1. #1

    Re-Applying dots. Need some imput please. [Balance]

    Okay so here is my dilemma.
    I managed to get the Crit trinket from Lei-Shen and I managed to get into the following situation.

    I have Solar eclipsed dots up and casting wrath to go for Lunar.
    At 0 energy (center) the trinket procs giving me 100% crit. Of course I apply both dots right away.
    I get a lot of SS procs and gets me into Lunar and out of it (by just SS procs) then dots drop.

    Here is my dilemma.

    What do I do.

    1. Hard cast Starfire to reach Solar and then apply dots?
    2. Apply the dots as soon as the 100% crit ones drop and continue casting Starfire to reach Solar? and if so when I reach Solar apply them again?

    To me it seems that if I apply the dots as soon as the 100% crit ones drop I might get a SS proc but then again I have to waste 2 globals to re-apply them once I reach Solar. so what to do ?

    Any imput is highly appriciated.

    ------ Thank you <i4ni > for this amazing signature ! ------

  2. #2
    Considering Nature's Grace should still be up at this point you should just refresh right away and l refresh them when you're one cast away from leaving solar eclipse (wich should happen 1-2 seconds away from dropping the dots)

  3. #3
    Good thread, lately I've also been thinking about certain situations, when I'm not completely sure whether or not it's worth to refresh my DoTs.

    1) I am in Lunar Eclipse at 100 Lunar Energy, the time remaining on my Dots is ~14 seconds, Breath of Hydra and Cha-Ye both proc at the same time. Incarnation and CA have been used few minutes before and are on cooldown. Do I refresh my Dots before going out of Lunar Phase?

    2) Same situation as 1, but now only Cha-Ye procs.

    3) It's heroic jin'rokh fight, I am standing in the water, gaining Fluidity buff. I used CA, the time remaining on it is 2 seconds, I refresh the DoTs and at this moment I become the target of focused lightning. What do I do while running away with the orb and back into the water?

    4) Once again it's heroic jin'rokh fight, I am in Lunar Eclipse at 40 Lunar energy, both of my dots are buffed by Fluidity and have 14 seconds remaining on them. The heroic storm phase begins. Let's say I don't have to heal anyone or use Tranquility just yet and I also can't hard cast. Should I damage him, thus refreshing one of my Dots (buffed by fluidity), and if yes - do I use Moonfire (buffed by eclipse) or Sunfire?

    5) I was buffed by Bloodlust, CA and Incarnation and refresh my DoTs. They now have 14-15 seconds remaining on them. BL, CA and INC all end. Right at this moment my UVLS trinket procs. Do I refresh my DoTs or not?

    6) I am at 0 energy, heading towards lunar eclipse. The time remaining on my DoTs is 7 seconds (sunfire buffed by eclipse). Bloodlust is casted. Do I refresh my DoTs right away or wait until I arrive at lunar eclipse?

  4. #4
    The Patient Ysoph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Bratislava
    Posts
    235
    > Lunar eclipse gives you 115% arcane damage.
    > Moonfire ticks for like 1.8k plus 25% of your spellpower.
    > Lets say you are sitting on 30k sp.

    So your uneclipsed tick is 9.3k, eclipsed 11.6k. Difference is 2.3k
    If you want your intellect procs outweight the eclipse you need to have at least 2.3 x 4 = 9.2k int bonus.
    NG and haste procs really complicates stuff, if you dont have NG on you are loosing 2 dot ticks so 2 potential SS procs. (maybe 0.8 real procs) I would consider having NG on as highest priority and would not refresh without it.

    So if you are outta eclipse, your dots are running over, you still have NG on and you have Hydra+Cha Ye procced (both 7.333k int) - you want to refresh your dots, hardcast to get to another eclipse and continue casts till last moment when you still will be in eclipse and with NG and than refresh again. If you have only one of those 2 trinkets on - ignore proc, however if you have also pot on - refresh. Etc..

    3) Rejuv yourself and whoever you can, just dont dotspam.
    4) Thats a hard question, I would say better would be to rejuv and hope for SS procs and if possible try to get to another eclipse to redot.
    5) No, you should refresh them right before CA+INC+hero ended.
    6) Hardcast for your eclipse.

    On the original question above - hardcast to get to eclipse and than dot.
    If you still have NG and plus any int procs on and you could expect any movement in next seconds you can dot.

    BTW if you are having issues with tracking buffs you have on - I am using EvenAlert addon which is awesome.
    Last edited by Ysoph; 2013-04-15 at 08:49 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ysoph View Post
    > Lunar eclipse gives you 115% arcane damage.
    > Moonfire ticks for like 1.8k plus 25% of your spellpower.
    > Lets say you are sitting on 30k sp.

    So your uneclipsed tick is 9.3k, eclipsed 11.6k. Difference is 2.3k
    If you want your intellect procs outweight the eclipse you need to have at least 2.3 x 4 = 9.2k int bonus.
    NG and haste procs really complicates stuff, if you dont have NG on you are loosing 2 dot ticks so 2 potential SS procs. (maybe 0.8 real procs) I would consider having NG on as highest priority and would not refresh without it.

    So if you are outta eclipse, your dots are running over, you still have NG on and you have Hydra+Cha Ye procced (both 7.333k int) - you want to refresh your dots, hardcast to get to another eclipse and continue casts till last moment when you still will be in eclipse and with NG and than refresh again. If you have only one of those 2 trinkets on - ignore proc, however if you have also pot on - refresh. Etc..
    My question was whether it's worth it to use the 2 GCDs to refresh dots before going out of eclipse (having ~15k extra int) or just use starfire.
    An average starfire hits for like ~120k (with 15-20% variance for eclipsed/non-eclipsed).
    A dot ticks 10 times with 5273+ haste + NG. So, using your damage values, an uneclipsed dot would tick for 1.8+45*0.25 = 13.05 (instead of 9.3k) and an eclipsed dot would tick for (1.8+45*0.25)*1.15 = 15 (instead of 10.7 -> don't know where you got the 11.6k from btw).
    The difference is 10 * (13.05-9.3+15-10.7) = 80k.
    So by my calculations it's not worth it to refresh dots even with 2 trinket procs. Or did I make a mistake?
    I guess the difference isn't big at all with 2 trinkets, but refreshing with only 1 proc is definitely a DPS loss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ysoph View Post
    5) No, you should refresh them right before CA+INC+hero ended.
    The question was whether UVLS without anything (not even NG) is better than CA+INC+BL+NG. I probably should have formulated it better.

    The rest was well-explained, thanks for your input!

  6. #6
    The Patient Ysoph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Bratislava
    Posts
    235
    I see, my eyes are again faster than my brain :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by aParadise View Post
    My question was whether it's worth it to use the 2 GCDs to refresh dots before going out of eclipse (having ~15k extra int) or just use starfire.
    > Well in general rotation definitely no.
    > If you put dots on after entering eclipse with no procs, and you are before leaving eclipse with NG on and any proc - yes - but let those dots on also while entering next eclipse and dot again before dots falls off while having NG+eclipse on.
    > If you will need to heal or more or something and there is a risk your dots will fall off and you will have no damage at all, just redot in best situation you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by aParadise View Post
    The question was whether UVLS without anything (not even NG) is better than CA+INC+BL+NG. I probably should have formulated it better.
    No, no way..

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sarj313 View Post
    Okay so here is my dilemma.
    I managed to get the Crit trinket from Lei-Shen and I managed to get into the following situation.
    ...
    ... trinket procs giving me 100% crit. Of course I apply both dots right away.
    I thought I read somewhere (maybe a GC post) that our dots are dynamic with regards to crit procs... I.e. you wouldn't need to clip ur dots as soon as the UVLS trinket procs because it would automatically already be affected by the 100% crit chance....

    Yes, our dots take snapshots at the moment of application for everything else (i.e. haste, int, sp, etc) but are you guys 100% sure that it works the same for crit?

    PS: I'd be a easy to test to check that, have ur dots up till it procs then just watch if you get those SS procs without having to refresh or not... Unfortunately I don't have the trink to test that...

  8. #8
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    777
    Quote Originally Posted by land View Post
    I thought I read somewhere (maybe a GC post) that our dots are dynamic with regards to crit procs... I.e. you wouldn't need to clip ur dots as soon as the UVLS trinket procs because it would automatically already be affected by the 100% crit chance....

    Yes, our dots take snapshots at the moment of application for everything else (i.e. haste, int, sp, etc) but are you guys 100% sure that it works the same for crit?

    PS: I'd be a easy to test to check that, have ur dots up till it procs then just watch if you get those SS procs without having to refresh or not... Unfortunately I don't have the trink to test that...
    Yes, in fact our DoTs were specifically changed to scale statically with crit procs at the time of application, just so we could actually use UVLS.

    Here's the post on Sunfyre's blog: http://www.owlkin.org/2013/02/16/wee...-crit-changed/
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-04-15 at 05:34 PM.

  9. #9
    I appriciate all the people in this thread and love everyone for trying to help but can I get some answers regarding my post?
    Seems that everyone is answering aParadise. I don't mean to offend anyone just need some help with my issue.

    ------ Thank you <i4ni > for this amazing signature ! ------

  10. #10
    i don't think anyone really knows Sarj

    I'd say, you'd either refresh before leaving lunar, or more likely, let them drop off for 1-2 casts and wait until solar to put them back up. I can't imagine you'd stop halfway to solar (outside eclispe) to reapply dots.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Suffolk, UK.
    Posts
    1,102
    Let them drop, hard cast and refresh in eclipse with NG.

    I agree with most of what Ysoph said in his original post; however at @ #4. I don't see why you can't hard cast, pop Barkskin or AMS plat your feet and nuke. If you've rejuv'd yourself, and everyone else who needs it, and simply can't dot. A tiny dps increase over no damage at all would be planting shrooms for your next solar eclipse.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sarj313 View Post
    I appriciate all the people in this thread and love everyone for trying to help but can I get some answers regarding my post?
    Seems that everyone is answering aParadise. I don't mean to offend anyone just need some help with my issue.
    Oh damn, I'm sorry. To answer your question, I would just reapply DoTs right away and refresh them and the end of next solar eclipse.
    Reasons: you still have your NG up, balance druids generally avoid mastery on items, so we have around ~20% in a raid enviroment (with +3000 mastery buff). I don't see a reason why you wouldn't reapply your dots just because one of them is ticking for 20% less. As mentioned above by Ysoph, it's only a 2-3k difference on tick. Let's say you are at 0-15 energy -> you need 3 starfires to reach solar. Starfire's casting time is like 2.3 seconds. 3*2.3 =~ 7 seconds of dots not ticking, which equals to about 45-50k damage loss. This even not considering possible starsurge procs.

  13. #13
    Just because they nerfed mushrooms in MoP doesn't mean you guys shouldn't still use them. If you have to move for a short period of time and you don't want to override buffed/100% crit/etc. dots, just throw down a shroom.

  14. #14
    thanks a lot for the help i guess its just situational as usual and nothing is set in stone

    ------ Thank you <i4ni > for this amazing signature ! ------

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •