Why does everyone hate LFR?

[Grumpy Old Man]

I find LFR great for casual raiders like me to gear up for normal raiding.

But saying that LFR is good to learn the bosses - no. Just no.

[rhapso]

I don't mind going in with my badly geared character to get gear upgrades. I hate being forced to run LFR with my main for certain tier token and certain trinkets.
I'd much rather see a LFR without loot, this would actually emphazise the whole experience of raiding and not being afk and getting loot. I currently run LFR with my twink as tank and my main following my twink on the other screen - and you never see more than 4 healers in the meters, so I'm sure not the only one cheesing that part.

EDIT: Also, LFR usually ignores the key mechanics of certain fights and alters the fights (while some fights are funnily dumbed down on certain aspects, and others wipe you endlessly... Lei Shen bouncing addspawn, Durumu maze, ...). There are usually wipes if you have the one person with "only LFR experience" - Durumu reveals blue add, Dark Animus gets adds to group up, Lei Shen tank knockback joke, ... says hi.

[Risale]

Everyone seems to hate LFR. Yet everyone does it... If it's that bad don't do it. I think LFR is good for players who...
1) dont have time to do the content with a guild/PuG
2) want to experience the content in an easier quicker fashion
3) need to learn how to raid
I do LFR and don't have any problems with it.

1. Agreed
2. Agreed but I hate it.
3. No just no and no and no and no and no again.

LFR's exists for a reason to show the entire player base content, people won't pay for what they can't play, simple as that.
I have read a lot of posts and I'll add my 2 cents to this also,

The pro's:
For me LFR is to upgrade slots for items that haven't dropped for me in normal or hc's yet are needed for those normals and hc's.
I also use it to cap out on VP if this is needed, dailies and normal clear takes care if this 99.99% of the time.
LFR is usefull to gear alts, just do your weekly loot scenario to cap elder charms and spam T14 over the weekend and presto ready for ToT LFR and have some VP in the bank for the following week to get some 522 item.
LFR is indeed usefull to test out a new spec, I am currently smashing my way through T14's to testdrive my unholy spec (nom nom nom).

The cons:
Maybe its my battlegroup but damn people in LFR are morrons, you have 10k HPS healers, PvP (shudder) geared tanks, DPS scumbags (yes this week I am 1 of them) and just plain stupid people straight of the magic bus.
Queue's as a DPS are a nightmare 30 minutes if your lucky, can take as much as an hour, I mean WTF.
ToT LFR's are the worst in my honest opinion I won't even go to the mess that's Durumu no I am talking about being in a queue for say 40 minutes that when it pops its almost orgasmic only to find out that its the last boss of the bloody wing, I mean its like being shafted by the tax man.
And oh joy of joys you managed to do all 4 wings and get nothing but gold on each and every boss again WTF.
Now I know T15 is not a loot pinata like T14 but Blizz did state that both queue's and loot had a bad luck safety net build in these days, I would like to know where that is to be honest because I am not seeing it and with me countless others
Oh and this is not a rant for more loot no this is the queue's I am talking about, I would gladly go 3-4 weeks without loot if my queue's were not going to take longer then 10 minutes and when it pops its defo gonna be a fresh run. Hell for that I'll skip loot in LFR on my alts till next tier if need be, okay thats a lie but you get my drift.

Final note, does LFR teach you about normal raiding, yes it does, it shows you what the boss looks like and where he is and thats it period.
Some of you will say that is bull well thats your opinion I have stated mine and those that raid normals and heroics will agree with me but just to give you an example take Stone Guard all the trash to it gets AOE'd down in 1 single giant pack then the 3 stoners get stacked and AOE'd down, boom boss dead, crap gold x2, woops loot pinata so most like you will get something. Want another example fine sure lets take HoF again 1st boss, hmm lets see oh yes trash, lets stack all of them in 1 single pack and derp presto your at boss, then the lovely boss with those 3 nasty abilities "huh whut" "dunno what ya mean man" "oh them shiney whirlie thingies that come from his ass" or the huntard turtle dome thingie" "what ya mean i'm not cc'd keyboard must be broke" "lolz wtf i'm not doing that to you".

Call me an elitist bastard I don't care I do LFR because I need to fill out some slots or to get that last elusive tier piece but other than that it is there to please the masses so Blizz can afford to create Healthstone and Titan.

[Volbian]

People say they do LFR because they dont have time for regular raids but honestly if you're doing 2-3 LFRs a week, which I estimate to take about 6 hours a week minimum, you can easily find a guild that raids two nights a week for 3 hours each.

^This 110%. Its just a lame excuse people use because theyre bad and wont get accepted to a real raiding guild OR theyre just plain lazy to be accountable for themselves. Thats why they slack off in LFR and derp to easy mechanics.

[Osmeric]

People say they do LFR because they dont have time for regular raids

People say that, but they're lying, most often. They're doing LFR because they wouldn't be able to get into (or stay in) a guild that had a chance of progressing in normals, given how they're tuned.

[Halifax]

^This 110%. Its just a lame excuse people use because theyre bad and wont get accepted to a real raiding guild OR theyre just plain lazy to be accountable for themselves. Thats why they slack off in LFR and derp to easy mechanics.

During Cataclysm I was unable to raid because of my job. I worked 45-50 hours a week, which wasn't really a problem, but the problem was I never knew when I was going to work. I had a different schedule every week, some days, some evenings. Good luck joining a raiding guild with that kind of schedule. This was the only expansion that I didn't raid cutting edge content.

Would you say that I'm too bad to get into a raiding guild and lazy, but only from 2010-2012? Your argument fails. The problem isn't time commitment. Anyone can have the time for raiding, it's the scheduling that is impossible for some people.

[Mormolyce]

Eh, WoW players love to hate on things. And then do them anyway.

3) I have to disagree strongly with this point. LFR does not teach you how to raid, whatsoever

Actually I think if you want to learn mechanics LFR is excellent. Yes in LFR they are simplified and often you can ignore them, but there's a world of difference between reading a guide and actually seeing the fight in action. If you read a guide and then pay close attention in LFR it's the best way to learn a fight.

I actually wish they'd release LFR a week before NM instead of after, that way you could get some practice in and reduce some week 1 nubbery.

[Belloc]

3) I have to disagree strongly with this point. LFR does not teach you how to raid, whatsoever

I know this thread is already 11 pages in, but LFR can be an excellent tool for practicing certain parts of certain encounters. Durumu's maze, for instance. Or Will of the Emperor's combo dance (mainly for tanks, of course). Blade Lord Tayak's tornado phase, construct practice on Amber Shaper, flying on Ji'Kun... maybe a few other specific things.

Granted, many guilds will have already killed those fights before those LFRs even open, but it's still a big help for people left behind or just returning to the game.

[Mormolyce]

People say they do LFR because they dont have time for regular raids but honestly if you're doing 2-3 LFRs a week, which I estimate to take about 6 hours a week minimum, you can easily find a guild that raids two nights a week for 3 hours each.

Yeah only you have to actually interact with other people in the guild, learn the strats properly, take it seriously and turn up at fixed raid times come hell or high water. And hope they all do the same or you spend all night unable to form a group. Whereas LFR you just press a button and queue any time of the day or night. It's really no comparison.

Players like to pour scorn on the word "casual" but making a date with a video game 2-3 nights every week is actually really weird and sometimes damn hard to balance with the rest of your life.

[Halifax]

Actually I think if you want to learn mechanics LFR is excellent. Yes in LFR they are simplified and often you can ignore them, but there's a world of difference between reading a guide and actually seeing the fight in action. If you read a guide and then pay close attention in LFR it's the best way to learn a fight.

I actually wish they'd release LFR a week before NM instead of after, that way you could get some practice in and reduce some week 1 nubbery.

It's also an excellent learning tool for legit new players who are trying to improve. Someone who is bad at WoW and has been bad at WoW since 2006 isn't going to improve in LFR. Someone who played WoW for the first time 3 months ago (and yes, there are people like that, I have two in my normal 10 man), LFR is going to be an excellent place to practice playing your class and getting a feel for raiding.

When I do LFR, I play 100% like it's normal. I avoid all mechanics even if the damage is trivial, I take advantage of all mechanics that allow me to max damage. It's good practice if you do it this way. If you just say "fuck it LFR lol" and stand in everything because it can't kill you, of course you're not going to learn anything.

You get out of it what you put into it, like most things.

[couchboi]

I appreciate the design behind LFR, I just personally think it's boring as crap. I only use it on my alts, but even then it's maybe once every other week. I think I've done LFR on my main for ToT maybe...3 times so far? Not even the last half. I've done part 1 twice and the part 2 once. I just don't find it fun. I just stick with normal raiding. Good enough for me.

[adelerollsinthedeep]

It's not fun.

I used to be a very hardcore raider and LFR helped me lose interest in the game. I thought after quitting raiding I would play casually, went into LFR to get a bit of gear, and it was a miserable experience for me.

It's a loot pinata with the most idiotic and annoying players I've ever had the displeasure of running across. If that's how to play the game casually, I'd rather not play at all. I don't mind anyone else enjoying it, I'm not going to whine about it on forums, but since the question was posed, that's my answer. I'd rather do dailies to get gear, at least that way I don't have to rely on idiotic strangers who take pride in their lack of skill/effort.

Lot fewer trade chat pugs too since LFR came out, at least pugging normal mode you feel a sense of working together to kill the boss, where you'd try to fix what was wiping you instead of just whining like a retard and seeing everyone else in the raid as a detriment holding you back from your free loot.

I consider LFR a toxic environment and I don't want to participate, but I don't mind anyone else who finds it a fun way to learn how to raid. If anything, you learn slightly more than you would on a target dummy so I guess that's something, especially for new healers/tanks. It's just not for me.

[melodramocracy]

People say they do LFR because they dont have time for regular raids but honestly if you're doing 2-3 LFRs a week, which I estimate to take about 6 hours a week minimum, you can easily find a guild that raids two nights a week for 3 hours each.

a) I'm doing other things in-game while waiting for the queue
b) I'm doing an LFR wing at all sorts of hours... 1am one day, maybe noon another day. Maybe once at 8pm on some random night.
c) I'm only doing whatever wing(s) I need gear or items from.

All of which make consistent, week in and week out raiding a detriment to me personally on a scheduling basis. If guild types are going to simply come up with some half-assed generalization that all LFR-only players as doing so because they're actually not good enough for normals, then yeah... enjoy your recruitment efforts.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

During Cataclysm I was unable to raid because of my job. I worked 45-50 hours a week, which wasn't really a problem, but the problem was I never knew when I was going to work. I had a different schedule every week, some days, some evenings. Good luck joining a raiding guild with that kind of schedule. This was the only expansion that I didn't raid cutting edge content.

Would you say that I'm too bad to get into a raiding guild and lazy, but only from 2010-2012? Your argument fails. The problem isn't time commitment. Anyone can have the time for raiding, it's the scheduling that is impossible for some people.

His argument isn't fail in the slightest. You provided only the evidence of your own story, which may or may not be true. That means nothing, true or not. It certainly doesn't speak for everyone.

Sure, some people can't be in a specific raiding schedule, but I doubt ALL the LFR heroes are all working triple shifts as coal miners or play WoW when they aren't being astronauts. Can we be serious please? If the average LFR player was a "decent" player who didn't have the time or schedule to do normals, I think bosses would go a little more smoothly. Instead you have:

-Trolls
-Afkers
-Being sub 20k DPS
-People dying on purpose
-People ignoring mechanics altogether
-People endlessly bitching
-People not understanding fights
-People with no gems/enchants
-People auto attacking...

I'm sure I could go on... but you get my meaning? Never in my life did I experience this kind of stuff in a raid until LFR came out. The first week it went live it was okay, but around the third week, people started slacking off because you know, they could. People starting needing everything. People started AFKing, and trolling etc.

[ZakAtack]

-Trolls
-Afkers
-Being sub 20k DPS
-People dying on purpose
-People ignoring mechanics altogether
-People endlessly bitching
-People not understanding fights
-People with no gems/enchants
-People auto attacking...

These are the reasons I hate LFR. I try and keep an open mind and take lead after a wipe. But I was trying to explain Lei Shen and set groups up after a couple of Lei Shen wipes, and someone said "don't kick him, he's trying to help us." The kick didn't pass, but seriously, I'm trying to help. And I don't see how someone's suggestion of "let's stack Determination to 10" would help you get through a transition where no one pays any attention to bouncing bolt and you get 10+ adds running around.

I have no problem and have even suffered series of wipes trying to teach new tanks how to do a fight (really, so much of the responsibility falls on them it's ridiculous). But what gets me are the people who don't even want to try. The ones who afk and /follow. I don't actually even care about no gems/enchants or relatively low DPS, as long as you're showing effort. I understand, people don't have time or want to put in the effort required of a Normal/Heroic guild. But I've had so many people give me crap for just asking them to do it right. They act all offended when you ask them to put in some effort or *gasp* pay attention! I'm not asking people to play it like Normal. I'm not asking for 90k DPS, zero damage taken from fire, and perfect interrupts. I just want people to try a little bit. And to not do it wrong on purpose.

Like if we AoE the little golems on Dark Animus and wipe from so many rampant Larges, don't be a jerk and refuse to single target. Nobody cares about your DPS on Dark Animus LFR and what good is all that AoE meter whoring if we wipe anyways?

[KillstrikeEL]

I'm fine with LFR. It's a good way to get upgrades for alts, and for people to practice mechanics if needed.

[Beat5beat]

I love LFR. I come from a dead realm, regular raiding is NOT possible on my realm/faction. LFR gives me the opportunity to experience the content I would otherwise be unable to. Despite the fact that I am an exceptional raider and have proven so on many past tiers as all 3 roles, Healer, DPS, Tank back before my server faction died. Many players like myself rotting away on dead realms only have LFR as an option. True, LFR is only a bandaid to the true problem of a dead realm. All the same, lacking a real solution, I'll gladly take the bandaid.

[KillstrikeEL]

Good point Zurtle, that could definitely be a band aid of sorts for that type of situation.

[Ielenia]

Everyone seems to hate LFR. Yet everyone does it... If it's that bad don't do it. I think LFR is good for players who...
1) dont have time to do the content with a guild/PuG
2) want to experience the content in an easier quicker fashion
3) need to learn how to raid
I do LFR and don't have any problems with it.

I can't, and won't, speak for everyone, but I will say why I don't like joining the LFR alone (I usually only do it with a guild group of 5+ people): In my experience, the VAST majority of LFR-goers either do not care about a boss' mechanics, attacking it at all times, ignoring adds or void zones (Numbers numbers numbers!! Precious numbers!!), or people who have no idea at all what to do, and never seem to learn. The former at least has the 'advantage' of giving good DPS before adds or void zones kill him/her.

My last LFR attempt on Lei-Shen: we reached Determination 10, before I simply called it quits for me, since I had to join my guild for our raid. People weren't standing on blue swirls to prevent add spawn, people with Static Shock were running away from others... a total mess. Our best attempt, we reached past transition one. I don't know, I guess it's my luck to always group me with people who either don't know the mechanics, or simply don't care about them.

As for your points, I agree with your first point. #2 is kinda 'not really' for me because, despite the fights being much more mechanically easier than their 10-man and 25-man counterparts... it's the players' inability to learn and stick to a plan that makes LFR 'hard' sometimes. As for point #3, it's false, since LFR bosses have some different mechanics than their normal raids counterparts, sometimes even missing certain abilities.

[KillstrikeEL]

Yeah, I tend to try and queue with at least a few guildies as well. When you solo queue, it can be pretty difficult to get through some of the bosses... depending on the group you get.