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  1. #41
    But are these changes enough to make enhancement viable in competive pvp?
    I would like to get in rbg groups if i start playing my shaman again.. Enhancement is my favourite spec of any class.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by chronicline View Post
    whats with that lightning shield glyph change... i mean i guess its more interesting that way but whatever.
    Since all I do is PVP, I'm really concerned about the first strike response of this shield. As I read it, it sounds like we're gonna still eat full chaos bolts if it's the first thing to land outside of the 6 sec window.

    From what I've read on these forums, I'm guessing there aren't too may shaman pvp-ers hanging around. One of the biggest class limitations we have in PVP is low base health. We also suffer from crappy armor DR. Not only do we take bigger hits, we have less of a health pool cushion to deal with them. The original incarnation of GoLS provided (finally) a decent passive defensive ability. Now, it's kinda meh. Nice, and it'll still be a required glyph, but just not enough to make the difference we need.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 07:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Exactly, if you ever played in wotlk, you know how amazing fun it was to play as enhance, you could literally kite anyone to death. Yes, we got our big nice shiny burst cd, but at what cost. In tbc and wotlk, if in 5v5 they went on me i could happyly say "calm down people, im tanking the shit out of them", now i die in a stun, even with SR on in 2v2, let alone 3v3 or 5v5.

    The overall burst in game is too high, we know it, even Blizzard knows it, and then they buff burst, instead of sustained dmg or our defense or our totems or literally anything at all but burst. Its like complete opposite of their communcation.

    There is also FAR too much cc in pvp. I'm from the school of thought that believes pvp is for busting heads. Right now, it's all about using cc. That's boring. Sap, stun, blind, fear, horrify, fear, immobilize, stun, dead. That happens far too often.

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Alceus's Avatar
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    Enh are like CD dependant :/
    Frostwolf clan is best clan!
    Tauren Shaman - Pandaren Monk - Orc Hunter - Troll Druid

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Alceus View Post
    Enh are like CD dependant :/
    Ironic, that the least cd dependent class in the game became the biggest one trick/cd pony
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  5. #45
    Enhc needed PVP buffs, but aren't we already in a good place in PVE? I can see this putting us too much ahead.

    I don't expect many of those to go live.

  6. #46
    anyone who argues that the buffs are too much either hasn't been playing a shaman for very long or doesn't play them at the higher levels. While i would like to say that lower levels still matter because people still like to play at that level, i can't because the winner there is the person who decides to play above the others.

    nice much needed buffs. also is it too much to hope to be the top class for a tier? too many classes keep reappearing in that spot over and over, i think we have become too complacent. Furthermore i think we are in a winner take all game.

  7. #47
    Like many I'm pretty skeptical that these buffs will see live as they are now. We're a competitive spec at the moment, and from a simmed perspective (which I find about as worthwhile as chocolate teapot for this tier's fights) we out perform Elemental. There's no reason, from a purely PvE numbers spreadsheet perspective, to give us these buffs.

    The issue is that Enhancement, especially on the Alliance side, are a complete rarity. It's to the point where no one's really willing to take enhancemans because they're not really sure what we're capable of. Rogues, Warriors, Monks, DK's even Paladins just seem like more reliable choices. Most 10 man raids will have a Hunter for agility mail items and they'll want at least one plate wearing melee to take those strength DPS items. What fills the last slot? Rogues. There is a place for us in a raid, but it's one given begrudgingly for lack of a more reliable alternative. It's only when we actually make it into the raid and show an elemental up that we're taken seriously.

    25 man may well be different, but back when I raided 25 I was still the only hancer there.

    I can't tell you how many times people have asked me to switch to elemental over the years, "Elemental DPS is great and ranged are so much more useful." If this is what it takes for people to finally take Enhancement seriously as a raid worthy spec, then by all means, put these buffs in live. On the other hand, if you really want us to be a desired spec you could give us some proper bloody cleave!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    The overall burst in game is too high, we know it, even Blizzard knows it, and then they buff burst, instead of sustained dmg or our defense or our totems or literally anything at all but burst. Its like complete opposite of their communcation.
    This really isn't so much of a burst buff though. It's pretty much just a buff to every active ability we have. Our burst is going to go up a bit by consequence, but its also a nice boost to our sustained damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Throdin View Post
    Like many I'm pretty skeptical that these buffs will see live as they are now. We're a competitive spec at the moment, and from a simmed perspective (which I find about as worthwhile as chocolate teapot for this tier's fights) we out perform Elemental. There's no reason, from a purely PvE numbers spreadsheet perspective, to give us these buffs.
    Yes, we'll probably be simcraft champions but that is the most useless metric there is. Look at raid bots, talk to any Enhance Sham playing in a top tier progression guild... these buffs are welcomed.
    Last edited by nazrakin; 2013-04-12 at 05:17 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    anyone who argues that the buffs are too much either hasn't been playing a shaman for very long or doesn't play them at the higher levels. While i would like to say that lower levels still matter because people still like to play at that level, i can't because the winner there is the person who decides to play above the others.

    nice much needed buffs. also is it too much to hope to be the top class for a tier? too many classes keep reappearing in that spot over and over, i think we have become too complacent. Furthermore i think we are in a winner take all game.
    I'll argue with this to a degree, Enh shamans are not in a bad place ( for pve ) they just arn't at the top. I do agree they need damage buffs in the sustained area but i feel that all they are doing is throwing big numbers at them without addressing the real issues.

    On a side note: i would rather have them increase stormstrike damage and leave stormblast damage alone and give that extra damage in a different area such as lightning bolt, windfury, or even wolves.

  10. #50
    Yeah I agree, maybe even a flameshock buff to eliminate burst increase, but bring up sustained dps and aoe a bit. Would also like magma totem buff, what the hell that thing does I don't know.

    Better cleave through CL buff or something like LL hitting 3 targets but at 50% dmg.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    I'll argue with this to a degree, Enh shamans are not in a bad place ( for pve ) they just arn't at the top. I do agree they need damage buffs in the sustained area but i feel that all they are doing is throwing big numbers at them without addressing the real issues.

    On a side note: i would rather have them increase stormstrike damage and leave stormblast damage alone and give that extra damage in a different area such as lightning bolt, windfury, or even wolves.
    Raidbots is about the closest thing we have to a fair measure of class performance and enhance is at the bottom of virtually every encounter on both normal and heroic difficulty. Its not just AE either, even on normal mode single target fights like Jinrok and Iron Qon we're way under most other specs. Considering that Rets, WW, Hunters, and Ferals are also all getting substaintial buffs we certainly aren't moving up the ladder by much.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by zenga View Post
    And on tortos, megaera and council they are dead last in 10m hc.
    Council and magaera are HUGE offhealing fights for us our avg dps is going to be lower because good shamans are sacraficing some dps to help the healers so when you look at raidbot our avg will be less. On magaera im pulling 50k hps non heroic I cant imaging what kinda offhealing I will do with 10% more spellpower. If anything this buff is going to put our offhealing to insane limits.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b...?s=4345&e=4753 10% more spell power = just some fun offhealing!

  13. #53
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechLife View Post
    Council and magaera are HUGE offhealing fights for us our avg dps is going to be lower because good shamans are sacraficing some dps to help the healers so when you look at raidbot our avg will be less. On magaera im pulling 50k hps non heroic I cant imaging what kinda offhealing I will do with 10% more spellpower. If anything this buff is going to put our offhealing to insane limits.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b...?s=4345&e=4753 10% more spell power = just some fun offhealing!
    Agreed with that. I hold my cd's on magaera for the healing when it's needed (not super long but a little bit).

    Really happy to see they are actually looking at enhance. I wouldn't complain at all if all these went through but even a couple of them would be nice. Pref. the WF and MA > SS/SB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    I'll argue with this to a degree, Enh shamans are not in a bad place ( for pve ) they just arn't at the top. I do agree they need damage buffs in the sustained area but i feel that all they are doing is throwing big numbers at them without addressing the real issues.

    On a side note: i would rather have them increase stormstrike damage and leave stormblast damage alone and give that extra damage in a different area such as lightning bolt, windfury, or even wolves.
    well as we all know they NEVER address the real issue. For shamans its mostly been an on-off switch of being broken-worthless. i would rather have more broken time than worthless time. Granted PVE it all tends to average out to not be so extreme, there is still a lot of wide sweeping variance that goes on. Furthermore PVP has been in this on-off state for a long time.

    WTB DS days when arena gear was bought with honor. I miss running around with 2 H no kaleds beating ppl up and 1 healing back up.

  15. #55
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    Im torn. The buffs sound delicious. Sure. But they arent what we need. Our single target is fine. Our AoE is what is a joke.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    Im torn. The buffs sound delicious. Sure. But they arent what we need. Our single target is fine. Our AoE is what is a joke.
    As crazy as this sounds... i think the buffs were more towards pvp

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    those are 100% tooltip fixes i see no rwason to buff enha so much and without ele buffs wich preforms way worse than enha
    Hopefully they go Live. Even tho Enha is doing fine atm, We havent ever been in any better place than we are now. Buffing SS, SL, LL and Mental Quickness will make us even greater.

    Maybe they are trying to buff us in PvP, but it will make os very stong in PvE. The upcoming buffs wont change much in PvP. We are still getting trained way too hard in PvP
    Main(s): Enha sham and Hunter. Alts: Mage / Every other class, all are 90 (Used for professions only)

  18. #58
    For PvP this is great news. Enhance burst is actually fairly poor in PvP when compared to most other DPS specs. Ascendance's burst in PvP is based mostly around Stormblast, which is two attacks 8 seconds apart. This is easily healed through, and if even one of the stormblasts is stopped (and Ascendance is countered by almost every defensive in the game, due to being considered melee and spell), the burst is almost entirely negated. Even then, a non-crit main hand stormblast in PvP will typically hit for around 35k on a geared target. This is a normal hit for most people.

  19. #59
    This tweet sheds some light on why they buffed what they buffed:
    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...76657329094656

    these are perfectly in line with that philosophy.

    That said our AoE and cleave got a slight buff with the MQ change. Purge estimated that our spells will be hitting ~18% harder.

  20. #60
    Warchief Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Exactly, if you ever played in wotlk, you know how amazing fun it was to play as enhance, you could literally kite anyone to death. Yes, we got our big nice shiny burst cd, but at what cost. In tbc and wotlk, if in 5v5 they went on me i could happyly say "calm down people, im tanking the shit out of them", now i die in a stun, even with SR on in 2v2, let alone 3v3 or 5v5.

    The overall burst in game is too high, we know it, even Blizzard knows it, and then they buff burst, instead of sustained dmg or our defense or our totems or literally anything at all but burst. Its like complete opposite of their communcation.
    Enhance NEEDS a buff to our burst....buffing the damage of our active abilities is good. We don't need more sustained DPS, we have tons of that....you can't rely on haste and damage from auto attacks in PVP cause enemies move around and you can't stay on target forever, that is why having more damage from strikes is good cause you can always get those off even if on target for only a few seconds. Like I said earlier though, I would have preferred some of that damage buff spread to stuff like shocks and ULE and not just SS/LL which always gets buffed.

    We have pretty good utility too, we are still good at kiting esp with a ranged root......all we really needed here was buffs to totems and defense. They should keep the 10%HP on totems, and the 10%dmg red via LS glyph is pretty good but I would prefer if it was just a baseline passive for Enh and Elem specs but otherwise that is a solid buff to our defenses.

    There are some other changes I would make that I think Enh could really use, like more glyph changes such as Imp GW baseline to free up glyphs for more customization, wind shear given a 4 sec lockout or 9 sec cd to make it 33% lockout similar to rogues and monks interrupts......and prob still some more defensive buffs for Enhance since I think were still kinda low and while Elem got a new CD with Sham Rage, Enhance didn't get anything.

    In general these are good buffs though and I think your complaining is unnecessary, they didn't buff the wrong things and we did get some buffs to defenses along with damage.

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