1. #1

    Int vs Mastery (Resto)

    Hey all. Long time forum creeper, first time posting.

    I have read up on our harmony mastery buff as much as possible and am having trouble finding any information on this.

    I was just wondering how much intellect is better than 1% mastery. In my current gear, I have a few 80int/160mastery gems in red sockets instead of 160 int gems in order to get enough mastery to go up a % in the buff. However, I was just curious if there is a threshold amount of int that I can gain that will negate the 1% mastery bonus. Currently, I can gain about 320 int for a loss of 2% mastery. What is better?

    Any insight would be appreciated. i raid in a 25 man environment and dont seem to have mana issues when around 9k mana. So now I'm just trying for max throughput.

  2. #2
    2 mastery provide a bit more healing than 1 int for current gear levels. So for gemming, mastery is slightly better than int. Also, there are no mastery breakpoints (re: "go up a % in the buff").
    Gemming int only gives an advantage for HotW dps and when using items for Moonkin offspec.

  3. #3
    Doesn't int scale with HotW either way. That puts it ahead. I think most use hybrid gems and even pure into for red.

  4. #4
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrix View Post
    Hey all. Long time forum creeper, first time posting.

    I have read up on our harmony mastery buff as much as possible and am having trouble finding any information on this.

    I was just wondering how much intellect is better than 1% mastery. In my current gear, I have a few 80int/160mastery gems in red sockets instead of 160 int gems in order to get enough mastery to go up a % in the buff. However, I was just curious if there is a threshold amount of int that I can gain that will negate the 1% mastery bonus. Currently, I can gain about 320 int for a loss of 2% mastery. What is better?

    Any insight would be appreciated. i raid in a 25 man environment and dont seem to have mana issues when around 9k mana. So now I'm just trying for max throughput.

    Taken from the resto guide on EJ

    http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130799-...a_5_2_a/#Stats

    Intellect:
    Intellect provides 1 spellpower and 0.00039% to crit per point.

    Several abilities and bonuses may interact with Intellect to provide an increased value for each point of Intellect that you have. There are three main abilities that will have this effect: Leather Specialization (5%), Heart of the Wild (6%) and Mark of the Wild (5%). As such, assuming use of Leather Specialization and MotW, 1 point of intellect will be worth 1.1025. If you add in Heart of the Wild 1 point of intellect will be worth 1.169 (this will also provide you with 0.00046% crit per point). Note that it takes 2168 points per 1% crit, which is about 3.5 times weaker than 1 crit rating.

    Intellect will be your best stat for throughput.

    Mastery rating:
    480 mastery rating adds 1% to our Harmony bonus. This is essentially a flat bonus to all healing (albeit an additive bonus, so slightly weaker than it looks). Aside from haste breakpoints, mastery is the secondary stat giving the best throughput.


    This mean your 2% Mastery is 960 rating. The Int you gain should be 374, if you didn't include buffs (1.169 * 320 = 374.08) . Since Mastery gems give you 2 * the points of Int gems (160 * 2 = 320), the amount of Mastery you gain needs to be double the amount of Int you gain.

    So, 374 * 2 = 748.

    960 (2%) mastery is better then the Int, in this case.

    If you only gained 1% mastery (480 rating), the 374 Int would be better, since you would need at least 748 mastery to break even with Int.

    Hopefully that makes sense, and I didn't provide sleepy math.
    Last edited by Souxlya; 2013-04-27 at 12:39 PM.

  5. #5
    So if my calculations are right, a orange gem 80int + 160 mastery is better than a pure yellow gem,320 mastery.

    The difference between the 2 gems is -80int and + 160 mastery. Therefore, I need 1.169*80*2= 187.4 mastery to make up for the loss of 80int.

    So In conclusion orange gem > pure yellow.

    One other thing is, how do we factor in the int flask we use?

  6. #6
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumbi View Post
    So if my calculations are right, a orange gem 80int + 160 mastery is better than a pure yellow gem,320 mastery.

    The difference between the 2 gems is -80int and + 160 mastery. Therefore, I need 1.169*80*2= 187.4 mastery to make up for the loss of 80int.

    So In conclusion orange gem > pure yellow.

    One other thing is, how do we factor in the int flask we use?
    You should be able to do the exact same thing. 1.169 * 1000 = 1169

    The same would go for 300 int food. 1.169 * 300 = 350.7

    1.169 is just the value of 1 int with buffs. So no matter what you are doing, you should be able to multiply 1.169 by the actual amount of int on the item you are looking at.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by thumbi View Post
    So if my calculations are right, a orange gem 80int + 160 mastery is better than a pure yellow gem,320 mastery.

    The difference between the 2 gems is -80int and + 160 mastery. Therefore, I need 1.169*80*2= 187.4 mastery to make up for the loss of 80int.

    So In conclusion orange gem > pure yellow.

    One other thing is, how do we factor in the int flask we use?
    http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130799-...ria_5_2_a/p22/

    "TotalSP = 22605 + 0.5843*mastery

    That I think is the most useful result. If the left side of above equation is higher, gem mastery, if the right side is higher, gem Int."

    So no. Pure yellow gem > orange gem if you have T14+ gear

  8. #8
    Thanks for the link. Kinda mind blown but at least now i know what i should do.

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Old's Avatar
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    If you are specced into HotW, intellect is still superior.

    I had my own spreadsheet and yes mastery is/was better than intellect (2:1 ratio) when specced out of HotW. But I have yet to include include the recent +10% healing as well as +3,33% from NV if you have it, because it slightly lowers the effectiveness of mastery.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Old View Post
    If you are specced into HotW, intellect is still superior.

    I had my own spreadsheet and yes mastery is/was better than intellect (2:1 ratio) when specced out of HotW. But I have yet to include include the recent +10% healing as well as +3,33% from NV if you have it, because it slightly lowers the effectiveness of mastery.
    The link I posted provided the calculation, which is calculated as specced into HotW.
    But it *seems* that the formula does not consider the crit given by int. This will undervalue int for like 10%(guesstimation).(Not so sure about this, so correct me if i'm wrong) So you are probably right.

    That said I still believe there is a point that mastery is bettwer than int (2:1) even with HotW. With T15 gear I think it's pretty close.

    As for the +10% buff or 3.33% from NV, I believe it's a flat increase in healing output which does not affect the "ratio" of int/mastery.
    However shrooms should favor mastery as they double dip mastery.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal Old's Avatar
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    You can completely ignore crit. This is a terrible stat and the gain from gems is very minor therefore negligible.

    My spreadsheet was giving me perfect values, approved by testing (just swapping gems in your belt buckle socket). I was getting up to 25% gain from gemming Mastery instead of Intellect, without HotW. The key factor was simply getting a proper weapon because it's a straight up spellpower increase that only interact with mastery, not intellect.

    Values and math I was using are roughly the same as from the EJ posts but with a more empirical approach, done mid-October.

    Yesterday I tested the same, specced into HotW and I'm getting way more from Int than from Mastery.

    The +10% buff we have as passive effectively lowers mastery if it works the same way every single flat buff ever worked (as I remember from Cataclysm). Gaining 1% in your Mastery is not giving you +1% healing. I'll try to fix my spreadsheet and give some feedback.

  12. #12
    Hi Old,

    Quick question about your recent testing. When you say "yesterday I tested the same, specced into HotW and I'm getting way more from Int than from Mastery". Do you mean that on a 1:1 ratio. Or do you mean you are getting way more from 1 int than from 2 mastery? Thanks!

  13. #13
    The MoP 10% Naturalist buff was found to be multiplicative, not additive like it was in cata. The formula already takes HOTW into acount since more int from HoTW is more spellpower . Remember to include the 10% spellpower buff, 5% stats buff and the mastery buff (3k i think) since all those affect it.

    With current gear (502+) you should have enough that 2 mastery>1 int

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    The MoP 10% Naturalist buff was found to be multiplicative, not additive like it was in cata. The formula already takes HOTW into acount since more int from HoTW is more spellpower . Remember to include the 10% spellpower buff, 5% stats buff and the mastery buff (3k i think) since all those affect it.

    With current gear (502+) you should have enough that 2 mastery>1 int
    Do you add in the gems before calculating? Or after calculating which stat is better?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Old View Post
    You can completely ignore crit. This is a terrible stat and the gain from gems is very minor therefore negligible.

    My spreadsheet was giving me perfect values, approved by testing (just swapping gems in your belt buckle socket). I was getting up to 25% gain from gemming Mastery instead of Intellect, without HotW. The key factor was simply getting a proper weapon because it's a straight up spellpower increase that only interact with mastery, not intellect.

    Values and math I was using are roughly the same as from the EJ posts but with a more empirical approach, done mid-October.

    Yesterday I tested the same, specced into HotW and I'm getting way more from Int than from Mastery.

    The +10% buff we have as passive effectively lowers mastery if it works the same way every single flat buff ever worked (as I remember from Cataclysm). Gaining 1% in your Mastery is not giving you +1% healing. I'll try to fix my spreadsheet and give some feedback.
    You can't ignore crit. 1 Crit rating is like 0.9 mastery rating.
    As I mentioned in the previous post, if you ignore the crit provided by int you are undervaluing int by 10-12%.
    This could change the gem choice. And I realize that crit rating also affect gem choice as the more crit you have, the less value they are.
    This lowers the value of int as int gives crit.

    My buffed stat is like 38000 Sp, 12800 mastery, 22% crit with HotW. The EJ spreadsheet tells me that 2 mastery > 1 int a bit.

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