View Poll Results: Will Lordaeron be restored?

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  • Yes

    116 18.89%
  • No

    498 81.11%
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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterbom View Post
    Only thing I can see stopping it is that the forsaken are living there, restoring it would take time but could be done.
    You just try and get that smell out of the carpets and drapes.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They specifically mention the hook from the RPG, which isn't canon so the hook itself isn't canon.
    I'm sick of hearing that excuse.

    Although the RPG books were declared non canonical, that does not mean that they lack of any representative value.

    The reason by that the RPG books ceased to be canonical is simply because Blizzard did not want to have their hands tied creatively speaking, that is, they wanted to have total control over the lore of the Warcraft universe.

    But that does not mean that the entire contents of the RPG books is useless, but simply just the parts that conflict with the interests of Blizzard.
    In this way, Blizzard will consider the contents of the RPG books, changing what they do not like but keeping what they like themselves.

    To put it another way, what is narrated in RPG books will not be canon, but it has more value than any story we can invent, that is, the RPG books should not be ignored, but interpreted.
    Last edited by Northem; 2013-09-09 at 10:36 PM.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    I'm sick of hearing that excuse.

    Although the RPG books were declared non canonical, that does not mean that they lack of any representative value.

    The reason by that the RPG books*ceased to be canonical is simply because Blizzard did not want to have their hands tied creatively speaking, that is, they wanted to have total control over the lore of the Warcraft universe.

    But that does not mean that the entire contents of the RPG books is useless, but simply just the parts that conflict with the interests of Blizzard.
    In this way, Blizzard will consider the contents of the RPG books, changing what they do not like but keeping what they like themselves.
    Doesn't matter what the reasons were, RPG books are not canon. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    To put it another way, what is narrated in RPG books will not be canon, but it has more value than any story we can invent, that is, the RPG books should not be ignored, but interpreted.
    Lor'themar's short story says otherwise.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Doesn't matter what the reasons were, RPG books are not canon. Period.
    What I mean is that Blizzard will make canonical the parts of the RPG books that interest them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Lor'themar's short story says otherwise.
    The reason why an amateur story has become official lore is simply due to the favoritism that Blizzard has for the Horde.

    I myself could write a story about Calia as heroine of the Alliance, but it never would have success.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    What I mean is that Blizzard will make canonical the parts of the RPG books that interest them.
    If you didn't stop reading my post after the first sentence you would have seen that I said pmuch that exact same thing.
    "That doesn't mean Blizzard can't canonize the hook and develop Calia's story further."

    But until they do that, it might as well be fanfiction.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-09 at 11:09 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    You're the one taking it literally to mean that he and his troops are from Lordaeron because he said "our kingdom"...
    No - I'm asking if you don't think he might be speaking emotionally, given that he grew up there and that Lordaeron,a s home of the Alliance, has a special place in the hearts of that faction. You seem to be putting forward the argument that he is ranting and a raving lunatic because he sees Lordaeron as his based upon your literal reading of his text. However, if you allow for a more emotive, less literal understanding then the supposition that he is raving mad - which was the general thrust of the point you were making - kinda fades.

    When someone is consumed by rage they are of sound mind?
    It means they are angry; it doesn't mean deranged, insane or mentally unbalanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Interesting, because Varian doesn't cry "For Lordaeron" he cries "For Stormwind". I would like a source on these human soldiers who cry "For Lordaeron". Also, the only people who use the crest of Lordaeron is Theramore (well, not anymore). Not even the Scarlet Crusade uses the crest of Lordaeron outside fanart and the RPG.
    Easiest and quickest place for you to find it? Wrathgate cinematic.

    Arathor was the greatest human kingdom in existence. The vast majority of human history is tied to Arathor. It's only briefly that Lordaeron was the center. Stromguard is the Jerusalem analogue for humans.
    Humanity. Yes. The Alliance? Its home is Lordaeron.

    EJL

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by wooootles View Post
    If it's helping the Alliance or hurting the Horde it absolutely won't happen
    Oh please.. Like Blizzard cares enough to have a faction bias.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    I'm sick of hearing that excuse.

    Although the RPG books were declared non canonical, that does not mean that they lack of any representative value.
    Yes, it does. I'm sure there are plenty of ideas in there that Blizzard may end up using...but overall, they are non-canon. Will Blizzard canonise the story with Trevor? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

    We don't know. And we can only speculate if and what will be made canonical.

    Calia, as a story element, seems to interest Blizzard. They seem to like the RPG story and the potential plot hook. Calias return would also help invigorate the stories of BOTH the Alliance and Forsaken if handled right.

    But at the same time, we can't really count on anything.

    EJL

  9. #509
    need to start with orc's and the drainea or whatever, they are illegal aliens taking our jobs!

  10. #510
    The reason Lor'themar's story is now Ascended Fanon is because it's pretty damn good. It's polished and well-paced and not prone to a lot of the silly failures of most fanfic.

    But let's point to something absurd -- how can anyone say it's a sign of "faction bias" in favor of Lor'themar/Blood Elves/Horde that it's the only leader that Blizzard couldn't be arsed to write their own story for?

    I think Calia returning would make some sense, but I kinda like to think of her as probably being happily rid of royalty, even if not happy about how. In Arthas, she didn't seem to like at all the idea of being married off as a political gesture, for instance. If she comes back, have her have gone all common, maybe a hunter or rogue type. Or a prototype for Bard Make the idea of leading an attempt to reclaim Lordaeron something that is in and of itself a source of conflict for her.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    No - I'm asking if you don't think he might be speaking emotionally, given that he grew up there and that Lordaeron,a s home of the Alliance, has a special place in the hearts of that faction. You seem to be putting forward the argument that he is ranting and a raving lunatic because he sees Lordaeron as his based upon your literal reading of his text. However, if you allow for a more emotive, less literal understanding then the supposition that he is raving mad - which was the general thrust of the point you were making - kinda fades.

    It means they are angry; it doesn't mean deranged, insane or mentally unbalanced.
    He is consumed by rage, that is a hell of a lot more than just being angry. He is lost in his rage. Funny that you would use the phrase "raving mad".

    And using hyperbole to rouse his troops doesn't make it any more true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Humanity. Yes. The Alliance? Its home is Lordaeron.
    Guy I was replying to was talking about the original Alliance and humanity. Both of which are Arathor. Yes, Lordaeron is important, but historically not nearly as important as Arathor for the cultural heritage of humanity.

    The Alliance of Lordaeron wasn't even led or brought together by Lordaeron, it was led by Lothar. They just named it after Lordaeron because that's where they convened.

    "Then I hereby declare the founding of the Alliance of Lordaeron! We shall stand together as one, as our ancestors did long ago, in the Arathi Empire." The others nodded and Terenas continued. "And it is only fitting, then, that our commander should hail from that ancient ruling stock. We the kings of the Alliance do hereby appoint Lord Anduin Lothar, Champion of Stormwind, as our Supreme Commander!"
    --Tides of Darkness

    It was all about Arathor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Easiest and quickest place for you to find it? Wrathgate cinematic.
    Good catch. That is just 1 soldier while they were sieging the person who destroyed Lordaeron. That was about vengeance, not about reclaiming the kingdom.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-10 at 12:01 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  12. #512
    Would be nice if the Forsaken even took care of the place. Lordaeron City itself is a shambles, and Undercity isn't really much better. Have some pride and look after it!

    Mind you, Silvermoon needs an overhaul first. That place is kind of depressing as it currently is.

  13. #513
    No.

    Lordaeron belongs to its people, who are now called The Forsaken.

    The Alliance has as much a claim to Lordaeron as they have to Quel'Thalas, that is, ZERO.

    And I say this as an Alliance player.

    BTW, if Blizzard got drunk and decided to give the Alliance Lordaeron back, what would happen to Undead players? Are they forced to change race or delete their characters?

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  14. #514
    Bloodsail Admiral Tesk's Avatar
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    I think there are a few people who need reminding Lordaeron is the nation, Capital City is the ruins of what Undercity now is.

    With that in mind, its highly plausible without "hurting" the Horde, it can even lead to some truly good story telling. With Stratholme reclaimed that could always turn into an Alliance hub, Tyr's hand could be re-developed or Stromgarde too, maybe even Alterac. Or we could actually build something out of The Hinterlands base already present, or even reclaim Gilneas Many possibilities, but I can see a future for the Alliance to reclaim a Stronghold in Lordaeron, again, without hurting the horde and actually creating some story depth and continuation.

    Calia Menethil, the heir to Lordaeron is still missing, so she could make a return.
    Last edited by Tesk; 2013-09-10 at 12:01 AM.
    And Already The World Looks A Little Less Bright.....

  15. #515
    *sigh* Do we really need a new thread similar to this one every single week ?

    No, the Alliance will not retake Lordaeron, first because it belongs to the Forsaken, aka the people that lived there for decades, and were later risen to undeath, and then because of obvious gameplay balance issues.

    I know that it's the birthplace of the Alliance as we know it, I know that Allies feel like Blizzard hate them, I recognize it would make an epic battle, but just think about it..

    Ever since the Horde was given a little "advantage" on both continents during Cataclysm (...a few more bases, and a few territorial victories.. probably to build up your hatred towards Garrosh BTW), I keep hearing Allies whine and cry about how Blizzard favors Horde. But, remember : the Alliance ALREADY stormed Undercity during WOTLK (but they were teleported away by Jaina, blame the blonde bitch), the Alliance will begin its siege on Orgrimmar very soon..

    Try spending less time whining aimlessly, asking for impossible and "illogical" victories, and realize how much the Alliance kicked ass until now, and how lucky "you guys" are (yes, my main is Horde) for besieging the Horde's capital. I sure would have loved to lay siege on Stormwind.

    Let's hope you get my message without too many flaming

  16. #516
    Bloodsail Admiral Tesk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyrahGrunt View Post
    I know that it's the birthplace of the Alliance as we know it, I know that Allies feel like Blizzard hate them, I recognize it would make an epic battle, but just think about it..

    Ever since the Horde was given a little "advantage" on both continents during Cataclysm (...a few more bases, and a few territorial victories.. probably to build up your hatred towards Garrosh BTW), I keep hearing Allies whine and cry about how Blizzard favors Horde. But, remember : the Alliance ALREADY stormed Undercity during WOTLK (but they were teleported away by Jaina, blame the blonde bitch), the Alliance will begin its siege on Orgrimmar very soon..
    Unlike you I don't get any satisfaction from "raiding" UC or Org. It's the same thing as getting a group for the Racial Leaders, there is no lasting effect, just an achievement, and other then that we gain nothing, and at the end of the day, it was a shared effort, Horde joined us, it isn't the same thing.

    But i agree, Alliance need to stop whining and wait their turn.
    And Already The World Looks A Little Less Bright.....

  17. #517
    Bloodsail Admiral Aurabolt's Avatar
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    On Calia I'm going with the popular theory she escaped when her brother returned with Frostmourne and changed her last name to Hastings, eventually ending up in Theramore. Not sure of her whereabouts when Theramore was nuked though.

    As for the Alliance getting Lordaeron back my answer is yes, eventually. Remember: Sylvanas said to Garrosh when she first revealed the Val'kyr to him without them the Forsaken would lose their hold on Lordaeron. The Wildcards no one seems to be talking about are the Ebon Blade and the Argent Crusade, both of which are nearby. I'm pretty sure they found out about the Val'Kyr after/during The Battle for Andorhal plus Sylvanas is holding Kolitra prisoner in The Undercity. Tirion (or whoever The Restored Ashbringer is passed on to) and Darion could take Sylvanas captive and kill her until all the Val'kyr are used up then kill her for good. The rest of the Forsaken would then be swept away by the Ebon Blade and the Argent Crusade., allowing the Cenarion Ciricle to move in and do their thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    World of Warcraft has been played by so many people that it's hard to get a reliable source of new players into the game. Add to that a toxic community that expects perfection out of people who have never played and you have a recipe for decline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amry View Post
    Only one faction receiving something completely new? Absolutely not going to happen. The QQ is so massive it will break the QQ Pillar in the Elemental Plane of QQ and unleash Kiukiuwing, the Aspect of QQs.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    He is consumed by rage, that is a hell of a lot more than just being angry.
    He just walked into a slaughterhouse and discovered what the Forsaken had been doing for five years while their faction leader talked peace. He probably has cause to be just a bit more than "ticked off".

    And using hyperbole to rouse his troops doesn't make it any more true.
    It doesn't have to true to have an emotive pull. As it is, the Alliance does see Lordaeron as one of their kingdoms. It is the home and birthplace of the faction. and it is a Alliance goal to reclaim it.

    "Then I hereby declare the founding of the Alliance of Lordaeron! We shall stand together as one, as our ancestors did long ago, in the Arathi Empire." The others nodded and Terenas continued. "And it is only fitting, then, that our commander should hail from that ancient ruling stock. We the kings of the Alliance do hereby appoint Lord Anduin Lothar, Champion of Stormwind, as our Supreme Commander!"
    --Tides of Darkness
    Who did the declaration? Where was it declared? Who was the major driving force behind its creation? Lothar led the armies...but he was appointed by who? Lordaeron was very much behind its creation of the Alliance. Lordaeron is the birthplace and spiritual home of the Alliance.

    EJL

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Who did the declaration?
    Terenas was the spokesperson by simple fact of being the host, so what? He wasn't the leader. They declared Lothar to be the leader.

    And I did cut out a bit, but Terenas wasn't making a declaration. He was acknowledging the consensus. They had been arguing over who would lead them and what resources each kingdom would commit.

    "And we have all agreed upon our course of action?" Each of the other monarchs nodded, which surprised and further worried Lothar. They had still been arguing when he had given up and returned to his rooms late last night. When had they reached an agreement, and what was it about? But the king‘s next words told him clearly, and Lothar‘s blood ran cold as he heard the announcement clearly: "Then I hereby declare the founding of the Alliance of Lordaeron! We shall stand together as one, as our ancestors did long ago, in the Arathi Empire." The others nodded and Terenas continued. "And it is only fitting, then, that our commander should hail from that ancient ruling stock. We the kings of the Alliance do hereby appoint Lord Anduin Lothar, Champion of Stormwind, as our Supreme Commander!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Where was it declared?
    Lordaeron just happened to be where Lothar landed his ships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Who was the major driving force behind its creation?
    Lothar's recount of the devastation wrought by the Horde with Khadgar to corroborate the story.

    "We need to band together," Lothar insisted. "None of you alone can withstand them. But all of us together…might." The potency of the Orc's magic was backed up by Antonidas. All Terenas did was throw his support behind Lothar and what an asset he was, specifically citing Lothar's Arathi heritage: "For he is of the Arathi bloodline, indeed the last of their noble line, and thus has as much right to speak at this council as any of us!"

    Suddenly Lothar was more than just a warrior or even a commander in their eyes. Now he was a potential ambassador to the elves. And if that ancient, magic-wielding race chose to ally with them, suddenly the Horde did not seem nearly as unstoppable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Lothar led the armies...but he was appointed by who?
    "We the kings of the Alliance."

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Lordaeron was very much behind its creation of the Alliance. Lordaeron is the birthplace and spiritual home of the Alliance.
    All Lordaeron contributed was a place to convene. The Alliance was brought together by of their history in Arathor and the lineage of Lothar.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    He just walked into a slaughterhouse and discovered what the Forsaken had been doing for five years while their faction leader talked peace. He probably has cause to be just a bit more than "ticked off".
    Which overrode his judgement... He starts a tirade against the orcs for unrelated events to what they had witnessed in UC. Like seriously? What they had just witnessed in UC is way worse than anything Varian mentions about the orcs. But Varian goes on about the orcs instead of focusing on the horrors right in front of them. Varian mentions being thrown into the arenas FFS! Not even on the same scale as what Putress was doing.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-10 at 02:01 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  20. #520
    Bloodsail Admiral Aurabolt's Avatar
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    Wait...what are we talking about again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    World of Warcraft has been played by so many people that it's hard to get a reliable source of new players into the game. Add to that a toxic community that expects perfection out of people who have never played and you have a recipe for decline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amry View Post
    Only one faction receiving something completely new? Absolutely not going to happen. The QQ is so massive it will break the QQ Pillar in the Elemental Plane of QQ and unleash Kiukiuwing, the Aspect of QQs.

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