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  1. #1

    Garrosh..disappointment

    Alright so, I was recently re-leveling my monk through horde areas and there are at least two notable instances where Garrosh enforces moral beliefs that COMPLETELY conflict with his current state. As much as people hate leveling, and as hard as it is to make a character seem likable when he was already seen as hot headed and brash before hand, I dont understand what could have possibly occurred between Garrosh in Stonetalon/Twight Highlands and Garrosh now.

    If anyone remembers, he kills one of his Generals for dropping a bomb on innocents (conflicting with him bombing theramore).

    In Twilight Highlands, he tries to show his leadership and fearlessness by riding into the Highlands aboard a Warship with the player.

    This Garrosh...it's like they kept the same character model and did a 180 on everything that he had worked for in the previous expansion.

  2. #2
    mindcontrol maybe ? old gods, legion....

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord Gimlix's Avatar
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    Stonetalon are one of the best leveling zones if not best leveling zones in whole WoW, story is so amazing.
    I don´t know what happened too, but there must be a reason why Garrosh has changed so much over the years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkin View Post
    no king rules forever, but WoW is a stubborn bastard.

  4. #4
    its just unreal, the stonetalon quest for the Horde really set apart what it meant to be part of the horde. That war was inevitable but how you carried out your actions was everything. To never forsake honor. This Garrosh...this isn't the Garrosh that any of us knew. Garrosh was growing to a great figure, he was going in a direction that I could say was good character development...

  5. #5
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Garrosh had shades of the whole noble savage thing back in Heart of War, The Shattering and Cata. Sure, he was hotheaded, battle-loving and reckless, but he also at least tried to enforce a "no wife, no kids" approach.

    He was essentially at a fork in the road. He could turn left and, as Metzen put it, "straighten out and become an epic Warchief," or turn right, and become an evil raid boss. Guess which route they chose.

  6. #6
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Yeah, I can already see the responses. "They ruined Garrosh, this is the Garrosh I loved, they made him a meany because of people whining about him and now he's a bad guy and its completely out of character, waahh!"

    Its time people manned up and realized that this was blizzards plan all along, they even told you long before pandaria that garrosh was a temp warchief, and yet because of some of the stuff he did such fans form the opinion that he was a permanent fixture?

    Also, Christie Golden highlighted the major fault in Garrosh as she worked close with the developers and knows the characters well, saying on Garrosh is a deeply malleable character, he is one who easily falls to corruption, because at his core he's a very weak willed character who gives into things like bloodlust, power and corruption easily.

    What you saw in stonetalon and twilight highlands was nothing more then the stepping stones to what lead to how he is now. It was done as an ironic twist by the story writers to have him kill one of his commanders for doing a dishonorable act like bombing the tree in stonetalon, only for him to be just as dishonorable in the bombing of theramore.

    You can outright say he got inspiration from the bombing in stonetalon, but covered his ass in his scheme to use that same method, well appearing like he was revolted by it. He secretly loved the idea of bombing his enemies, and didn't let on until it was to late to stop him.

  7. #7
    Dreadlord Prancing Minstrel's Avatar
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    The Stonetalon place was a neutral druid hub, wasn't it? I'm sure there were Tauren there. He's always had a mindless hatred of the Alliance.

    EDIT: Wowpedia'd it, it was a neutral druid training area. If it was an Alliance base he probably wouldn't have given a shit. Not big change in character I can see.
    Last edited by Prancing Minstrel; 2013-04-21 at 05:21 PM.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Xiphan's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly, in Twilight Highlands he got distracted by a small Alliance fleet and commanded his forces go attack them just because, leaving his air fleet defenceless to the Twilight Dragons' attack, almost getting himself and the entire fleet killed. It seems pretty consistent to his character - arrogant and blinded by hatred (stemming from no-one seems to know where) of the alliance, sacrificing his forces without thinking if it means a victory against the alliance. He's just become a little more overt with it recently, and hasn't done anything "epic" like cleave a dragon to distract the players from the reality of his actions.

    The Stonetalon situation is the only really out of character appearance, so if anything that should be considered the character 180, not everything before and after. Although I think it can be justified by the time it took place - he was only recently made Warchief at that point and was still finding himself somewhat, taking advice from good people and not the new crowd of bad eggs he's surrounded himself with.
    Last edited by Xiphan; 2013-04-21 at 05:28 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post

    If anyone remembers, he kills one of his Generals for dropping a bomb on innocents (conflicting with him bombing theramore).

    In Twilight Highlands, he tries to show his leadership and fearlessness by riding into the Highlands aboard a Warship with the player.

    This Garrosh...it's like they kept the same character model and did a 180 on everything that he had worked for in the previous expansion.
    Him riding a warship into twilight highlands says nothing about his morals. In fact, he attacks the alliance unprovoked and gets his airships wrecked by doing so. So he was aggressive and stupid then, just as he is now.

    And for him killing the general, his last words were "I was just following your orders." Shame that there is no one alive who can possibly elaborate on that.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post

    Its time people manned up and realized that this was blizzards plan all along, they even told you long before pandaria that garrosh was a temp warchief, and yet because of some of the stuff he did such fans form the opinion that he was a permanent fixture?
    Got source?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkin View Post
    no king rules forever, but WoW is a stubborn bastard.

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk gypsybob's Avatar
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    Another thread? this is getting ridiculous.

  12. #12
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Got source?
    go find it yourself, I wouldn't be making that statement if it wasn't there to be made.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Got source?
    Any thread about Garrosh or Thrall will see Trassk appear, like the Candyman, and try to force everyone into agreement with him, no matter how many valid counter-arguments he has to ignore in the process.

    You won't find a source that explicitly states Garrosh was only a short term Warchief, because there isn't one. It's merely implied. Azeroth, like the real world, changes; applying what was said in The Shattering in a series of absolutes doesn't help anyone, but I look forward to seeing it happen.

    As is usual with Trassk.

    And your question will likely be answered the way it always is with Blizzard storytelling.

    Corruption.

  14. #14
    I don't think they were really that much of a character change. He hasn't really changed his morals since then he has just become more desperate. The reason he intervened at stonetalon was the general was about to bomb a neutral civilian target, but Theramore at the time of its bombing had been evacuated of all civilians it was 100% a military target. It also was used to show his growing desperation because he wants to be seen as a great warchief and thinks that by crushing the Alliance he can do that, but as the war goes on and on he becomes more desperate going from bad decisions, to WMDs, to corrupting his soldiers with sha... etc.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wonktnodi View Post
    Him riding a warship into twilight highlands says nothing about his morals. In fact, he attacks the alliance unprovoked and gets his airships wrecked by doing so. So he was aggressive and stupid then, just as he is now.

    And for him killing the general, his last words were "I was just following your orders." Shame that there is no one alive who can possibly elaborate on that.

    It's only unprovoked if youre not already at war with them. It's just taking advantage of your enemies at that point. And when the general said he was "following your orders", its because he misunderstood what Garrosh's orders had been. It's fairly evident and you can disagree all you want that Garrosh did do a 180 from being a possible great warchief to this. Even the short story for Garrosh highlighted his desire to only do good for his people, that his hatred for the alliance was built on more of the completely biased hatred they have towards orcs. Garrosh wasn't part of the old horde, he had no interaction with the Alliance until essentially Wrath. All his hatred for the alliance is based off of what he's seen from that point on.

    Sure he's prone to corruption, but who isnt? If a character is totally good and unable to be corrupted they have no room for development. Ultimate power corrupts Ultimately.

    And stop with this whole "Blizzard" decided it to go this way, so lets see it go this way. Make actual post, say something to back up your point. Blizzard created the whole game, the reason the leaves are the color they are is because of them, we already know that. Say something that contributes to why or why not you think his character arc took this progressive path.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Yeah, I can already see the responses. "They ruined Garrosh, this is the Garrosh I loved, they made him a meany because of people whining about him and now he's a bad guy and its completely out of character, waahh!"

    Its time people manned up and realized that this was blizzards plan all along, they even told you long before pandaria that garrosh was a temp warchief, and yet because of some of the stuff he did such fans form the opinion that he was a permanent fixture?

    Also, Christie Golden highlighted the major fault in Garrosh as she worked close with the developers and knows the characters well, saying on Garrosh is a deeply malleable character, he is one who easily falls to corruption, because at his core he's a very weak willed character who gives into things like bloodlust, power and corruption easily.

    What you saw in stonetalon and twilight highlands was nothing more then the stepping stones to what lead to how he is now. It was done as an ironic twist by the story writers to have him kill one of his commanders for doing a dishonorable act like bombing the tree in stonetalon, only for him to be just as dishonorable in the bombing of theramore.

    You can outright say he got inspiration from the bombing in stonetalon, but covered his ass in his scheme to use that same method, well appearing like he was revolted by it. He secretly loved the idea of bombing his enemies, and didn't let on until it was to late to stop him.
    I don't think you understand the reason he killed Krom'gar. It wasn't "You used a bomb! Shame on you!" It was "You bombed children!" The school that was bombed was not a millitary target. Theramore was. So regardless of whether you think using a mana bomb is a dishonorable means, the two situations aren't quite the same. He has nothing against bombs, but it seems even Garrosh is against killing helpless children. (He even made a comment as such to Ishi in 5.1.) If Krom'gar had dropped that bomb on a night elf millitary base there wouldn't have been an issue.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    Garrosh had shades of the whole noble savage thing back in Heart of War, The Shattering and Cata. Sure, he was hotheaded, battle-loving and reckless, but he also at least tried to enforce a "no wife, no kids" approach.

    He was essentially at a fork in the road. He could turn left and, as Metzen put it, "straighten out and become an epic Warchief," or turn right, and become an evil raid boss. Guess which route they chose.
    I've always seen it like this. He's never really been the Warchief you think he was, based entirely around morals and honor. There'd always been a side of him dedicated to honor, and another which followed a more savage way of thinking.

    Theramore was an Alliance harbor, regardless of whether or not it claimed to be neutral, as it supplied the Alliance fores in the Southern Barrens. Meanwhile, the druid enclave in Stonetalon was completely neutral. Additionally, while you can say that he tried to show his leadership and fearlessness by accompanying the player into the Twilight Highlands, he also makes the reckless decision of ordering away his air support for the sake of attacking Alliance ships. So the way I see it, he's just been developing into what he is now, though he could have developed into something completely different.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Got source?
    They've said that garrosh was always intended as temporary. That doesn't neccisarily mean he was always planned as a raid boss though.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-21 at 12:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    I've always seen it like this. He's never really been the Warchief you think he was, based entirely around morals and honor. There'd always been a side of him dedicated to honor, and another which followed a more savage way of thinking.

    Theramore was an Alliance harbor, regardless of whether or not it claimed to be neutral, as it supplied the Alliance fores in the Southern Barrens. Meanwhile, the druid enclave in Stonetalon was completely neutral. Additionally, while you can say that he tried to show his leadership and fearlessness by accompanying the player into the Twilight Highlands, he also makes the reckless decision of ordering away his air support for the sake of attacking Alliance ships. So the way I see it, he's just been developing into what he is now, though he could have developed into something completely different.
    Theramore was pro peace but very much a part of the Alliance, anyone who says it was neutral in the sense that Dalaran was neutral in wrath/cata is pulling something of their ass.


    As for his character change, it all comes down to pride. Pride in himself and the orcs to a fault. Wanting to see his people prsoper no matter what it took. Invading other lands, using his allies as fodder. And when he's dealt a loss...oh boy does he take it bad. Just look at Tides of War. He wasn't even really defeated in the grand scheme of things there. He destroyed two alliance bases, and the alliance managed to take one of them, Northwatch, back. And what does he do? Call every able bodied horde member into the war effort, even children.

    He did have the potential to be a better leader, sadly though he let his pride get the better of him. That doesn't mean the potential was never there to begin with though.
    Last edited by Malzra; 2013-04-21 at 05:49 PM.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer leaks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    I don't think you understand the reason he killed Krom'gar. It wasn't "You used a bomb! Shame on you!" It was "You bombed children!" The school that was bombed was not a millitary target. Theramore was. So regardless of whether you think using a mana bomb is a dishonorable means, the two situations aren't quite the same. He has nothing against bombs, but it seems even Garrosh is against killing helpless children. (He even made a comment as such to Ishi in 5.1.) If Krom'gar had dropped that bomb on a night elf millitary base there wouldn't have been an issue.
    That and he turned on the Tauren in the area to try to cover up what he did. The bomb itself was never the problem and I'm surprised people still get that wrong.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  20. #20
    Quit making threads like these, you'll attract traa...oh, nevermind.

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