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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhaveros View Post
    I never said add more instance content. I said tabards would be one(Not the only) of the best solutions to the dailies because the players don't like doing dailies but they need the rep. The issue is rep and how it's acquired. Currently dailies are the only way to gain any significant amount. If you can think of a better solution let me know but for now I hold to my statement that tabards are one of the best solutions to the issue of dailies.
    You do realize a major reason why dailies are a focus of Mop is because Blizzard wants players out in the world right? Tabards just simply aren't coming back because it encourages players to spend all their time locked away in instanced dungeons. Rather than complain about what you don't have why not suggest new methods of handling rep and getting players out in the world? The fact that most people who complain about rep and dailies never seem to want to suggest anything other than grinding 5 mans leads me to wonder if this was ever about fun and if it was always about the path of least resistance.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 07:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    Yup, blizzard is happy that they keep losing subscribers i am sure of it.

    This expansion did not draw people in, it alienated people instead, so yeah they are pretty happy that they lost subs, while they keep doing things nobody wants.
    And yet despite the supposed mass exodus over cross realm zones, LFR, dailies and rep that QQers were claiming was going to happen, Mop as of the last reported quarter was 400k above Cata's subscriptions at the end of that expansion.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    However I no longer think that Blizzard are capable of learning from their mistakes and many of the blue posts are more concerned with defending their actions to unhappy players than taking on board their feedback..
    There's a difference between "defending their actions to unhappy players" and politely telling those players with stupid ideas that would ruin the game that they're stupid and there's a reason they don't design games for a living.

    If they didn't learn from their mistakes they wouldn't have given us an expansion that is entirely different from Cataclysm from start to finish and they wouldn't have toned down the importance of dailies after 5.1.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    You do realize a major reason why dailies are a focus of Mop is because Blizzard wants players out in the world right?
    I wonder, though. What players want to be back "out in the world"?

    If "out in the world" is the scheme of dailies since MF, where you do 3 here in order to go do 4 there so that you can to 2 over there and finally do one here, I don't fucking want to be out in the world. I want to be by the AH mailbox waiting for a queue to pop.

    Blizzard needs to make being out in the world not suck ass.

    They do a great job of creating a pixel world but often they make it a shitty pixel world to live in.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhaveros View Post
    Lol good to know. I don't know individual members on here except for two that grind my gears each thread they post in.

    But anyway, I still hold true to my theory that the issue of dailies would nearly be solved(I say nearly because noobs would prefer they just start exalted with each faction) if Blizzard added tabards to dungeons.
    Except Blizzard has pretty much said rep tabards won't be making a return. Give it up already.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Except Blizzard has pretty much said rep tabards won't be making a return. Give it up already.
    I wouldn't bet my worst enemy's money that rep tabards won't be coming back.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I wonder, though. What players want to be back "out in the world"?

    If "out in the world" is the scheme of dailies since MF, where you do 3 here in order to go do 4 there so that you can to 2 over there and finally do one here, I don't fucking want to be out in the world. I want to be by the AH mailbox waiting for a queue to pop.

    Blizzard needs to make being out in the world not suck ass.

    They do a great job of creating a pixel world but often they make it a shitty pixel world to live in.
    I like how you ignored the part where I said people should start coming up with ideas for new types of content in the open world instead of dailies.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    I like how you ignored the part where I said people should start coming up with ideas for new types of content in the open world instead of dailies.
    I didn't ignore it. I didn't care about it.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I wouldn't bet my worst enemy's money that rep tabards won't be coming back.
    What makes you think Blizzard would bring them back? That would pretty much invalidate a majority of the work they have put into Mop content and their various efforts in getting players moving through the world again instead of being camped out in cities in a queue. So yet again if you don't like grinding dailies for rep why don't you suggest other methods that involve being out in the world? Blizzard is far far far more likely to listen to feedback when it takes their current design philosophy in mind. It is only when players refuse to compromise at all that Blizzard digs in their heels on these kinds of issues.

  9. #209
    Id say they are very happy. It has been a great xpac. The over all player reaction has been very good.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I didn't ignore it. I didn't care about it.
    Right. Ok then. Clearly you people want a pity party instead of solutions. Have at it. I'm out.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    What makes you think Blizzard would bring them back? That would pretty much invalidate a majority of the work they have put into Mop content and their various efforts in getting players moving through the world again instead of being camped out in cities in a queue. So yet again if you don't like grinding dailies for rep why don't you suggest other methods that involve being out in the world? Blizzard is far far far more likely to listen to feedback when it takes their current design philosophy in mind. It is only when players refuse to compromise at all that Blizzard digs in their heels on these kinds of issues.
    The time I spend "out in the world" in MoP on my max level toons is spent:

    * Riding (not flying) through random trash mobs to a quest giver who is going to give me 2-6 quests that I need to finish to unlock 2-6 other quests that I need to unlock 2-6 ot ... okay nevermind
    * Killing mobs with excessive health, compared to the good old days, that is, the entire rest of WoW, where you were always killing mobs with 2/3 you health not 1.5x your health. Gosh it's FUN to do this on a character that doesn't have a DPS spec.
    * Did I die? Oh, cool, now it might be time to play a monochrome platforming game to see if I can get back to my corpse.

    As far as dailies go the people at Blizzard are just clueless fucking idiots as to what is enjoyable and compelling and makes people not want to find another game to play.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    And yet despite the supposed mass exodus over cross realm zones, LFR, dailies and rep that QQers were claiming was going to happen, Mop as of the last reported quarter was 400k above Cata's subscriptions at the end of that expansion.
    Not to be a doomsayer, but WoW jumped up passed 10 million and then 3 month later drops back down to 9.6 million. I fully expect the next call to be down to 9 million, maybe less. It takes a couple of months for the things that people hate to bring them to a breaking point. If MoP drops belows Cata's Subsciption numbers are we claiming MoP a failure ? I don't think so. Nor can we claim it success because for 6 months it matched or beat Cata's ending numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    As far as dailies go the people at Blizzard are just clueless fucking idiots as to what is enjoyable and compelling and makes people not want to find another game to play.
    I strongly disagree there. I couldn't have predicted that everyone and their mothers would have convinced themselves that the dailies were mandatory. I figured everyone would have been like me, I'll do them and then I'll stop when I'm bored with them. What Blizzard did learn is that if there is a shiny trinket at the end of the tunnel, everyone will claim it's mandatory that they clear the tunnel.
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-04-16 at 12:17 PM.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Not to be a doomsayer, but WoW jumped up passed 10 million and then 3 month later drops back down to 9.6 million. I fully expect the next call to be down to 9 million, maybe less. It takes a couple of months for the things that people hate to bring them to a breaking point. If MoP drops belows Cata's Subsciption numbers are we claiming MoP a failure ? I don't think so, do we can't claim it great success because for 6 months is matched or beat Cata's ending numbers.
    I don't think that MoP is going to wind up increasing WoW's subscription numbers. But I'm not sure that anything on Earth or in Heaven could do that. WoW is most likely as popular as any game of its genre could possibly be at this point in time and space.

    I suspect that everyone at Blizzard expects subscription numbers for WoW to taper off significantly in the coming years. If WoW has 5 million subs 3-4 years from now, that would most likely be fine. What needs to happen, a few years down the road, is a "WoW 2" that allows WoW players to move over, maintaining some continuity with their existing characters.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Not to be a doomsayer, but WoW jumped up passed 10 million and then 3 month later drops back down to 9.6 million. I fully expect the next call to be down to 9 million, maybe less. It takes a couple of months for the things that people hate to bring them to a breaking point
    Alternately, those who really hate the expansion may tend to quit early, and the loss will slow after that. This was the pattern in Cataclysm, where the loss in Q1 2011 was twice that of Q2 2011. (The loss picked up again in Q3 when China got Cataclysm.)

    WoW activity, as tracked by WCR, showed a big peak and decline after MoP came out. It then largely flattened out, maybe a very slight decline. In Cataclysm, the prolonged decline was stronger.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I don't think that MoP is going to wind up increasing WoW's subscription numbers. But I'm not sure that anything on Earth or in Heaven could do that. WoW is most likely as popular as any game of its genre could possibly be at this point in time and space.
    I did giggle at the folks who claimed pre-launch that MoP will get WoW back to 12 million. I think WoW's ship has sailed and that a decline is all that is left. I expect a massive drop after the end of the next Xpac. I do feel bad for the guys at Blizzard who are working extremely hard on the newer content. If we continue to see a steady decline, some of their best work may be missed or dismissed because of what Xpac it was in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    WoW activity, as tracked by WCR, showed a big peak and decline after MoP came out. It then largely flattened out, maybe a very slight decline. In Cataclysm, the prolonged decline was stronger.
    On a somewhat funny side, If Blizzard maintains their currently schedule goal. MoP may lose less people than other Xpacs because it will be the shortest of the Xpacs. If so, now we'll have to use fancy math in arguing which Xpac had the greatest and least losses. don't forget to carry the 2!
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-04-16 at 12:44 PM.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    On a somewhat funny side, If Blizzard maintains their currently schedule goal. MoP may lose less people than other Xpacs because it will be the shortest of the Xpacs. If so, now we'll have to use fancy math in arguing which Xpac had the greatest and least losses. don't forget to carry the 2!
    I think the biggest danger for sub numbers is going to be not long after 5.4 when people have seen most of the content and a lot of players focus their attention to alts. Unless you are right that this is going to be a short expansion I think unless they have a serious rethink about the gear catch up system then I think we'll be seeing losses in similar numbers to Cata.

    On a related note to WCR, Xfire is showing an almost 20% decline in activity since the beginning of the year but whether this translates in similar loss of subs remains to be seen.
    Last edited by Pann; 2013-04-16 at 12:46 PM.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I think the biggest danger for sub numbers is going to be not long after 5.4 when people have seen most of the content and a lot of players focus their attention to alts. Unless you are right that this is going to be a short expansion I think unless they have a serious rethink about the gear catch up system then I think we'll be seeing losses in similar numbers to Cata.

    On a related note to WCR, Xfire is showing an almost 20% decline in activity since the beginning of the year but whether this translates in similar loss of subs remains to be seen.
    I seriously hope 5.4 won't be like cataclysm where we have one tier/season for 1 freaking year.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I think the biggest danger for sub numbers is going to be not long after 5.4 when people have seen most of the content and a lot of players focus their attention to alts. Unless you are right that this is going to be a short expansion I think unless they have a serious rethink about the gear catch up system then I think we'll be seeing losses in similar numbers to Cata.
    I agree with this. Also, I tend to get more PvP focused at the end of an expansion, but if they don't fix up casual PvP (gear disparity mainly) that's not going to be worthwhile.

    I've really wondered how LFR is going to be handled in the final raid. If there's no strong incentive to use it to gear up, then LFR-only players will run it once and unsub until the next expansion. In Cataclysm the idea was you'd do LFR, then move on to normals, but it's not clear there's enough of that audience left.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    I seriously hope 5.4 won't be like cataclysm where we have one tier/season for 1 freaking year.
    I'm so confident that is not going to happen, that I'm going to go out on a limb right now and predict new Xpac announced at Blizzcon with a release date as early as January!

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I've really wondered how LFR is going to be handled in the final raid. If there's no strong incentive to use it to gear up, then LFR-only players will run it once and unsub until the next expansion.
    5.4 or whatever SoO is, will become super Alt friendly and we're be back to running 3-5 alts a week

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    we're be back to running 3-5 alts a week
    I already do that. >.>
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

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