns because tanks have so many of them now. If we had less defensive cooldowns and utility cooldowns, Blizzard could change their encounter design to match it.

    And I have put though into it. As for work, this is a forum. I made a suggestion because I am currently unsatisfied with the massive amount of bloat that fills my action bars. It's Blizzards job to put work into it.

  6. #166
    I wouldn't eliminate Crusader Strike, I would eliminate Hammer of the Righteous. Probably Consecration too. If they want to design Paladins like Rogues, then they need to make Paladin AoE like Rogues' too. Give Divine Storm to Protection. Remove cooldown, greatly increase mana cost, have it apply five stacks of Censure. Bam, Paladin AoE design is done. The current model is overwrought, with needless delay that causes Paladin AoE to fall short on low health targets.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  7. #167
    I suppose that this is what GC meant when he said that it was so difficult to cut skills on hunters cause everytime they think of one it turns out to be a big favourite.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Thats what I despise about glyphs, your only allowed to have <---> this much fun, whereas without that crappy needless system (the lesser glyphs) , you could be having <-----------this much fun------------>
    That's so crazy. They try and add something that they suppose would be fun, and actually, I personally think it is. I'm like, oh, look at this, now that's a neat little idea, and then I go for the glyph. Fun stuff. Minor, but fun, nothing more that it's supposed to be.

    But then, a guy like yourself comes around and somehow manages to actually "despise" it and feel how it's diminishing his enjoyment of the game. I just so can't relate to that. It's remarkable, fascinating, really. I don't even know how one gets himself in such a mindset. I seriously ask myself how you people do it. It sure is tilting at windmills for Blizzard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinra1
    You know when men aren't listening to you and they have erect penises whilst looking up to the sky thinking of multiple sex positions?

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    I suppose that this is what GC meant when he said that it was so difficult to cut skills on hunters cause everytime they think of one it turns out to be a big favourite.
    that's because he's doing it wrong, plain and simple.

    if you remove a vanity skill that has nothing to do with combat, people who loved it will complain. not to mention it does NOTHING to help with the issue of having too many buttons to press.

    if you remove one of those "increase this for X seconds" CD and bake it's effect into another CD or just buff the rest to make up for it, hunters will get happy to have less buttons to press.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  10. #170
    I would say that they removed it because they found some exploits that were possible for it and couldn't be bothered fixing it. There is no reason to remove it otherwise, the tech is already there, it does no harm letting it stay.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiDragon91 View Post
    Not sure if serious or not..but Hunters have the LEAST hot keys..out of every damm Classes..1 to keep up focus..3-4 attacks as basic..2-3 from perks talent..and 3 traps..yeah..not sure if serious or not..
    Not sure if you are serious, hunters have around 30 active abilities.

    | Warrior Moderator | Protection Warrior Weakaura Group |

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    That's so crazy. They try and add something that they suppose would be fun, and actually, I personally think it is. I'm like, oh, look at this, now that's a neat little idea, and then I go for the glyph. Fun stuff. Minor, but fun, nothing more that it's supposed to be.

    But then, a guy like yourself comes around and somehow manages to actually "despise" it and feel how it's diminishing his enjoyment of the game. I just so can't relate to that. It's remarkable, fascinating, really. I don't even know how one gets himself in such a mindset. I seriously ask myself how you people do it. It sure is tilting at windmills for Blizzard.
    he's not really wrong. back in vanilla, you always had access to all the vanity skills and aesthetic stuff your class had. now we have to choose 3 among them and trash the rest. sure, since the glyph system was implemented, we got a lot more aesthetic and fun stuff, but the weight of having to forsake some very cool stuff because some others would be more useful is heavy.

    as a warlock, I want to take glyph of felguard, soulwell and shadow bolt.

    I can't, because nightmares, falling meteor, eye of kilrog and enslave demon are more useful. (and I still have to choose one to discard)
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    that's because he's doing it wrong, plain and simple.

    if you remove a vanity skill that has nothing to do with combat, people who loved it will complain. not to mention it does NOTHING to help with the issue of having too many buttons to press.

    if you remove one of those "increase this for X seconds" CD and bake it's effect into another CD or just buff the rest to make up for it, hunters will get happy to have less buttons to press.
    this is not gonna change even if this was the removal of a combat skill.
    I clearly remember when volley was removed, the crying of that was so much that if we collected all the tears we could have made a river Nile 2.0

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    this is not gonna change even if this was the removal of a combat skill.
    I clearly remember when volley was removed, the crying of that was so much that if we collected all the tears we could have made a river Nile 2.0
    that's because volley was an useful AoE skill with cool visuals and akin to something many classes like warlocks and mages had and still have.

    skills that "increase X for Y seconds" are boring and can be easily removed.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  15. #175
    Because it was bloat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Offhand
    I think this thread proves that in WotLK, not only has being bad and lazy become acceptable, but a defendable position and point of pride for some people.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    he's not really wrong. back in vanilla, you always had access to all the vanity skills and aesthetic stuff your class had. now we have to choose 3 among them and trash the rest. sure, since the glyph system was implemented, we got a lot more aesthetic and fun stuff, but the weight of having to forsake some very cool stuff because some others would be more useful is heavy.

    as a warlock, I want to take glyph of felguard, soulwell and shadow bolt.

    I can't, because nightmares, falling meteor, eye of kilrog and enslave demon are more useful. (and I still have to choose one to discard)
    Back in Vanilla™ we didn't even have vanity spells. There were only a bunch of spells that were intended to have some actual use but ended up not having (Totem of Sentry, Eyes of the Beast and the like). Players might have seen/used them as "fun spells", but that wasn't their intention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinra1
    You know when men aren't listening to you and they have erect penises whilst looking up to the sky thinking of multiple sex positions?

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    that's because volley was an useful AoE skill with cool visuals and akin to something many classes like warlocks and mages had and still have.

    skills that "increase X for Y seconds" are boring and can be easily removed.
    you see, this is the point: is a matter of perspective. If they removed something like the thing you mentioned, you won't be here posting, but someone else will be and will complain the exact same way you do "Goddamn stupid Change for blizzard there may have been other skills balhalblahaladfsfohasdfoas" this guys maybe never posted on a forums but would have started if that would have happened.

    At the present time, Blizzard is in a situation where *it can't win anymore* the community is so big and large that is absolutely useless trying to take anything that is said on the forums for good, they still try I personally don't know why they bother.

    So, while the removal of volley have been decided to remove bloat and streamline the AoE rotation, this probably is a decision that has been taken like this:

    Designer1: *looking at the hunter spellbook (not action bars, spellbook)* Jesus there's so much crap in here, we have to start trying to cut off some stuff
    Designer2: Difficult to say, do you remember all those tears when we removed Volley?
    Desiger1: Right o' I do remember indeed. What is the least used ability right now?
    Designer2: *looka t statistic and tracing* we have some thousands of hunters, except for rotation abilities seems that Eye of the beast is used by [extremelysmallpercentageofpeople]
    Designer1: well let's kick it out then, we have to start somewhere
    the point that I cannot stand is that lot of people that post here have this kind of weird image where probably designers in wow are some kind of sadists that go to work wearing latex and bringing whips and cuffs with them, then scourge the forum to drink your tears and make changes so that they can feed on more of them

    EDIT: Btw I do find that it would be nice to keep it as a glyph and they should go that way like they did with a lot of others skills
    Last edited by Brazorf; 2013-04-13 at 01:59 PM.

  18. #178
    Brewmaster Caninese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,422
    I remember hiding behind a tree in Elwynn forest, just outside of Goldshire. I'd use my cat to murder lowbies, and nobody knew where I was.

  19. #179
    I really do miss eyes of the beast it was such a pointless waste of time but it was fun

    Blizz really needs to understand the meaning of bloat

    Having ten thousands buttons to press in a dps rotation is a bloat having a fun meaningless ability that sits somewhere on your taskbar that you use for shits and giggles isnt

  20. #180
    High Overlord I-like-chocolate-milk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Under your bed
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by Faithshield View Post
    I have a lot of respect for GC
    stopped reading there

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •