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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWashu View Post
    Show me the class that isn't a hotkey nightmare?
    Paladins /10char
    Dragonflight Summary, "Because friendship is magic"

  2. #142
    Deleted
    I'm trying to imagine what Ghostcrawler wouldn't consider bloat.

  3. #143
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    This. Street is a completely one-dimensional retard. He directs the game to cater to 5 or 10% of subscribers neglecting anything else, most likely he belonged/belongs to that minority. Wish Blizzard was as strict about getting rid of morons as Microsoft is...
    Totaly!
    I've got the feeling that GC turns has tunnel vision syndrome and only see the WoW in term of stats and dps. So a big part of each patch is about buffing this, nerfing this... and removing everything that isn't combat related. Now every class got the same exact abilities. Everyone got healing abilities, every combat rez is the same (remember when DK rez turned the player into a ghoul ? Ok it wasn't useful, but it was FUN!)

    So what next ? Removing pickpocket because it's bloated ? WORLD of warcraft turned into INSTANCE of warcraft with focus only on fighting.
    Hopefuly they are slowly began to realize it's not a good long-term strategy and are trying to reverse that with MoP but imho it's too little, too late.

  4. #144
    I ADORED THAT SPELL. RUNNING AROUND in durotar killing people on 1% after duels, with my awesome crab... thoose days are over (
    Or running around like ure patrolling with a RP name on your pig, making low lvl's attack it, were after you could kill them!.

  5. #145
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    This. Street is a completely one-dimensional retard. He directs the game to cater to 5 or 10% of subscribers neglecting anything else, most likely he belonged/belongs to that minority. Wish Blizzard was as strict about getting rid of morons as Microsoft is...
    Totaly!
    I've got the feeling that GC has tunnel vision syndrome and only see the WoW in term of stats and dps. So a big part of each patch is about buffing this, nerfing this... and removing everything that isn't combat related. Now every class got the same exact abilities. Everyone got healing abilities, every combat rez is the same (remember when DK rez turned the player into a ghoul ? Ok it wasn't useful, but it was FUN!)

    So what next ? Removing pickpocket because it's bloated ? WORLD of Warcraft turned into INSTANCE of Warcraft with focus only on fighting.
    Hopefuly they are slowly began to realize it's not a good long-term strategy and are trying to reverse that with MoP but imho it's too little, too late.

  6. #146
    Deleted

    Thumbs down Lame

    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    You can keep it if you can think of a single decent use for it.

    Hunters have way too many skills to use as it is, its a hot key nightmare.
    Not sure if serious or not..but Hunters have the LEAST hot keys..out of every damm Classes..1 to keep up focus..3-4 attacks as basic..2-3 from perks talent..and 3 traps..yeah..not sure if serious or not..

  7. #147
    stop removing vanity spells already. Makes me sad... qq

  8. #148
    I miss sense demons for warlocks and underwater breathing for shamans. they were nice lore skills.

    people who think things should be rotationally useful or gtfo are the reason we can't have nice things.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  9. #149
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    How many buttons do you think hunters had during vanilla? They have more now....
    Lolololol, Rofl, Lolololololol. Rofl, Looooooooool. Rofl..

  10. #150
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by guff View Post
    stop removing vanity spells already. Makes me sad... qq
    This..serious if it just is a Vanity spell then there is no freaking reason to remove it..

  11. #151
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Noorri View Post
    Ardent Defender is removed. Having 3-4 "damage reduced" cooldowns is bloat. Better to have 2 baseline and one more you can talent for.
    Indeed.
    Fun non-combat related abilites are welcome, because if you don't like them you can always keep them in your spellbook.
    But what's the point of having multiple damage reduction spell ?
    Palatanks have:
    _ Guardian of Anciens Kings: 50% less damage for 12 sec. 3mn cd
    _ Devotion Aura: 20% less magical damage for 6 sec, raid wise. 3mn cd
    _ Divine Protection: 40% less magical damage for 10 sec. 1mn cd
    _ Ardent defender: 20% less physical damage for 10 sec + prevent one death. 2mn cd
    _ Sacred shield: absorb upcoming damage, no cd.
    _ plus others heals / hands / bubble etc.

    THAT'S BLOATED

    Why not just 1-2 spell with short cooldown instead ?

  12. #152
    Warchief Lupinemancer's Avatar
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    I loved t hat spell.
    As a Hunter I was so sad when it vanished, in fact there are many spells that I wish back, like the Warlock's Sense Demons, the Paladin's Sense Undead, (not to mention, diving a Sense Elementals spell to the Shaman, and perhaps a "enslave" kind of spell, like the Warlock and Death Knight has) I miss these spells and really want them back.
    I never understood why they removed these fun spells, considering they did a lot of work on the glyphs to allow for more "fun" with your spells.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    You can keep it if you can think of a single decent use for it.
    Use stealth pet to scout areas behind elite packs? I mean really, if it's good enough to save Eye of Kilrogg...
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Yeah I saw this as well and it reaffirmed my belief that GC is a fucking tool.

    When we said get rid of the 50k short cooldowns we didnt mean the fun abilities. The ones that dont actually contribute to fights.

    Fuck having it as a glyph just give us the spell back. Nerfing fun is something thats relatively high on their agenda as of late.
    Yeah, you're right. He's a tool, a fucking tool. And they're doing all they can to remove fun. They hate vanity spells, that's why they add stuff in the game like the pick pocket glyph.

    Oh wait. There you have it. They don't hate fun. They just hate hunters! Actually, they probably don't even hate hunters, they just hate you and they do bad stuff to hunters because GC lives off of ruining your day. As if the gazillions of dollars he makes weren't enough to make him happy, that greedy jerk. Now that's a tool, isn't he!

  15. #155
    Deleted
    Oh for whoever said that thing about finding a use:

    Screw you and your boring tunnelvision dps cooldowns only way of thinking.

    Ever heard of vanity spells?

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I loved that spell, having it back like a glyph would be nice
    My thoughts exactly!

  17. #157
    Deleted
    I loved Eyes of the Beast. If it came back as a glyph, would I would be so happy! I didn't get a Devilsaur in time on my hunter before it was removed, so I would love another chance to run around as a Dinosaur. :P

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    And at the same time it was a nice, flavorsome ability that could have been reworked.
    I agree in theory, but reworked how?
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Seals do require work? Removal? Perhaps.
    While not requireing work, they are essentially unneccesary extra buttons. The definiton of bloat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Yes. You don't have to have it on your bar, but its a useful tool in many situations and it prevents the rotation being too empty at times.
    It is not a useful tool in any situation other then if the target is running away at low health, which only happens in solo PVE. Wouldn't be a big loss and it can therefor be removed. The prot rotation is already packed almost full with abilities even without HOW, there will rarely be a situation where you don't have an ability to press.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    It works on quite a bit when I use it.
    I meant that it shouldn't. It's supposed to be a change list, not a list over how things work now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Why remove their group utility?
    Because it adds 1 additional ability for everyone in the entire raid without beeing strictly necessary. Heathstones are currently the biggest bloat skill in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The spells work in different ways and are useful in different roles and situations.
    Why not get rid of bloat by having one attack?
    Because they are useful in different situations. If you give people only one of them, they will complain about missing the other tool. So if we give them both in one button they can still have both abilities. Not perfect, but better then only taking one out. And this is getting rid of bloat by having one attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    And you end up reducing the paladins ability to react to different situations, you remove flavor, you remove skill in choosing the right ability for the job, you've gutted the resource system with the removal of CS....shall I go on?
    Apperantly you didn't see that I completly replaced CS with HotR. It's nice to have abilities that can react to different situations, but when you have to many you get bloat. It's pretty much the definition of bloat; so many abilities that is situationally useful that your action bars become filled with stuff you use only once in a blue moon. As for flavor, I think the Paladin will have plenty of flavor still. Some flavor will be lost when you remove bloat though, that is inevitable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    You don't remove bloat by removing abilities you personally don't like or which doesn't suit the way you, personally, play or address responsibilities or activities you take part in.
    No, you remove bloat by taking out stuff that serves functions that already exist in another skill (Crusader Strike, Divine Shield), some of the abilities that are really niche (Hand of Sacrifice, Blinding Light) and some of the abilities that simply serves no function to the Prot Paladin such as DPS increases (Hammer of Wrath, Avenging Wrath).
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    You want to reduce Protadins "bloat"? Then you need to actually work out a core rotation, determine what moves are mandatory and what are needed.

    Base rotation now is Build 3 HP and then use Finisher. How long does that take? How long do you want it to take?

    Protadins single target toolkit is - CS, HoW, Judgment, SotR.
    Protadins AoE toolkit - HotR, HW, Cons, AS.

    So - ST and AoE HP generator, Execute move, Ranged attack, a Multi-target attack, a ST finisher and 2 AoE moves.

    I can see a case that the Damage toolkit has gaps, never mind requires paring due to bloat. You would also remove utility, defensive abilities and CDs reducing your tanks ability to deal with incoming damage simply because you don't like some of the buttons. I think your suggestions require some more work and thought.

    EJL
    If Blizzard did all the changes I wrote, the only thing that would change in the base rotation would be that prot paladins would use HotR in place of Crusader Strike. That's it.

    As for reducing all the utility and defensive cooldowns, they are at this point bloat. Most bosses have abilities that essentially enforce the use of cooldowns because tanks have so many of them now. If we had less defensive cooldowns and utility cooldowns, Blizzard could change their encounter design to match it.

    And I have put though into it. As for work, this is a forum. I made a suggestion because I am currently unsatisfied with the massive amount of bloat that fills my action bars. It's Blizzards job to put work into it.

  19. #159
    I wouldn't eliminate Crusader Strike, I would eliminate Hammer of the Righteous. Probably Consecration too. If they want to design Paladins like Rogues, then they need to make Paladin AoE like Rogues' too. Give Divine Storm to Protection. Remove cooldown, greatly increase mana cost, have it apply five stacks of Censure. Bam, Paladin AoE design is done. The current model is overwrought, with needless delay that causes Paladin AoE to fall short on low health targets.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  20. #160
    Deleted
    I suppose that this is what GC meant when he said that it was so difficult to cut skills on hunters cause everytime they think of one it turns out to be a big favourite.

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