1. #1
    High Overlord Solarflair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ironforge
    Posts
    182

    MM Hunter focus dump?

    Hey guys, quick question.

    Icy-veins says for focus dumping (while Chimera is on cooldown), you should be using Arcane Shots over Aimed Shots for a higher DPS yield.
    I was always taught to use Aimed Shot as a focus dump, especially while under the effects of a haste buff (or perhaps even always if you had a haste build), or while standing still - thanks to the new Glyph of Aimed Shot, my old idea would mean you always dumped with Aimed Shot.

    So what's the real skinny, is Arcane Shot really our best focus dump after http://www.wowhead.com/spell=34483 wears off?

    I know MM is just not worth it right now, but I wanted to mess around with it during our farm night this week.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t130571-...manship_guide/

    For your focus dump:
    -- Use Aimed Shot as your focus dump only when sufficiently hasted (below about 1.3s outside the CA phase and 1.8s inside the CA phase as a guideline) and when not experiencing interruptions or cast pushbacks
    -- Use AS as your focus dump when you are unhasted, on the move, or when experiencing possible interruptions or pushbacks.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Solarflair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ironforge
    Posts
    182
    Thank you for the response.

    Any reason as to why though? Is AiS when not Haste buffed not worth the damage per focus?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Solarflair View Post
    Thank you for the response.

    Any reason as to why though? Is AiS when not Haste buffed not worth the damage per focus?
    More likely the damage per cast time.

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    3,569
    DPET (= Damage Per Execute Time) for Aimed Shot outside of CA is lower than AS unless the "execute time" part of the equation drops low enough. I haven't done the math this expansion, but last expansion I was hard casting AiS at <=1.7s, even outside of CA. It might be different now.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    DPET (= Damage Per Execute Time) for Aimed Shot outside of CA is lower than AS unless the "execute time" part of the equation drops low enough. I haven't done the math this expansion, but last expansion I was hard casting AiS at <=1.7s, even outside of CA. It might be different now.
    Im pretty sure arcane shot does more damage compared to aimed now. The EJ guide says 1.3 normally and 1.8 in CA but that was before the AiS buff in 5.2. Its probably .1s higher now so you can use it when under RF or BL outside the CA phase if you have at least T14 gear.

  7. #7
    I play with MM atm and I'm only using Aimed as an opener, when its instant and free, or when ToTH is up (2+ stacks) and I'm about to cap Focus (Which is only usually during Rapid Fire+Heroism).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    DPET (= Damage Per Execute Time) for Aimed Shot outside of CA is lower than AS unless the "execute time" part of the equation drops low enough. I haven't done the math this expansion, but last expansion I was hard casting AiS at <=1.7s, even outside of CA. It might be different now.
    Last expansion it was worth it to cast aimed over arcane even at 2 sec/cast and higher. They changed the weapon damage formulas with MoP though so it should be different now.

    I haven't done PvE this expansion, but I always cast aimed in PvP unless I'm facing a target with plate and a shield. I would imagine in PvE you would want to cast aimed all the time because you undoubtedly have more haste and a higher ilvl weapon than I do.

    Im pretty sure arcane shot does more damage compared to aimed now. The EJ guide says 1.3 normally and 1.8 in CA but that was before the AiS buff in 5.2. Its probably .1s higher now so you can use it when under RF or BL outside the CA phase if you have at least T14 gear.
    Normally I like EJ, but they're a bad source to check for when you should be casting aimed. Whitefyst just has something against aimed shot. Last expansion I remember him suggesting to cast arcane all the time in T11 and Firelands even though it was clearly worse than hardcasting.

    I recommend you go to a dummy, find out what AI hits for, then find out what 2 arcanes plus 1 auto shot hits for. If AI hits as hard as 2 arcanes + 1 auto, you should be using AI all the time, no questions asked. The reason you have to add the 1 auto shot to the arcane side of the equation is because when casting AI, you don't cast your autos. Also, AI benefits from piercing shots, so if AI (non-crit) is equal to 2 arcanes and 1 autos, then once you factor in piercing shots your AI will be head and shoulders above arcane.
    Last edited by Neazy; 2013-04-12 at 01:28 PM.

  9. #9
    He also suggested the AS dump in Firelands as AiS did not proc ToTH for your pets and the others did. A couple different factors played into his recommendation of not hardcasting as a dump.
    My hunter is the genetic love child of Liam Neeson, the Dos Equis guy and Chuck Norris. You lose.


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuadu View Post
    He also suggested the AS dump in Firelands as AiS did not proc ToTH for your pets and the others did. A couple different factors played into his recommendation of not hardcasting as a dump.
    The reasoning is irrelevant, because he was wrong. AI was better for DPS than arcane from T11 onwards. In fact, it's still better than arcane. That 1.3s cast time he's recommending is just bullshit. AI is better right now even at a 2 second cast time.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    The reasoning is irrelevant, because he was wrong. AI was better for DPS than arcane from T11 onwards. In fact, it's still better than arcane. That 1.3s cast time he's recommending is just bullshit. AI is better right now even at a 2 second cast time.
    I'd say 2 seconds is just stretching it. You have to factor in the loss of your auto shot swing timer during your AiS casts. It's lower than 2 seconds, but not that far.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    I'd say 2 seconds is just stretching it. You have to factor in the loss of your auto shot swing timer during your AiS casts. It's lower than 2 seconds, but not that far.
    Maybe, but anyone will be under a 2 second cast time with the 10% raid haste buff and the 15% haste from casting steady shot. I just used 2 seconds because easier to compare 2 arcanes to 1 AI than 1.8 arcanes or whatever.

    I still believe AI would be better @ 2 seconds because that's when I cast it in PvP, but it's kind of pointless to do the math on it for this topic when no one will have a 2 sec cast time on AI in raids.
    Last edited by Neazy; 2013-04-12 at 08:20 PM.

  13. #13
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    3,569
    Is Aimed Shot even naturally above 2s any more? i thought they lowered the cast time to something hovering just above 2s, and with the haste on gear at these ilvls, it should be naturally pretty low.

    Of course, we're also talking "while under the effects of Steady Focus (IE, SSx2, don't know why they renamed it from Improved Steady Shot)."

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    The reasoning is irrelevant, because he was wrong. AI was better for DPS than arcane from T11 onwards. In fact, it's still better than arcane. That 1.3s cast time he's recommending is just bullshit. AI is better right now even at a 2 second cast time.
    From what I remember the strategy was to hardcast aimed unless it was movement heavy and then you should use arcane while moving. Its possible this didnt come from Whitefyst though. Also there werent a lot of Patchwerk fights in T12/13, just Bal in FL and Ultrax in DS.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    From what I remember the strategy was to hardcast aimed unless it was movement heavy and then you should use arcane while moving. Its possible this didnt come from Whitefyst though. Also there werent a lot of Patchwerk fights in T12/13, just Bal in FL and Ultrax in DS.
    They eventually changed their post to this after much arguing by me, but that was still a lazy way to play. On most fights you could cast AI full time and simply swap to fox and steady when you needed to move. Only rarely would you need to move with close to full focus, which is when you would use arcane instead of steady. You could get away with less than 5 arcane shots on a lot of fights. The only times you only ever needed to cast arcane full-time was on certain phases of fights where there was lots of random, unpredictable movement that could have caused you to interrupt your AI mid-cast (P3 H Rag, air phase Atramedes).

    Of course this is all irrelevant now with the aimed glyph and the removal of aspect of the fox. There's no reason not to cast AI now unless you're getting a fuckload of spell pushback.

  16. #16
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    3,569
    I hardcasted AiS full time on heroic Rag, and that had a shit ton of movement. It all had to do with timing your AiS right between World in Flames. For seeds, everyone was focus hording to pop MS into the seeds, so that's not really applicable.

  17. #17
    I just wanna mention that hardcasting Aimed during movement is no problem with the glyph, so that is kind of a moot point.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •