Thread: [Ele] Trinket

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Wushoolay's is still pretty crap because of it's insane Amount of Hit.

    The Proc itself is ranked relatively high but actually being able to use this trinket without being seriously overcapped is quite difficult and requires pretty much to gem 160int in any Slot.
    yes its hard i am dranei so i got 1% more hit but still gemming acording to sokets except ring and now i al only 023% over hit with 58.3% mastery

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    On paper it would he best, in raid i doubt the leshen trinket will be so good . and councill trinket should he better and volitile isnt that good when you have gem. yday got my council trink and on leshen with Pe+eote and council trink+lfr hydra on pull such a insane burst and for most of the time councill trink proced right after it expired so elemental got 40sec of that trinket. only enha shamy beat my burst
    You understand that the volatile is simmed with the legendary gem and 4p setup, right?
    On pull dps really doesn't matter in most cases, a few fights favor very high bursts, but usually not in the start. The overall dps is more important.
    Also I'm sorry but your raid tries isn't even remotly close to valid evidence/proof. Simulationcraft does the same thing atleast 10000 times, i believe thier results more.

    Lei shen trinket is annoying to use, but it's our best choice if you can manage it. The int bonus is huge, and those extra 100% crits aren't bad either.

  3. #43
    well if we have 4 set on most fights you will have 1-1.5 mins uptime for ascendance where that trinket is worthless

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    well if we have 4 set on most fights you will have 1-1.5 mins uptime for ascendance where that trinket is worthless
    I'm fairly sure simulationcraft takes into consideration of that, but I've heard that the 4p isn't coded correctly so it could be truth.
    Still though, are we sure that it isn't better to use an earth shock or EB mid-ascendance when the trinket proc? Anyone got math on that? I know they hit for more but not sure about thier DPCT with 100% crit.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Ever since I got the 4pc its always mastery > haste ~= crit. You should check your parameters.
    I'm the same...haste still ranks higher...what parameters are you referring to?

    Can anybody confirm whether or not there is any point going higher than 6050 haste?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMusic View Post
    I'm the same...haste still ranks higher...what parameters are you referring to?

    Can anybody confirm whether or not there is any point going higher than 6050 haste?
    Parameters as in latest simcraft version, all buffs checked(?), etc. With 518 and legendary gem & 4pc I sim now Mastery > Haste > Crit. Is there a reason to not go over 6050 haste, in the first place? :>
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Parameters as in latest simcraft version, all buffs checked(?), etc. With 518 and legendary gem & 4pc I sim now Mastery > Haste > Crit. Is there a reason to not go over 6050 haste, in the first place? :>
    People in this thread and in the community don't like going over a certain amount of haste (15.38% was it?) because at that point, a 30% haste increase like Bloodlust or the meta gem pushes LvB below a 1s cast. Simcraft accounts for getting GCD capped, but some players would prefer not getting any more haste past this point regardless.

  8. #48
    Haste Caps & Breakpoints
    If you read up on most other spell casters, be they damage or healing, you'll see talk of "Haste Breakpoints". These are values of haste where additional ticks are added to particular DoTs & HoTs (Damage/Heal over Time). This does not apply to Elemental as our single DoT, Flame Shock, contributes approximately 5% of our damage. There will be some variation in haste around the breakpoints, but these variations are minor and should be not geared for, whereas the break points for healers are to do with mana efficiency and DoT centric casters like Affliction Warlocks are concerned with time efficiency.

    There are two haste caps, one "soft cap" at 50% where additional haste ceases to have any affect on Chain Lightning, Lava Burst and Shocks. The second is a "hard cap" at 100% where haste caps out on Lightning Bolt and Elemental Blast. Even though temporary haste buffs like Bloodlust and Elemental Mastery will push you over the 50% haste cap if you have more than 15.38% haste self buffed, it won't affect stat weights generated by SimulationCraft as it already takes this into account.

    However, the more haste you gain the less effective a talent like Elemental Mastery will be, thanks to that soft cap, which is why Echo of the Elements will be more valuable as gear levels increase.

    In short, the only cap you have to worry about is the hit cap.
    http://www.totemspot.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6829

    Dunno to what community the people in this thread belong.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelangelo View Post
    People in this thread and in the community don't like going over a certain amount of haste (15.38% was it?) because at that point, a 30% haste increase like Bloodlust or the meta gem pushes LvB below a 1s cast. Simcraft accounts for getting GCD capped, but some players would prefer not getting any more haste past this point regardless.
    I'm already on 7896 haste, and I've just got the legendary meta gem (and already have the 4 set) so I'm wondering at this point whether it's worth getting rid of some of the haste into crit (as I've already reforged what I can into mastery).

    Thoughts?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 06:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Parameters as in latest simcraft version, all buffs checked(?), etc. With 518 and legendary gem & 4pc I sim now Mastery > Haste > Crit. Is there a reason to not go over 6050 haste, in the first place? :>
    I must not be doing it right then because I re-simmed again with an up-to-date armory link import, with all the buffs checked and it is still telling me that haste>mastery>crit, even though I have 4pc and legendary meta gem....wtf :S

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    Supposedly? That was created today so I've got no idea why you're going all conspiracy theory on it.

    In any case, there is an update to the guide with a nice graph for the total worth of trinkets.
    Because that's just what they (reptilian overlords duh) WANT me to think.

    Kinda curious how older trinkets stack up to the lower ranked LFR versions on this list but i'll just sim it myself. Thanks for all the hard work.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMusic View Post
    I'm already on 7896 haste, and I've just got the legendary meta gem (and already have the 4 set) so I'm wondering at this point whether it's worth getting rid of some of the haste into crit (as I've already reforged what I can into mastery).

    Thoughts?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 06:57 PM ----------



    I must not be doing it right then because I re-simmed again with an up-to-date armory link import, with all the buffs checked and it is still telling me that haste>mastery>crit, even though I have 4pc and legendary meta gem....wtf :S
    What talents did you chose? EotE+EB+Meta+4pc on ilvl 518 will result in Mastery > Haste > Crit.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    What talents did you chose? EotE+EB+Meta+4pc on ilvl 518 will result in Mastery > Haste > Crit.
    Noting at my 521 ilvl + Meta + 4-pc +EoE/EB that while the weights state Mastery > Haste > Crit and that 2x Mastery > 1x Int > 2x Haste for me but the reforge plots tell me Haste > Mastery and that 2x Haste > 2x Mastery > 1x Int.

    @ Bink - Two questions. Would it be possible to have a setting for Wush in that graph that shows it at the value of reforged hit = mastery weight & reforged hit = haste weight to give people an easier idea of what they'd be looking at if they can use the secondary stat budget on Wush? Second, I can't for the life of me get simc to show me the SPA trinket as more valuable than any 522, I'm assuming it's b/c we're comparing my 521 gear vs a ~541ish profile or that you're doing single-trinket comparisons versus 2 trinket comparisons but it'd be nice to have confirmation on that score.

    Simc led me to: No trinkets - 129022
    Cha'ye + Shado'pan trinket - 153035
    Breath + Shado'pan trinket - 154238
    Breath + Cha'ye - 157958

    Showing to me that Breath 522 > Cha'ye 522 > Shado'pan rep trinket, running contrary to the spreadsheet indicating Shado'pan rep trinket > Breath > Cha'ye
    Last edited by Gistwiki; 2013-04-19 at 10:03 PM.
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    yes its hard i am dranei so i got 1% more hit but still gemming acording to sokets except ring and now i al only 023% over hit with 58.3% mastery
    Get even close to BiS Gear and this situation will look slightly different.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Gistwiki View Post
    Noting at my 521 ilvl + Meta + 4-pc +EoE/EB that while the weights state Mastery > Haste > Crit and that 2x Mastery > 1x Int > 2x Haste for me but the reforge plots tell me Haste > Mastery and that 2x Haste > 2x Mastery > Int
    Stat weights are generated by adding 1000 of a stat and seeing how much it benefits your simulated DPS. Reforge plots are made using the stats you have on hand. Assuming you're reforming all crit and spirit into haste and mastery, the changes you can incorporate from reforge plots are generally in gemming or enchanting.

    Make sure you're setting reforge numbers very high to see the kind of benefits you can get, and resin afterwards to get new stat weights and reforge plot.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Gistwiki View Post
    @ Bink - Two questions. Would it be possible to have a setting for Wush in that graph that shows it at the value of reforged hit = mastery weight & reforged hit = haste weight to give people an easier idea of what they'd be looking at if they can use the secondary stat budget on Wush? Second, I can't for the life of me get simc to show me the SPA trinket as more valuable than any 522, I'm assuming it's b/c we're comparing my 521 gear vs a ~541ish profile or that you're doing single-trinket comparisons versus 2 trinket comparisons but it'd be nice to have confirmation on that score.

    Simc led me to: No trinkets - 129022
    Cha'ye + Shado'pan trinket - 153035
    Breath + Shado'pan trinket - 154238
    Breath + Cha'ye - 157958

    Showing to me that Breath 522 > Cha'ye 522 > Shado'pan rep trinket, running contrary to the spreadsheet indicating Shado'pan rep trinket > Breath > Cha'ye
    It already does that.

    I'm doing a bit more advanced work than just comparing two profiles.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    It already does that.

    I'm doing a bit more advanced work than just comparing two profiles.
    The spreadsheet appears to value the hit on Wush @ ~1.076 per point. Why is that?

    Edit: Figured that out looking at the equation. 40% = what you can reforge on the piece itself. My question was more about the value of Wush if you're able to bring the rest of your gearset down to the hit cap making the value of the remaining hit equal to what you'd reforged the extra hit into across the rest of your gearset (meaning the value of the remaining hit would likely end up somewhere between the haste/mastery weights.)

    What exactly are you doing that the shado'pan trinket's value gets bumped up so high?
    Last edited by Gistwiki; 2013-04-20 at 01:47 AM.
    I love arguing! BRING ON THE TROLLS!

    Armory refuses to update even though my transfer's over a month ago (Gistwiki - KT - Indestructable) - http://bit.ly/ScUD0Z
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Gistwiki View Post
    What exactly are you doing that the shado'pan trinket's value gets bumped up so high?
    Nothing, that trinket has always been good for us. The best passive for us (Int, along with Lei-Shen) and a solid haste proc. Just because Haste becomes devalued at higher ilvls doesn't mean that Haste isn't good.

  18. #58
    Can't believe that chart O_O, i have shadow pan and wushoolays ( i actually use the hit ) and i thought those were the best, we gave unverring vision and dark animus trinket to offspecs : /

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelangelo View Post
    Nothing, that trinket has always been good for us. The best passive for us (Int, along with Lei-Shen) and a solid haste proc. Just because Haste becomes devalued at higher ilvls doesn't mean that Haste isn't good.
    Actually that is exactly what it having over 50% haste is a complete waste of haste since we GCD cap so eaisly and since FS is not a strong enough to to make hitting a break point worth wild we are just wasting the extra hase we have.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Gistwiki View Post
    What exactly are you doing that the shado'pan trinket's value gets bumped up so high?
    See the shado pan trinket as a direct upgrade to a 2/2 upgrade Sha HC 517 trinket, which was best in slot in the last content. Of course, this one would be atleast good for us.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

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