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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    So in the end, the consumer vote with their wallet.
    And here I was thinking we concluded that in general they actually don't, they buy the product and then proceed to moan about their game/franchise getting destroyed.

    Which is why I'm saying that people who buy their products are a part of the problem.
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  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Never said they can't have that, you're reading in to it way to much on a personal level. And yes I do have a hatred for the business practices of EA, and to be fair I'm quite sure a majority of gamers do, yet loads of them go out and keep funding them. With this funding they can acquire more franchises to exploit to have more people complain about how EA ruined their franchise, and again people still buy their products.

    Look at as comparable with child labor, almost everyone in the western world condemns it, yet a majority of them would buy those really cheap products the children makes...



    Can he be sure that he's funding never affects the games he likes, lets say they buy he's favorite franchise and decide to piss all over it for example...



    Hence you are a part of the problem and lost any and all rights to complain if EA ever does something bad that do end up affecting you.



    Which is equally bad to be honest, throwing money at some one just because they been good to you in the past is just bad practice, pre-orders and various pre-order bonuses are some of the worst things that happened to gaming in the past few years, it promotes lazy development and bad games.
    I have not lost any right at all thats just your own anger speaking there (anger for EA) If a product is bad i can voice my concern its a buyers right. I then will simply not buy a product from them again just like other companies (looking at you gearbox) who produce a turd of a product. I vote with my wallet. to suggest anyone loses any right is just self righteous bullshit. EA for me are treading a fine line. They produce some games I like (under their companies they own) but they also killed off some franchises that I really enjoyed. I will only buy a game should it really stand out. Looking at their last few games its unlikely.

    I know pre-orders are a problem I don't do them anymore but I make an exception for those two companies. Why? Because they still produce very higher quality products. The moment they produce a turd my moneys not going their way. I can and will voice any complaints to them should I feel aggrieved. (thats valve and blizzard who so far still make great games)

    Also when you say can he be sure hes funding something bad with EA. No you can never be sure. But should something arise that causes enough concern or disgust then you can always voice it and/or vote with your wallet.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I have not lost any right at all thats just your own anger speaking there (anger for EA) If a product is bad i can voice my concern its a buyers right. I then will simply not buy a product from them again just like other companies .
    ...Except you have...when you said you already have issues with them, but you still buy their products anyways. So you have already admitted that you won't 'simply not buy a product from them again'. You've already done it.
    BAD WOLF

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    i don't agree with this statement.

    Say you vote for your president (if you live in such country), you might globally agree with its political view but disagree on some point.
    It is your right (i'm no american, but i believe it's the first amendment) to voice your disagreement with said points.
    We don't get to vote if EA should make more day one DLC's though, if it was put up to a vote among gamers I'm quite sure of what the result would be...
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  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    ...Except you have...when you said you already have issues with them, but you still buy their products anyways. So you have already admitted that you won't 'simply not buy a product from them again'. You've already done it.
    No I have not. Are you the authority on this matter? Are you the one who says we can and cannot have any right to complain about a product? Up until the ME3 ending I was content with the last games I bought from them. The issues I had with EA were westwood/bullfrog being closed down. After the diabolical ME3 ending and seeing sim city coming I decided not to buy from them until I can trust any product. So far i've kept that. Also people complaining about their games also got a free game due to the sim city launch going down the pan. (those who owned the new sim city that is)

    So please tell me where i've lost any such right?

  6. #486
    EA destroyed SWTOR, and gutted the Dragon Age franchise. Dragon Age had the potential to become the greatest franchise in all of gaming history, and EA obliterated it. Dragon Age Origins remains one of the best games I've ever played, DA2 one of the worst. A few months into DAO, I even remember talking with folks about how Dragon Age would likely culminate in an MMO- the world was incredibly expansive and the lore some of the best gaming had ever seen. We'll be lucky now if DA3 isn't a complete flop. Rest in peace, Bioware.

    To gamers, EA truly is the worst.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I have not lost any right at all thats just your own anger speaking there (anger for EA) If a product is bad i can voice my concern its a buyers right. I then will simply not buy a product from them again just like other companies (looking at you gearbox) who produce a turd of a product. I vote with my wallet. to suggest anyone loses any right is just self righteous bullshit. EA for me are treading a fine line. They produce some games I like (under their companies they own) but they also killed off some franchises that I really enjoyed. I will only buy a game should it really stand out. Looking at their last few games its unlikely.
    No really, you lost that right, you can't for example on one had say "I don't approve of day one DLC" to then proceed to buy the game and expect to be taken serious, doesn't matter how long you wait and what discount you got, in th eend you are condoning the practice of day one DLC through your purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I know pre-orders are a problem I don't do them anymore but I make an exception for those two companies. Why? Because they still produce very higher quality products. The moment they produce a turd my moneys not going their way. I can and will voice any complaints to them should I feel aggrieved. (thats valve and blizzard who so far still make great games)
    I'd disagree with Blizzard after D3 but hey I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion, either way pre-orders are still a bad practice, no matter how great their previous games where, at it's core it's begging to be shafted.

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Also when you say can he be sure hes funding something bad with EA. No you can never be sure. But should something arise that causes enough concern or disgust then you can always voice it and/or vote with your wallet.
    So charging for action bars, day one DLC, always online as DRM to name a few doesn't cause concern or disgust enough for you?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 03:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Also people complaining about their games also got a free game due to the sim city launch going down the pan. (those who owned the new sim city that is)
    A free game that cost less then $5 at any Steam sale, and only because they refused to refund the purchases, something Amazon did for example.
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  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    No really, you lost that right, you can't for example on one had say "I don't approve of day one DLC" to then proceed to buy the game and expect to be taken serious, doesn't matter how long you wait and what discount you got, in th eend you are condoning the practice of day one DLC through your purchase.



    I'd disagree with Blizzard after D3 but hey I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion, either way pre-orders are still a bad practice, no matter how great their previous games where, at it's core it's begging to be shafted.



    So charging for action bars, day one DLC, always online as DRM to name a few doesn't cause concern or disgust enough for you?
    No NO NO.

    You do not decide who loses any such right. As a consumer you have the right to complain regardless end of dont use that argument again. You can certainly say its silly to buy a game continually and complain about it but you dont lose the right not ever.

    You are simply and annoyingly assuming I would happily agree with Day one DLC or action bars (what game have they released does that?) always online DRM is a fact of life at present. Valves been doing it for years (there is an offline mode to be fair)

    After ME3, which was the first time i've seen EA really try to screw over gamers I decided not to buy from them unless I see an improvement. So where exactly do you see a problem in this? Same thing for gearbox They released Aliens CM which was shit they won't get a penny from me. The list goes on. Valve I have yet to have a shit game from them. The moment I get one you can rest assured I will not be buying games from them until such a time they make up for it. Blizzard I bought diablo 3 about 1 month after release. Enjoyed it played like D2. completed it put it down afterwards. But I really enjoy SC2 and still enjoy wow. Until such a time they do something to annoy the fuck out of me I will continue to play/buy their games.

    I do agree pre-orders are a bad practice. I think in the not too distant future we may even see a slight gaming crash. Not as severe as the 80s version but hopefully enough to make some companies change their ways.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    As a consumer you have the right to complain regardless end of dont use that argument again.
    You don't tell me what argument to use and not...and with that I think we're done.
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  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziharkk View Post
    EA destroyed SWTOR, and gutted the Dragon Age franchise. Dragon Age had the potential to become the greatest franchise in all of gaming history, and EA obliterated it. Dragon Age Origins remains one of the best games I've ever played, DA2 one of the worst. A few months into DAO, I even remember talking with folks about how Dragon Age would likely culminate in an MMO- the world was incredibly expansive and the lore some of the best gaming had ever seen. We'll be lucky now if DA3 isn't a complete flop. Rest in peace, Bioware.

    To gamers, EA truly is the worst.
    There's an interview with one of the Bioware founders linked a few pages back (the one who now makes beer).

    He says that any mistakes in Bioware's products were made by Bioware, EA simply gave them the funding and told them to make a profit. I know it's a lot easier to imagine an evil boogie-man destroying the hard work of your idols, but in reality creative types are often hit-and-miss especially when they find themselves with a ton of extra resources they're not used to having.

    Also I don't get what everyone's big deal is with day 1 DLC. They can sell you a game for £30 with DLC for £15, or they can sell you the full package for £45 or they can just sell the game for £30 and release the DLC later.

    To me the day 1 DLC is the best option (apart from giving you stuff for free, because free stuff is cool but let's stay realistic), if you want extra you can choose to pay for it. If not, don't. Personally I wish all of ME3's DLC had been purchasable on day 1.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    You don't tell me what argument to use and not...and with that I think we're done.
    Good as i think telling others they lose the right to complain is bullshit

    With Day one DLC a lot of it is already on the disc (assuming you buy the physical copy) Now the argument can be made that this was made after the game was finished. So rather than have your programmers designers etc do nothing why not make more content. If that was genuinely true I would not have a problem with day 1 dlc. But I suspect its planned beforehand and probably made at the same time as normal game content.

  12. #492
    The REAL vote that matters, the vote with America's wallet, says otherwise. Anyone who says EA is the "worst company in America" but still buys their products is just a petty nitwit.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    To me the day 1 DLC is the best option (apart from giving you stuff for free, because free stuff is cool but let's stay realistic), if you want extra you can choose to pay for it. If not, don't. Personally I wish all of ME3's DLC had been purchasable on day 1.
    You do realize that day one DLC's are just parts of the game stripped out to be sold separately for extra profit right?

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Good as i think telling others they lose the right to complain is bullshit
    They lose the rights to be taken seriously, and it's as much bullshit as trying to play moderator on these forums by dictating what others can and cant argue...
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  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    The REAL vote that matters, the vote with America's wallet, says otherwise.
    Good luck buying produce that hasn't been tainted by Monsanto (protip, even local farmers market produce tends to be Monsanto seeds)

    No matter where you "vote" with your wallet, the massive TNCs still get your money.
    Resistance is futile.
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  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    You do realize that day one DLC's are just parts of the game stripped out to be sold separately for extra profit right?



    They lose the rights to be taken seriously, and it's as much bullshit as trying to play moderator on these forums by dictating what others can and cant argue...
    I agree its as much bullshit as playing moderator. But they lose no such right. you think they do but they actually don't. Its not factual and yet here you are trying to make it appear as such.

    I'm simply saying they lose no such right, they might be a bit silly buying games continually and complaining each time but they can complain. Certainly so.

    looks like you made an edit, I do think its probably something that was included in the game thats probably stripped out to make it as DLC. The from ashes DLC certainly fits that bill and is one of the points I disliked what happened with ME3 the amount of conversations that ran through the entire game looks like far too much work to be simply something made after the game was finished. What with all the rush to get the game made to EAs strict time table.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I agree its as much bullshit as playing moderator. But they lose no such right. you think they do but they actually don't. Its not factual and yet here you are trying to make it appear as such.

    I'm simply saying they lose no such right, they might be a bit silly buying games continually and complaining each time but they can complain. Certainly so.
    Aren't you MR.Literal, you knew very well what I meant...
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  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Aren't you MR.Literal, you knew very well what I meant...
    Well only now do I see what you were trying to say. (it is a text based forum I can't always be psychic you know). Personally I see it as this.

    I think anyone has the right to complain regardless of how many times they buy a product from any company. I might think they are a bit silly for buying their products after being bitten so many times though.

    With EA, I bought the command and conquer games but when 4 came I decided not to buy another CNC game. Turns out that was made easy for me. I then only bought mass effect 1 and 2 on a bundle on steam as a friend told me it was freaking awesome. I saw it was published by EA but bought it on the reference from my friend. Turns out I have 200 hours on both games now for under £10 thats great. Bought Battlefield 3 enjoyed it a lot and bought starwars old republic enjoyed it but not as much as I thought and dropped it after leveling to max. ME3 came out and I bought it didnt preorder. Found out to my horror what the ending was like and about the DLC. Have not bought from them since nor shall I until such a time the quality of their games improve.

    I complained about ME3 and rightly so, and have since voted with my wallet.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Well only now do I see what you were trying to say. (it is a text based forum I can't always be psychic you know). Personally I see it as this.

    I think anyone has the right to complain regardless of how many times they buy a product from any company. I might think they are a bit silly for buying their products after being bitten so many times though.

    With EA, I bought the command and conquer games but when 4 came I decided not to buy another CNC game. Turns out that was made easy for me. I then only bought mass effect 1 and 2 on a bundle on steam as a friend told me it was freaking awesome. I saw it was published by EA but bought it on the reference from my friend. Turns out I have 200 hours on both games now for under £10 thats great. Bought Battlefield 3 enjoyed it a lot and bought starwars old republic enjoyed it but not as much as I thought and dropped it after leveling to max. ME3 came out and I bought it didnt preorder. Found out to my horror what the ending was like and about the DLC. Have not bought from them since nor shall I until such a time the quality of their games improve.

    I complained about ME3 and rightly so, and have since voted with my wallet.
    Which is just fine, complaining about day one DLC's and then proceed to go buy buy Sim City 5 for example, only to one week later come on here and complain the game was shit and that EA are horrible publishers thinking people should take you seriously, is not. You (the general form) can obviously do that as claiming you have no right (literal) to is a futile as claiming you have no right to speak or breathe.

    Sadly way to many do just that, or similar actions like complain that EA ruined one of their favorite franchises to go buy a game from them in another franchise the day after, all because "they like that game" but "still hate EA".
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  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Which is just fine, complaining about day one DLC's and then proceed to go buy buy Sim City 5 for example, only to one week later come on here and complain the game was shit and that EA are horrible publishers thinking people should take you seriously, is not. You (the general form) can obviously do that as claiming you have no right (literal) to is a futile as claiming you have no right to speak or breathe.

    Sadly way to many do just that, or similar actions like complain that EA ruined one of their favorite franchises to go buy a game from them in another franchise the day after, all because "they like that game" but "still hate EA".
    Sadly while I was unsure of EA I did end up buying ME3 and BF3 direct from them, while I enjoyed both games the DLC aspect as well as the poor ending of ME3 left a sour taste in my mouth. I will buy from them again as long as the standard of that game is very high. if its anything of their current level my money stays where it is.

    I am glad I didn't buy sim city while it looks like a great game, the server issues and the amount of DLC they tied in seems a bit much.

    I know they killed westwood and bullfrog, but thats just general practice when you aquire another business. Take their assets and see if you can move things into your own infrastructure. That side of it doesnt really bother me. What bothers me if the games they produce are good or bad. After playing Me1 and 2 and seeing it was made by EA under bioware I figured i'd buy biowares games. STWOR was good but I felt it was trying to be like wow too much so dropped it as I preferred wow over it. ME3 when I got on to play was brilliant the DLC i was a bit annoyed at, then the ending made me rage like never before. I had BF3 already at this point (hugely enjoyed it) but now hearing bf4 is due out and seeing sim city, just dont see the point in giving over anymore money.

    Same with call of duty I stoped buying after MW2 bought that game and seeing how short the campaign was and how the game was a carbon copy of mw2 with just a few new features thrown in I didn't bother after that.

    I complain direct to the companies rather than on forums to really rant. Other than voting with my wallet its the only way they might notice things. PR stuns like this poll only humiliate them and they just try and spin doctor their way out of it.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    PR stuns like this poll only humiliate them and they just try and spin doctor their way out of it.
    Being publicly humiliated ensures they got the message though, which is the point of the 'price' in the first place.
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