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  1. #41
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalfears View Post
    I Main a boomkin and i feel we are in a great spot currently the one of if not the best Single target caster. .
    I'm sorry, what? Really? WHAT!?

    Our single target is horrible compared to other classes. We fail to long cast times, range of SS not procing of over procing, Starfall hitting immune targets or ones that don't require any dps anyway, and we are to Nature's grace dependent! On top of that the only thing that Moonkin have for themselves is burst, every single bit of our dps is based off of burst, not just our cds. And last. . . but not least, we have no execute.

    I am not even going to go into our movement dps and the total failure that it is, sure it isn't as bad as Wrath. . . But I'll be damned if that means it is good in it's current state!
    Last edited by Souxlya; 2013-04-21 at 09:10 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by kendro1200 View Post
    It's not even rankings, it's the fact that absorbs remove a huge chunk of the pie available for everyone to heal.

    Honestly, what they should be doing is start making boss mechanics that go straight through paladin and priest absorbs. It's a simple fix that will give shamans and druids the opportunity to heal everyone up.
    I feel this would only be a fix for certain bosses, and druids already have certain bosses where they get their glory. I think something more drastic along the lines of making absorbs only absorb 66% of a hit while the other 33% is translated to damage anyway could help bridge that gap.
    Last edited by Salanis; 2013-04-18 at 08:14 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Souxlya View Post
    I'm sorry, what? Really? WHAT!?

    Our single target is horrible compared to other classes. We fail to long cast times, range of SS not procing of over procing, Starfall hitting immune targets or ones that don't require any dps anyway, long travel times of spells and delay on SS, and we are to Nature's grace dependent! On top of that the only thing that Moonkin have for themselves is burst, every single bit of our dps is based off of burst, not just our cds. And last. . . but not least, we have no execute.

    I am not even going to go into our movement dps and the total failure that it is, sure it isn't as bad as Wrath. . . But I'll be damned if that means it is good in it's current state!
    Maybe your doing something different then me but i top my guilds dps meters on every fight but tortos because they have me on turtle kicking duty(idk why) im also the least geared dps in the raid iron qon i smoke the rest of the dps

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Souxlya View Post
    I'm sorry, what? Really? WHAT!?

    Our single target is horrible compared to other classes. We fail to long cast times, range of SS not procing of over procing, Starfall hitting immune targets or ones that don't require any dps anyway, long travel times of spells and delay on SS, and we are to Nature's grace dependent! On top of that the only thing that Moonkin have for themselves is burst, every single bit of our dps is based off of burst, not just our cds. And last. . . but not least, we have no execute.

    I am not even going to go into our movement dps and the total failure that it is, sure it isn't as bad as Wrath. . . But I'll be damned if that means it is good in it's current state!
    I'm gonna agree with primal dude. Balance has it pretty set this tier of raiding. How many fights do you have the tab123 top the meters. By 1, 2, 3, I meen MF SF and Starsurge. There are what 4 fights in TOT that are single target + the fact that any horde Boomkin worth his beak is troll. So at least 2 of those you get the amp'd up beast damage from your racial. Once again the neglect factor comes in just because I the lack of orange text in patch notes is as common for balance as any other druid spec. At the very best current content should camoflage the weaknesses in the balance spec.

  5. #45
    Indeed , current resto druid position is terrible. I had the pleasure of being unbenched last week because one of our healers left , I could only compete with our shaman and holy(sometimes) priest but overall bosses died and all was fine. This week we got a new paladin and here I am benched again. The thing is, I was a raid leader in the past and I would have done the same thing. At the moment, taking a resto druid over a holy paladin is just stupid , unless the paladin plays blindfolded.

    In my opinion , nerfing the strength of pallys and disc shields might bring us up. Considering that what the shield did not manage to absorb our hots will heal up. Though this might bring up QQ'ing from the other classes about feeling weak. But , to be honest , the raw hps issue is not really the only one. We severely lack utility. Our only really 'good' raid CD is Tranquility which could be done even better by balance druids with HotW( wtf seriously? ) and restricts our movement for 8 seconds , basically making it a viable CD almost never.

    Although I have played a resto druid since TBC , and I love this class , at the moment I seriously consider rerolling to a monk or a dps class. I will let this tier play out( on the bench probably :\ ) and see what 5.3 brings in. But I have a feeling that if this issue wont be resolved before the next raid tier , there will be a lot less tree's running around.
    Last edited by Xsy; 2013-04-18 at 12:45 PM.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by primalfears View Post
    Maybe your doing something different then me but i top my guilds dps meters on every fight but tortos because they have me on turtle kicking duty(idk why) im also the least geared dps in the raid iron qon i smoke the rest of the dps
    WTB armory link/logs. If you top the meters in your guild, no offense but your other players are terrible and should brush up on how to play their class.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    WTB armory link/logs. If you top the meters in your guild, no offense but your other players are terrible and should brush up on how to play their class.
    true story there

    Please don't respond to a thread just to say "^this' or similar. Infracted.
    Last edited by Sunfyre; 2013-04-18 at 04:21 PM.

  8. #48
    I find moonkin atm "ok" now we are getting our gear and our crit is rocketing up it feels abit nicer. Ofc we have our flaws getting a double starsurge proc and only getting to use one is annoying :P our aoe dps makes me cry aswell xD but i think we just need some tweeks here and there. some changes to Symbiosis would be nice. Like.. instead of getting AMS from a DK couldnt we get "Pesilence" or somthing so we can spread out 2 dots in 1 move. give it a 1min or even 2min CD or somthing. I feel Symbiosis has alot it can give to a raid aswell as the druid. But it feels abit.. "rushed" in my eyes. Alot of the spells it gives are useless imo, like.. giving a Balance druid Purge while giving a resto Spiritwalkers Grace? yes its nice with Tranq but.. wouldnt it of been better for a moonkin to keep there movement DPS up lol. I see why it wouldnt be done tho as people would bitch who gets to sym who and so on.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    WTB armory link/logs. If you top the meters in your guild, no offense but your other players are terrible and should brush up on how to play their class.
    It's very easy to see that he is right. Don't look at his parses, they don't mean anything. Just look at overall parses.

    As you can see on Raidbots, Balance is currently in a very good spot for single target bosses. On Jin'rokh, only rogues and fire mages are better. On Durumu and Iron Qon, we're in a pretty good position despite our movement lacking dps (which is basically our only problem at the moment). For all other bosses, we're in the middle of the pack, nowhere seriously falling behind (and even #1 for multi-dot fights like Megaera).

    Claiming Balance is bad is just wrong, or shows that you have not mastered your spec in MoP.

  10. #50
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    I think that big part of issues of Rdruids is fact that since wotlk they toolkit havent changed that much, while all other classes were being rebalanced. For me it feels like druids are simply relic of past atm. Nourish and healing touch are pretty much useless atm. Mushrooms while "funny" lacks power to make them justified part of rotation, or even respectable cooldown. Its just adorable little heal that works in lfr stacking phases. I alos think that we never really recowered from loss of perma tree form. I really hope that druids will face class overhaul soon.

  11. #51
    Old Tree form was a way to hobble the class in disguise. It was always a necessary shapeshift in raids, it used to slow you down, lock out healing touch, roots, all dps, and make you goddamn banishable in pvp.
    All for a huge raid buff from spirit to healing. When druids were done being the Survival hunters of healing, it became a personal buff and throughout its various incarnations it was either a pointless requirement, or from a more cynical point of view, it was shafting caster form druids out of a huge throughput buff.

    You were screwed with it and screwed without it, you're better off in caster form in a game where tree form doesn't give you a healing buff.
    Take moonkin form too! The damage reduction, moonkin aura and damage buff could all be given to humanoid form. It's absolute ass apart from providing disengage with wild charge, and a shapeshift immune humanoid form, which is a damn sight better than being an elemental. At least Moonkin form is sometimes helpful, tree form was not.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I think that big part of issues of Rdruids is fact that since wotlk they toolkit havent changed that much, while all other classes were being rebalanced. For me it feels like druids are simply relic of past atm. Nourish and healing touch are pretty much useless atm. Mushrooms while "funny" lacks power to make them justified part of rotation, or even respectable cooldown. Its just adorable little heal that works in lfr stacking phases. I alos think that we never really recowered from loss of perma tree form. I really hope that druids will face class overhaul soon.
    I'm sorry what? Mushrooms are very useful on alot of fights. Sure of course on the movement heavy fights they are still quite terrible but on fights like Jin'Rokh, Magera etc? They are fantastic and the highest I have seen them crit so far is 410k.

    We never recovered from the loss of tree form? So I guess your one of those resto druids that uses 'tree form' as a crutch for an excuse to be a shitty healer am I right?

    Druids were in a terrible spot in 5.1 everyone knows that, But in 5.2 I feel we got buffs which were reasonable enough for us. That 10% buff to our healing really helped us out. And yes from the looks of it Priests/Paladins will be the top heals all expansion, But we are nowhere near as bad as we were before.

    Stop using Tree form as a crutch and realize...holy shit, Druids can actually heal just fine with tree form on a 3 minute cooldown. I suppose you just have to have a brain to make it work.
    Last edited by Elysara; 2013-04-18 at 07:55 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysara View Post
    I'm sorry what? Mushrooms are very useful on alot of fights. Sure of course on the movement heavy fights they are still quite terrible but on fights like Jin'Rokh, Magera etc? They are fantastic and the highest I have seen them crit so far is 410k.

    We never recovered from the loss of tree form? So I guess your one of those resto druids that uses 'tree form' as a crutch for an excuse to be a shitty healer am I right?

    Druids were in a terrible spot in 5.1 everyone knows that, But in 5.2 I feel we got buffs which were reasonable enough for us. That 10% buff to our healing really helped us out. And yes from the looks of it Priests/Paladins will be the top heals all expansion, But we are nowhere near as bad as we were before.

    Stop using Tree form as a crutch and realize...holy shit, Druids can actually heal just fine with tree form on a 3 minute cooldown. I suppose you just have to have a brain to make it work.
    Pay no attention to the Naysayers. It is entirely possible for a resto druid to top the meters as things stand. I play more than a little bit agressively to get there but its doable.(in 10man) I haven't played 25 in a good long time exception of lfr and everyone knows lfr doesn't count. I do hate how effortless the same level of healing seems to come to other healers though. My biggest gripe is when i chill on the healing in those progression fights where every little bit counts and I use a good bit of wrath and mf as filler my dps on the meters doesn't reflect the skill involved to time that into my rotations keeping up hots and only dps in the off time. Then you look at disc who mindlessly smite spam. I see a good deal of smite nerf comming down the mountain but look at those damage increased fights where they shit on us in both dps and their atonement does massive heals and snipes everything we do. Lei shi comes to mind that fight made me die a little inside when i saw how high I ranked do very little and was still half the healing numbers of our disc priest who didn't rank at all.

  14. #54
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...ne/?enc=bosses logs

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fears/advanced armory

    i am not the best boomkin by any means but it we are in a good place currently now in saying that ya we could use a buff to movement dps or aoe damage but if they buff those they will nerf our single target dps

  15. #55
    Pay no attention to the Naysayers. It is entirely possible for a resto druid to top the meters as things stand. I play more than a little bit agressively to get there but its doable.(in 10man) I haven't played 25 in a good long time exception of lfr and everyone knows lfr doesn't count. I do hate how effortless the same level of healing seems to come to other healers though. My biggest gripe is when i chill on the healing in those progression fights where every little bit counts and I use a good bit of wrath and mf as filler my dps on the meters doesn't reflect the skill involved to time that into my rotations keeping up hots and only dps in the off time. Then you look at disc who mindlessly smite spam. I see a good deal of smite nerf comming down the mountain but look at those damage increased fights where they shit on us in both dps and their atonement does massive heals and snipes everything we do. Lei shi comes to mind that fight made me die a little inside when i saw how high I ranked do very little and was still half the healing numbers of our disc priest who didn't rank at all.
    I agree with you on 10 Men fights but most of the 10 men require 2 healers so you can manage there but as 25 men where most guild stacking holy pala and Disc priest it is so difficult to compete with them its not only the healing is matter its the utility also lets compare the druid with other healers

    1. Shaman = Healing Tide, Spirit Link, Stormlash, Manatide, HP increae, Dmg Decrease.
    2. Monk = Life Cocon, Mana Tea for constant mana Regen
    3. Priest = Atonement (Smart Healin, Note=No need to traget any player just hit boss), Pain Suprresion, Void Shift, Bubble, Mana Hym, Pet for mana Regen, Rupture for Mana Regen, Spirit Shell,
    4. Paladin = Beacon of Light, Devotion Aura, Level 60 Talent Celemency can use there some of very good cool downs 2 times and unbreakable Absorb Shield with mastery

    and know lets see the druid

    Tranquility (note Boomkin Tranq with HotW heals the double amount of resto tranq with harmony active and shaman healing tide heals at least 20% more and in mean time he can use his other spells also)

    Barkskin 20% dmg reduction

    Swiftmend compare to healing rain= we need to target a person for AOE heal instead of shaman just target the ground where most people are and SM ahve 15 sec cooldown in fights like magera healing raid done tons of healing we cast our swiftmend 15 sec cd 1 time healing is shit, WG 10sec cd and healing is shit atm then whole rampage time i need to blanket raid with reju where disc priest and holy pala sniping all the Hots.


    Note: all above mainly concern 25 men

    Know tell me if you are a raid leader where u have druid in grp and still he is doin good healing and you got some disc priest, shaman, monk or Holy paladin will still give a spot to resto druid or the other healer even ur in 10 men while druid can do better in 10 men but if other healer can give u more benefit than druid why u put druid in group.

    and thats not it getting broke in start of expansion means slow in all the expansion know we are half way to next expansion and here we are that no one wants a resto druid in raid team
    Last edited by devildjz; 2013-04-19 at 05:42 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by devildjz View Post
    I agree with you on 10 Men fights but most of the 10 men require 2 healers so you can manage there but as 25 men where most guild stacking holy pala and Disc priest it is so difficult to compete with them its not only the healing is matter its the utility also lets compare the druid with other healers

    1. Shaman = Healing Tide, Spirit Link, Stormlash, Manatide, HP increae, Dmg Decrease.
    2. Monk = Life Cocon, Mana Tea for constant mana Regen
    3. Priest = Atonement (Smart Healin, Note=No need to traget any player just hit boss), Pain Suprresion, Void Shift, Bubble, Mana Hym, Pet for mana Regen, Rupture for Mana Regen, Spirit Shell,
    4. Paladin = Beacon of Light, Devotion Aura, Level 60 Talent Celemency can use there some of very good cool downs 2 times and unbreakable Absorb Shield with mastery

    and know lets see the druid

    Tranquility (note Boomkin Tranq with HotW heals the double amount of resto tranq with harmony active and shaman healing tide heals at least 20% more and in mean time he can use his other spells also)

    Barkskin 20% dmg reduction

    Swiftmend compare to healing rain= we need to target a person for AOE heal instead of shaman just target the ground where most people are and SM ahve 15 sec cooldown in fights like magera healing raid done tons of healing we cast our swiftmend 15 sec cd 1 time healing is shit, WG 10sec cd and healing is shit atm then whole rampage time i need to blanket raid with reju where disc priest and holy pala sniping all the Hots.


    Note: all above mainly concern 25 men

    Know tell me if you are a raid leader where u have druid in grp and still he is doin good healing and you got some disc priest, shaman, monk or Holy paladin will still give a spot to resto druid or the other healer even ur in 10 men while druid can do better in 10 men but if other healer can give u more benefit than druid why u put druid in group.

    and thats not it getting broke in start of expansion means slow in all the expansion know we are half way to next expansion and here we are that no one wants a resto druid in raid team
    For 25m I can see what I'm about to say as being no way near as important, but on 10m with limited numbers, Stampeding Roar is quite helpful and our big iconic spell Symbiosis can bring some great utility in a number of ways. I constantly switch it up, pally's for disease dispel on horridon, deterrence from hunters for lei shen, spirit walkers grace off shamans on a lot of fights. I still agree we could do with atleast something else but those two while not being healing related are still pretty damn useful.

  17. #57
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beastest View Post
    I'm gonna agree with primal dude. Balance has it pretty set this tier of raiding. How many fights do you have the tab123 top the meters. By 1, 2, 3, I meen MF SF and Starsurge. There are what 4 fights in TOT that are single target + the fact that any horde Boomkin worth his beak is troll. So at least 2 of those you get the amp'd up beast damage from your racial. Once again the neglect factor comes in just because I the lack of orange text in patch notes is as common for balance as any other druid spec. At the very best current content should camoflage the weaknesses in the balance spec.
    . . . explain to me what this has to do with my point of our single target being bad compared to other casters? On top of that, proving my other point that we are to burst oriented (troll racial). Our long term multi target dps is totally reasonable, maybe even over powered. But single is horrible unless it is a 100% patchwerk, and even then people of our same skill level will kill us in dps for single target on a different class in less gear. You need to look at the other casters and us as a whole. Not, MOONKIN ARE FINE CUZ THEY OP RACIALS AND I TOP METERS DERP!

    All the druid specs need more love. Balance is one of them. We would shine and be on equal ground with the other classes if they change our mechanics a little, not the damage our of abilities.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Souxlya View Post
    . . . explain to me what this has to do with my point of our single target being bad compared to other casters? On top of that, proving my other point that we are to burst oriented (troll racial). Our long term multi target dps is totally reasonable, maybe even over powered. But single is horrible unless it is a 100% patchwerk, and even then people of our same skill level will kill us in dps for single target on a different class in less gear. You need to look at the other casters and us as a whole. Not, MOONKIN ARE FINE CUZ THEY OP RACIALS AND I TOP METERS DERP!

    All the druid specs need more love. Balance is one of them. We would shine and be on equal ground with the other classes if they change our mechanics a little, not the damage our of abilities.
    My point was the lack of much single target dps fights this teir. It's hard to complain about single target dps when you have dots rolling on a few targets and starsurge procing every few seconds. As I said before 4 out of 12 single target fights and Ji'kun only counts as single targets if you don't fly so 3? Don't give the the BS that if you can you don't multidot. Like I said before you have both mobility and strong dps for multi target fights I know you lack in movement its one of the reasons I don't play boomkin. Though your single target damage may be a bit low it does seem to scale well on fights like jin'roc where you get a huge damage buff especially one with predictable timing.

  19. #59
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beastest View Post
    1:My point was the lack of much single target dps fights this teir. 2:It's hard to complain about single target dps when you have dots rolling on a few targets and starsurge procing every few seconds. As I said before 4 out of 12 single target fights and Ji'kun only counts as single targets if you don't fly so 3? 3: Don't give the the BS that if you can you don't multidot. 4: Like I said before you have both mobility and strong dps for multi target fights I know you lack in movement its one of the reasons 5:I don't play boomkin. 6:Though your single target damage may be a bit low it does seem to scale well on fights like jin'roc where you get a huge damage buff especially one with predictable timing.
    1: Just because there are few single target fights this tier doesn't diminish how much we lag behind on it compared to other casters. Mulit-target and single target are the two constants throughout WoW history for boss fights.

    2: How does "single target" equal "A few targets"? As I said in the very post you quoted, I am not complaining about multi-target, even saying it is/could be over powered with our mechanics changed. So don't use that as a reason I can't complain about our single target dps.

    3: What the heck are you talking about me giving you BS? Not once did I say anything about multi dotting or not mulit-dotting if I could? I know I damn well don't multi dot where it isn't needed, and any GOOD moonkin wouldn't. Protectors of Endless Springs is a good example. It is useless to multi-dot, they heal, you waste GCD on dotting and more starsuge procs would overwrite each other for what? Meter padding? Horridon is another example, if all a moonkin ever did is multi dot on that fight they would have huge numbers, but if the right adds aren't dying it is useless dps. A meter padding moonkin isn't a good one.

    4: I'm really starting to think you got your thoughts so jumbled that you couldn't clearly say what you wanted, or you've been trolling the whole time. Our "Mobility" is horrible. We can hold a starsugre proc for movement, wasting dps when it is overwritten by another proc, or we can moonfire/sunfire spam, which is a dps loss because we often overwrite the dot that is buffed from any beneficial procs! Having something and actually being able to use it and not have it be a bigger dps loss to use doesn't make it a "strong mobility". I have bear form, last I checked that didn't make me an awesome tank.

    5: Then don't you think you have a less clear picture of our issues? As a whole anyway?

    6: What class doesn't do well with better gear, huge damage bonuses, and predictable ones at that? None! Though admittedly we scale a bit better then most classes do with more gear. The only reason we appear to be a bit better at that fight then we really are is our burst. Burst is not sustained and does not make up for single target fights that don't make us hit like a godzilla-lazerchickens.
    Last edited by Souxlya; 2013-04-19 at 09:39 AM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Souxlya View Post
    1: Just because there are few single target fights this tier doesn't diminish how much we lag behind on it compared to other casters. Mulit-target and single target are the two constants throughout WoW history for boss fights.
    The funny thing is, moonkins are #3 on Jin'rokh HC, which is definitely a single target fight. This means that either we are not lagging behind (on the contrary), or only on some single target fights (e.g. with a lot of movement). Anyway, your claim that balance single target is terrible is obviously false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Souxlya View Post
    3: What the heck are you talking about me giving you BS? Not once did I say anything about multi dotting or not mulit-dotting if I could? I know I damn well don't multi dot where it isn't needed, and any GOOD moonkin wouldn't. Protectors of Endless Springs is a good example. It is useless to multi-dot, they heal, you waste GCD on dotting and more starsuge procs would overwrite each other for what?
    You don't know what you're talking about. Multi-dotting the second target INCREASES the damage done to the primary target. This is easy to see, just multi-dot one week and not multidot the next. The overall damage is irrelevant, but the important "single target" damage is increased by multi-dotting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Souxlya View Post
    4: Our "Mobility" is horrible.
    Yes. This is currently our problem. Not single target dps.

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