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  1. #281
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Just to throw this in there regarding the forsaken. Perhaps the reason behind why the forsaken hate the alliance, and the humans in general, comes from two fronts.

    One, because as its been discribed the forsaken hate humans because of how they were treated when they, having gained there free will, tried to return to there homes, there families, and they were regarded as monsters by the humans still living there, friends and family who they tried to turn to but were cast off as abominations.

    Based from this, the other reason is, because of what humans regarded them as and how this rubbed off on the forsaken now with there free will, they began to see humans with a weakness and disdain, the same as what humans saw when they saw forsaken, the same disgust. As forsaken were human once themselves, the trait of simply disregarding what wasn't the same as them, but at the same time being a pale reflection of themselves, still remained as a reflection of there inner turmoil.

    basicly, human ignorance still exists in the forsaken, and if humans themselves can be as ignorant to regard there once kin as monsters, why then should the forsaken be any different in how they regard them? Forsaken are corrupted humans at the end of it, and follow the same code of practice.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    No one has inherent right to any land

    A kingdom has a buncha land not because of "rights" but because they control it
    Being as self-righteous as the Alliance claims to be in their virtue, you'd think they'd respect the borders of other nations.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Being as self-righteous as the Alliance claims to be in their virtue, you'd think they'd respect the borders of other nations.
    To them and the refugees of Lordaeron, it's their nation. Sums it up: https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/298167592093364224

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    To them and the refugees of Lordaeron, it's their nation. Sums it up: https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/298167592093364224
    Except that's now how the feudal system works. Land belongs to the royalty and nobility, not the peasants. The Kingdom of Lordaeron collapsed, the land goes to the new regime under Sylvanas.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    To them and the refugees of Lordaeron, it's their nation. Sums it up: https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/298167592093364224
    But the Forsaken have more "claim" to it because they actually own it
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Except that's now how the feudal system works. Land belongs to the royalty and nobility, not the peasants. The Kingdom of Lordaeron collapsed, the land goes to the new regime under Sylvanas.
    Well I was replying to your comment about their virtue, in their opinion they are trying to righteously reclaim their nation that was hostilely taken over

  7. #287
    its the reverse tbh. The forsaken where originally scourge under the control of the lich king. no different from any undead mob in northrend. They where freed when arthas's powers waned. Unfortunately for them the living members of their race saw them as scourge and tried to wipe them out. The fact that they are the rightful owners of lordaeron is irrelevant to the living.

  8. #288
    Once the Forsaken regained free will the first thing they did was join Sylvanas and commit unprovoked slaughter of Alliance humans. Since then, they've made it their goal to develop plague to kill all living creatures on Azeroth, and have Alliance citizens captive as subjects in cruel experiments in the Undercity. Maybe that's why the Alliance doesn't like them.

    As far as who has a "right" to Lordaeron, both sides arguably have a claim. It's really not a debate that can be won. In the end, Sylvanas has Lordaeron because they took it by force.

  9. #289
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jealouspirate View Post
    Once the Forsaken regained free will the first thing they did was join Sylvanas and commit unprovoked slaughter of Alliance humans.
    I always thought that an order to get lost and never set foot in Lordaeron after recapturing Lordaeron City was offensive enough.
    "A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by jealouspirate View Post
    Once the Forsaken regained free will the first thing they did was join Sylvanas and commit unprovoked slaughter of Alliance humans.
    Unprovoked? Seriously? I guess human leadership trying to evict them from their homes because they were "monsters" had nothing to do with feelings of resentment, eh?

    Since then, they've made it their goal to develop plague to kill all living creatures on Azeroth
    Don't mistake the rogue undead at the Wrath Gate to be representative of the Forsaken. They were actively fighting against Sylvanas and the Forsaken; it's hard to blame the Forsaken for the actions of those fighting against them. Further still, the Forsaken quickly rendered aid to Silvermoon in the Ghostlands. Sylvanas made it very clear: she hasn't lost any love she had for her homeland. This isn't characteristic of someone who wants to kill "all living creatures."

    and have Alliance citizens captive as subjects in cruel experiments in the Undercity. Maybe that's why the Alliance doesn't like them.
    Hey, the humans made a bad decision to make enemies with the Forsaken. Whoops?

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    Well I was replying to your comment about their virtue, in their opinion they are trying to righteously reclaim their nation that was hostilely taken over
    It wasn't really hostilely taken over, it was dismantled by their prince. The heir and owner of that land decided destroy the Kingdom.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jediguy View Post
    Hey, the humans made a bad decision to make enemies with the Forsaken. Whoops?
    Wat did mindslave Theresa do to make enemies with the Forsaken?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    It wasn't really hostilely taken over, it was dismantled by their prince. The heir and owner of that land decided destroy the Kingdom.
    Yes I was just explaining the Alliance mentality

  13. #293
    Unprovoked? Seriously? I guess human leadership trying to evict them from their homes because they were "monsters" had nothing to do with feelings of resentment, eh?
    As has been said many times in this thread, the first time the Forsaken encountered the Alliance was when they met Garithos and his troops. The Alliance made a truce with the Forsaken, which the Forsaken promptly betrayed and killed them all. The Forsaken aren't some group of poor victims of human racism.

    Don't mistake the rogue undead at the Wrath Gate to be representative of the Forsaken. They were actively fighting against Sylvanas and the Forsaken; it's hard to blame the Forsaken for the actions of those fighting against them. Further still, the Forsaken quickly rendered aid to Silvermoon in the Ghostlands. Sylvanas made it very clear: she hasn't lost any love she had for her homeland. This isn't characteristic of someone who wants to kill "all living creatures."
    The only reason Putress made a plague in the first place is because Sylvanas told him to make it. Putress' crime was acting out on his own and trying to seize power from Sylvanas while working with the Legion, but their ultimately goals weren't dissimilar.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by jealouspirate View Post
    The Forsaken aren't some group of poor victims of human racism. .
    Yeah because Garithos was totally one to hide his racism and distrust of anything non-human
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Yeah because Garithos was totally one to hide his racism and distrust of anything non-human
    Except he allied with the Forsaken.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by jealouspirate View Post
    As has been said many times in this thread, the first time the Forsaken encountered the Alliance was when they met Garithos and his troops. The Alliance made a truce with the Forsaken, which the Forsaken promptly betrayed and killed them all. The Forsaken aren't some group of poor victims of human racism.
    And why would the Forsaken turn on Garithos, hmm? Could it be that he was going to evict them all from their homes? I'm sorry, but the citizens of Lordaeron have no obligation to leave their homes and every right to defend themselves against the pompous Alliance. Call that what you will.

    The only reason Putress made a plague in the first place is because Sylvanas told him to make it. Putress' crime was acting out on his own and trying to seize power from Sylvanas while working with the Legion, but their ultimately goals weren't dissimilar.
    Poor logic. Simply because Putress was commissioned to make a weapon does not mean his misuse of the weapon was in line with Forsaken leadership. Again, Putress was working on his own in an effort to usurp Forsaken command; he cannot be held representative of the very leadership he sought to usurp! Like I pointed out, Sylvanas quickly rendered aid to the Blood Elves in the Ghostlands while Putress is spouting "death to the living." Two completely different philosophies.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by jealouspirate View Post
    Except he allied with the Forsaken.
    The Enemy of My Enemy, is still my Enemy.

    Make no mistake, Garithos did not ally with the Forsaken out of any kind of love, or even general acceptance, of them. It was an alliance of pure convenience where both sides pretty much knew the other side was not to be trusted, but mutual co-operation was required to oust the Legion controlled scourge from Lordaeron. Sylvanas is many things, but she is not stupid. Garithos was about as likely to let the Forsaken leave peacefully after the Legion was dealt with as a Goblin is likely to give you free stuff, and she knew it. It ultimately came down to the fact that it was an "us or them" situation, and Sylvanas decided it was going to be "us" rather then wait for Garithos to make the first move.

    Sure, you can look at it as a betrayal of the deal they made, but would that have been any different then Garithos hunting them down after he had a chance to rest and regroup in the city after they left (which you can be damned sure he would have), if he didnt just have the dwarves under his command try to shoot them all in the back with mortars as soon as they turned around to leave?.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2013-04-21 at 03:50 AM.

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    The Enemy of My Enemy, is still my Enemy.

    Make no mistake, Garithos did not ally with the Forsaken out of any kind of love, or even general acceptance, of them. It was an alliance of pure convenience
    A common element with the forsaken, such as their membership in the Horde

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Yeah because Garithos was totally one to hide his racism and distrust of anything non-human
    He may have been a racist dick, but he at least honored the agreement. The Forsaken did not.

  20. #300
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Hah< imagine if Varian helps Thrall and Vol'jin take Orgrimmar and tells them to get lost from Durotar as the green filth they are. Would that be fair?
    "A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

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