1. #1

    [Ele] Wushoolay's Final Choice 10th stack usage

    I managed to snag the tasty Wushoolay trinket and its pretty interesting, if not unreliable. Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ngelo/advanced

    Now the good thing is that since Elemental is not DoT focused, we don't have to worry about reapplying everything at the 10th stack of the trinket buff before it falls off like an Affliction lock would, but I also think its important not to ignore the huge 13,330 Intellect buff you have for the last 2 seconds.

    Right before the stack wears off, I'm wondering if its worth it to Fulmination or even Flame Shock above hard-casting LvB, LB, or Ele Blast. My reasoning is that the shocks are insta-cast so they'd have the 13k Int buff, whereas the hard casts would finish casting after the buff wears off. Would love some input into whether or not its worth doing an insta-cast at 10 stacks instead of hard-casting something. If this proves to be the case, it's time to start tracking the buff.


    For fun I tested with no procs or buffs except the trinket.

    Lava Burst, with FS up and no Int buff = 112,664
    7 Stack Fulmination, 13k Int buff = 156421.8 (including Earth Shock) with no Crit on either ES or Fulm

  2. #2
    if you have <1sec left on the buff use fulmination, otherwise follow your normal rotation.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    if you have <1sec left on the buff use fulmination, otherwise follow your normal rotation.
    This is what I reasoned, but I think it only applies at high stacks of Lightning Shield.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelangelo View Post
    This is what I reasoned, but I think it only applies at high stacks of Lightning Shield.
    yes 6-7 stacks

  5. #5
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    deep south
    Posts
    30
    i am noticing certain times where flame shock usage can be favorable with wushoolay's at 10 stacks. i am currently running breath of the hydra, wushoolay's, i have the meta gem, and on certain fights we pop heroism on the pull. in many cases all of these buffs are present on the pull. raid buffed without procs my tooltip shows flame shock deals about 115k damage. with all procs up, and clearcasting present after my initial ascendance on the pull, flame shock tool tip shows upwards of 350k total damage at times, not including crits, applying this again on the pull means that i would flame shock at the end of wushoolay's, so approximately 20 seconds into the pull, or with ~11 seconds on my original flame shock remaining. basically losing about 30k damage on original flame shock give or take, but more damage per cast than a non crit fulmination, even with high stacks.

    and much more often than not i do not start an encounter with 7 stacks as we have been wiping a lot : )

    but i would say that certainly applying flame shock with wushoolay's is something to look into, seeing as it is the only spell that doesn't haste cap that we have. i thought i saw somewhere that at a certain percentage of haste, our flame shock stops gaining extra ticks, but i have tested this on a dummy and it is not true, with hero+meta gem i get 22 ticks of flame shock after the initial hit, vs. 17 with just the meta and 13 ticks with no procs up. it is extremely hard not to go over 100% haste with both meta and hero up, and even in simcraft i'm showing haste with a higher value than mastery or crit by a fairly significant amount in my current build
    Last edited by bokonan; 2013-04-12 at 08:32 PM. Reason: tool tip values

  6. #6
    Boko I think that if you have low time on your Flame Shock than absolutely, but if you've already refreshed Flame Shock during Wushoolay's I don't think you need to again at the end of it, even with the buff. The damage difference from casting Flame Shock halfway through Wushoolay's to at the end of the buff is about equal to a LB cast anyway, no?

    So maybe, if Flame Shock hasn't been refreshed during the buff (or was refreshed very early), refresh it on the 10th stack?

  7. #7
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    deep south
    Posts
    30
    sorry if i was unclear, but most of what i was referring to has to do with a boss on the pull. either way, most boss pulls will include the following rotation:

    prepull (pot, fire ele), precast (EB, LB), flameshock, (at this point all trinkets and procs should be up and running, breath of the hydra might wait until the first tick of flame shock to activate if you are using it), lava burst, then pop ascendance and spam lava burst. by the end of ascendance, you should have about 2 seconds left on wushoolay's lightning and about 11 seconds left on the initial flame shock (which with your prepot should be about 150k total damage depending on whether your raid popped hero before or after your flame shock, if at all).

    at this point in my rotation, with one 30% haste buff up (hero or the meta gem), my tooltip value for flame shock is showing about 350k total damage from flame shock, if i get a second proc on my meta gem and we heroed on the pull, it's even higher because i get another 5 ticks of flame shock. this is a pretty ridiculous damage per cast for an instant cast spell. certainly higher than fulmination even with 7 stacks. you do have to factor in the lost damage on the initial flame shock, which i will try to figure out later today when i have more time, but i would put it somewhere between 30 and 50k damage you are losing, plus you can factor in additional ticks for surge procs you will gain from reapplying your flame shock if you have any other haste buffs than when you first cast it.

    either way i am seeing it, flame shock with ridiculously high haste values which can certainly be had on boss pulls is probably more effective than even a 7 stack fulmination

    EDIT: i am also going to look closer at fulmination with 7 stacks here. obviously no benefit from haste buffs, but with all int procs up and running and a prepot, my crit value is going to be somewhere close to 30%, 400k damage from a 7 stack fulmination+earth shock would be easily attainable, although 1 in 3 crits isn't a really spectacular crit chance, and it's rare to have a 7 stack pre pull when working on progression bosses
    Last edited by bokonan; 2013-04-12 at 08:57 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bokonan View Post
    sorry if i was unclear, but most of what i was referring to has to do with a boss on the pull. either way, most boss pulls will include the following rotation:

    prepull (pot, fire ele), precast (EB, LB), flameshock, (at this point all trinkets and procs should be up and running, breath of the hydra might wait until the first tick of flame shock to activate if you are using it), lava burst, then pop ascendance and spam lava burst. by the end of ascendance, you should have about 2 seconds left on wushoolay's lightning and about 11 seconds left on the initial flame shock (which with your prepot should be about 150k total damage depending on whether your raid popped hero before or after your flame shock, if at all).

    at this point in my rotation, with one 30% haste buff up (hero or the meta gem), my tooltip value for flame shock is showing about 350k total damage from flame shock, if i get a second proc on my meta gem and we heroed on the pull, it's even higher because i get another 5 ticks of flame shock. this is a pretty ridiculous damage per cast for an instant cast spell. certainly higher than fulmination even with 7 stacks. you do have to factor in the lost damage on the initial flame shock, which i will try to figure out later today when i have more time, but i would put it somewhere between 30 and 50k damage you are losing, plus you can factor in additional ticks for surge procs you will gain from reapplying your flame shock if you have any other haste buffs than when you first cast it.

    either way i am seeing it, flame shock with ridiculously high haste values which can certainly be had on boss pulls is probably more effective than even a 7 stack fulmination

    EDIT: i am also going to look closer at fulmination with 7 stacks here. obviously no benefit from haste buffs, but with all int procs up and running and a prepot, my crit value is going to be somewhere close to 30%, 400k damage from a 7 stack fulmination+earth shock would be easily attainable, although 1 in 3 crits isn't a really spectacular crit chance, and it's rare to have a 7 stack pre pull when working on progression bosses
    you realize this trinket is a stacking int buff right not haste?

  9. #9
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    deep south
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    you realize this trinket is a stacking int buff right not haste?
    if you can read my posts, you would realize i never referred to the wushoolay's proc as haste in any way, shape, or form. please read or don't post.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal Platex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Heaven, with Kanye to my right hand.
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by bokonan View Post
    if you can read my posts, you would realize i never referred to the wushoolay's proc as haste in any way, shape, or form. please read or don't post.
    What he means is that Flame Shock doesn't snapshot spell power when you cast it, only haste - ergo, it's essentially a waste since it will revert to a "normal" Flame Shock as soon as the 2 second buff falls off.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Platex View Post
    What he means is that Flame Shock doesn't snapshot spell power when you cast it, only haste - ergo, it's essentially a waste since it will revert to a "normal" Flame Shock as soon as the 2 second buff falls off.
    This is incorrect, please try and understand how DoTs work. If you're bored, cast Flame Shock at different levels of spell power (change gear, wait for a proc) and notice that the initial hit and the ticks do more damage,

    Spell power increases damage. Haste increases ticks.

    I'm definitely noticing higher DPS after the trinket fades if I full charge ES or if I refresh FS with low time left at the last possible second.

  12. #12
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    deep south
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by Platex View Post
    What he means is that Flame Shock doesn't snapshot spell power when you cast it, only haste - ergo, it's essentially a waste since it will revert to a "normal" Flame Shock as soon as the 2 second buff falls off.
    yes, dots snapshot all stats, totems do not. fire elemental used to snapshot stats in cataclysm but this was changed. totems/elementals now scale dynamically with buffs

  13. #13
    Bokonan, refreshing at 10 stacks gives my Flame Shock 11k ticks non-crit, and with your timing refreshing an 11 second FS seems to be better for DPS than lightning bolt filler.

  14. #14
    Sorry for bump, but is it efficient to delay Ascendance until Wooshoolay's start proccing? Int burst is huge, but then again, RPPM seems really unreliable as for my test on Durumu fight (8 min long, 99,8% active time I had 16,5% uptime; Magaera fight 7 min long 99,9% active time 15% uptime) and this is normal version of trinket, I'm bit disappointed... But still its better cause Sha trinket really badly synergise with Shado-Pan trinket.

  15. #15
    There's really only two situations to look at, Dudko:

    Beginning of fight. Assuming you haven't attacked anything in a while, it will instantly proc, or almost instantly (by the time you'd start Ascendance after EB, FS, Fire Ele, Stormlash, LvB). In that case you want to time Ascendance so it ends at the same time your 10th stack of Wooshoolay's ends.

    Ending of a fight. If you're sure you only get one more Ascendance in the fight, you can wait a bit to see if it will proc first or to time it with another cooldown/potion. Imperative you get that cast off and don't delay it too much, and ensure you're not missing out on one last Ascendance by waiting.

    Middle of a fight, don't delay Ascendance for Wushoolay's, it is way too unreliable. Honestly if it wasn't RPPM we could time it better and maybe it would be a DPS upgrade to wait for ICD to end, but you never know if it will proc 22 seconds after the last proc or 2 minutes after.

  16. #16
    Ok nice tip! So it's best to pop ascendance at beginning /end fight at about 2-3 stacks. Any data about wooshoolay's uptime? Had I bad streaks or what? 15% is really low uptime...

  17. #17
    Mine is showing 19% uptime and upwards, normal version of the trinket, but I may have more haste than you (especially with the legendary gem).

  18. #18
    Shouldn't 1 RPPM be 33% uptime?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •