Best Ele Talents For Each TOT Fight?

**Foogyjenkins** · 2013-04-12, 10:46 PM

Hi, I have started raiding on my ele shaman and I want to maximize my dps in my guilds progression, but I do not know what talents to take in the dps tiers for each fight. As the title says, can anyone tell me he best talents to take per fight in normal TOT?

**Recom** · 2013-04-13, 04:18 AM

Figuring this out is part of the fun and there is sometimes no absolute answer since it depends on the strat you use, your raid comp, your gear and such.

Here goes nonetheless :

Pick Echo fo the Elements as your level 60 talent for every fight.

Jin'rokh : EB
Horridon : PE (EB is ok)
Council : EB
Tortos : PE
Magaera : EB
Ji-kun : EB
Durumu : PE
Primordius : EB
Animus : EB/PE, not sure
Iron Qon : EB
Twins : EB
Lei-shen : EB

**Foogyjenkins** · 2013-04-13, 04:25 AM

Ah... Ty very much! I have just one extra question, for Jin rokh, I see a lot of people going PE with AS and glyph of FeT and is this also viable or is EB and echo going to beat it? Thanks

**Foogyjenkins** · 2013-04-13, 04:29 AM

Thx for responding I will use all of these. Just one question, I have seen people do Jin rokh with PE and As with glyph of FET. Is this build just as good as EB and Echo for te fight or are some people just doing there own thing? Thx.

Deleted · 2013-04-13, 07:15 AM

I would disagree :P EotE is almost equal to EM on simcraft and it's rather case of convienience or burn phase. As for last tier I suggest unglyphed PE on Council as you want to burn Sul ASAP. For Tortos EB is also good as you want to nuke turtles quickly (though after recent nerf they aren't interrupting healers so much).

PS. As for Jin'rokh as I remember pet doesn't benefit from pools thus you lose benefit from it > Take EB.

**mrinvisable2** · 2013-04-13, 08:01 AM

PE benefits pools fire elemental without PE is guardian and dont benefit pool but talanted elemental benefits

Deleted · 2013-04-13, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dudko

PS. As for Jin'rokh as I remember pet doesn't benefit from pools thus you lose benefit from it > Take EB.

Wrong. PE does for sure, FE (afaik) not.

Above list seems interesting to me, I usually do not consider changing PE <-> EB much. I simply do not like EB. Maybe I try it more.

Deleted · 2013-04-13, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Recom

Pick Echo fo the Elements as your level 60 talent for every fight.

Jin'rokh : EB
Horridon : PE (EB is ok)
Council : EB
Tortos : PE
Magaera : EB
Ji-kun : EB
Durumu : PE
Primordius : EB
Animus : EB/PE, not sure
Iron Qon : EB
Twins : EB
Lei-shen : EB

I would disagree with a lot of this;

Jin'Rohk, you ideally want high, high burst (for pools), as well as high movement - therefore the fight heavily favours EM and PE. I personally use EM on-pull, Hero on the first pool with CDs, and then delay EM for the 2nd pool, since that's generally where 3 min CDs sit on the 1:30 mark.
Horridon, agree, although the burst is again very useful for nuking down add packs, since (at least on HC) your cooldowns align with the gates pretty well;
CDs on pull, EM up for nuking the last Wastewalkers/boss, CDs for Lava Beam spam on Venom Priests, EM for nuking the Champions/Frost lords, again for killing Flame Casters and bears. This is of course without T15 4p.
Council, agree.
Tortos, heavy movement -> PE.
Magaera, either PE or EB. I personally run EM/PE since I feel you can control the burst slightly better, and there's some slight downtime between heads.
Ji-Kun, PE is superior since I believe the Elemental benefits from the food buff, factor in downtime spent flying etc. Also, it's not worth it casting Elemental Blast on the adds when it's higher DPS to just 1button spam Chain Lightning. They die too fast.
Durumu, agree, although EB is perfectly possible, PE is far less stressful.
Primordius, I'm not 100% about this. There are benefits to both, however I like PE and EM. It depends on fight length and uptime, and what your job is (killing Bloods or nuking the boss). In our raid group at least, I can just about fit in 2 Ascendance/PE's glyphed with mutation before it dies.
Animus, because of how unlucky you can get with swaps, kiting the shit on the floor and the comparatively low HP on targets, and I would suggest PE. Also, minor point but PE isn't affected by cancelling casts for the silence if it isn't interrupted.

Iron Qon, either. Downtime in tornadoes phase probably favours burst over consistency, also the high movement in the 3rd phase around the boss could be annoying with EB.
Twins, either.
Lei-Shen, again, downtime in the phase transitions and taking EM for bursting the adds at the start of 2nd, generally favours PE and EM.

You need to bare in mind though that the legendary Meta gem seriously devalues Elemental Mastery, but conversely at lower item levels (closer to 500) it's very strong. I probably wouldn't use EM so much if you're using the Meta. Also, when you take PE and EM together, take the FE glyph to align them.

**Recom** · 2013-04-13, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dudko

I would disagree :P EotE is almost equal to EM on simcraft and it's rather case of convienience or burn phase. As for last tier I suggest unglyphed PE on Council as you want to burn Sul ASAP. For Tortos EB is also good as you want to nuke turtles quickly (though after recent nerf they aren't interrupting healers so much).

PS. As for Jin'rokh as I remember pet doesn't benefit from pools thus you lose benefit from it > Take EB.

EotE and EM are close in single target but EotE is far superior for aoe, especially if you have constant aoe. If you only need to burst a few seconds every 90/120 seconds (which is not the case in ToT) you can pick EM otherwise, don't.

Fair point about Council and to add to that, the reinforce from the Earth elem is nice on Kazra'jin BUT you also need heavy dps later in the fight since they generate energy faster every time they're possessed and EB helps with that so I'd say it's up to you.

I think EB is suboptimal for Tortos, there is suite some movement involved and you'll aoe for quite some time.

Deleted · 2013-04-13, 11:57 AM

Is there a way to establish which fights we want to be using glyph of FE on and if so, what's the basis for it please? Are there any fights where it's actually better to pick AS or is it always between EotE and EM?

Thanks.

**Recom** · 2013-04-13, 12:13 PM

If glyphing FE allows you to have a higher uptime then do so. For example a 4 min fight, without the glyph you can use FET once and it's gonna be up for 1 min, with the glyph you can drop it twice for a total of 72 sec so it's a slight gain. If there is a burst mechanic like Wind Lord Meljarak HM, using the glyph can be an increase. And lastly, using the glyph in combination with PE can be an increase (would have to sim to be sure).

I didn't tinker a lot with AS so I can't say.

Deleted · 2013-04-13, 12:45 PM

Also are there any definite haste values we should be aiming for? I've heard 6050 but other than because stacking too much haste when under the affect of hero is not beneficial, I don't know really no why...can anybody confirm this please?

---------- Post added 2013-04-13 at 01:47 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Recom

If glyphing FE allows you to have a higher uptime then do so. For example a 4 min fight, without the glyph you can use FET once and it's gonna be up for 1 min, with the glyph you can drop it twice for a total of 72 sec so it's a slight gain. If there is a burst mechanic like Wind Lord Meljarak HM, using the glyph can be an increase. And lastly, using the glyph in combination with PE can be an increase (would have to sim to be sure).

I didn't tinker a lot with AS so I can't say.

Thanks, much appreciated.

Which fights in ToT would u say this applies to mostly?

**Designate** · 2013-04-13, 04:33 PM

AS is a good talent when paired with PE, because the elementals use the 10% melee haste it gives, and the 5% haste it gives you is only slightly behind EotE.

Deleted · 2013-04-14, 02:21 AM

Thanks for the lists... but in my own experience its most likely have to do what Stats you are going with. EotE + EB works better with a Mastery built and EM + PE works great with a Haste/crit build.

So i suggest that people look @ there stat weights and if you are heavy on mastery then go for EotE + EB over EM+PE. With my playstyle i went up with about 10k DPS when i went to 10k+ Mastery rating and EotE + EB. I have been trying a Haste built, with both choices of talents but it was all behind my mastery built.

Deleted · 2013-04-14, 09:04 PM

Thanks about explanation regarding EotE superiority on cleave fights I'll do some testing then. But remember that EM gives you little more control on some phases (it's not always down to DPS on fight), EM is handy if you have to quickly nuke some pack of adds (from my experience on it's great on 2nd gate at Horridon, bats at Tortos, eggs on Ji-Kun etc.)

**Recom** · 2013-04-14, 10:04 PM

You don't have to clear the 2nd door ASAP, you have to clear every door asap. Losing DPS on the 1st or 3rd door to increase your DPS on the 2nd door is not really an option. Same goes for bats, why would you burn one every 3 packs ? Constant aoe dps is better.

It could be usefull for Ji-kun if you decide to take PE and use it after getting a nutriment but I don't think it's necessary for the eggs, depends on the guild comp and all

EotE vs. EM for aoe (using my gear) :
EotE : 633800 DPS
EM : 500600 DPS

So yeah EotE trumps EM for aoe.

**korlach** · 2013-04-15, 06:57 AM

what he's saying is having some extra burst can come in handy depending on situation. The 2nd door is a great example because extra burst could be the difference between killing a venom priest before it spawns an effusion or not. I know it helped when my guild was 1st attempting that fight.

**Kralljin** · 2013-04-15, 06:59 AM