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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by maldias View Post
    cause the scarlet crusade is part of the alliance... right.
    It's never technically said that it's only the Scarlet Crusade, though they're likely the main contributors. The Forsaken aren't part of the Scourge either, yet I bet there were plenty of people who treated them as such. Racism generally spans across factions.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    It's never technically said that it's only the Scarlet Crusade, though they're likely the main contributors. The Forsaken aren't part of the Scourge either, yet I bet there were plenty of people who treated them as such. Racism generally spans across factions.

    back then maybe considering they betrayed the forces in lordaron, killed the remaining living humans regardless, and attacked alliance factions(kirin tor).

    and still now a days its justified by the fact that they ARE acting exactly like the scourge.

    raising the dead into mindless servitude, spreading their forces into lands that aren't theirs by right, attacking peaceful nations, and using the plague as a weapon.
    the fact is, there may have been prejudice(not racism, they are not a race) against them but they've justified that hate through their actions.

    from betraying garithos' forces to attacking and invading gilnean lands they are worthy of the hatred that they have earned.
    Last edited by mordale; 2013-04-16 at 01:22 AM.

  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans Wishblade's Avatar
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    Undeath can make you a little crazy, some don't take it well. Sylvanas wanted her new people to grow strong and take revenge on the Scourge and she'd do anything to make it happen, including crazy shit. Now that the Scourge is dealt with (for now) she just wants to stay strong, so she'll keep going the way she always has.
    "Reminds me of a dog, you stare at it while it's playing outside... Running around in a circle, then stopping up, wagging with a wide "grin". Jumping around until you call for the dog, then it lowers its tail because it think it's done something bad... And then you throw the ball, seeing the tail go straight into the air in bliss! ^^" - Gehco
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  4. #24
    The Patient Wiredmana's Avatar
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    Because Alliance hate us? Just for being corpses? I mean... We're kinda past the whole ordeal that we're freed. If you read lore, every leader on the Alliance side is either highly bias or a bigot- sometimes both.

  5. #25
    Pit Lord Skorpionss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    I don't understand this hatred , aggression coming from the forsaken. Were not they humans a few years ago? Why are they trying to kill everything if they are the same people before their deaths? Why are they so ok and willing to fight for the horde? You kill innocent peasans who lived through scourge horror. Hilsbrad quests send you killing humans just for fun. These people were probably relatives of forsaken. I can't symphatize with forsaken story or understand these motives.
    I dunno I read somewhere that they tried to join the alliance but Varian basically said that he'd rather see them all dead dead... so they went to the horde and now they hate ally...

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by maldias View Post
    back then maybe considering they betrayed the forces in lordaron, killed the remaining living humans regardless, and attacked alliance factions(kirin tor).

    and still now a days its justified by the fact that they ARE acting exactly like the scourge.

    raising the dead into mindless servitude, spreading their forces into lands that aren't theirs by right, attacking peaceful nations, and using the plague as a weapon.
    the fact is, there may have been prejudice(not racism, they are not a race) against them but they've justified that hate through their actions.

    from betraying garithos' forces to attacking and invading gilnean lands they are worthy of the hatred that they have earned.
    I guess you didn't know that the Forsaken attacked Gilneas at gunpoint. Garrosh literally had a massive army poised to destroy UC if they didn't invade.

    They don't raise people into mindless servitude, everyone they raise has free will and chooses to join the Forsaken. Why do they choose to join the Forsaken? Because humans are assholes.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I guess you didn't know that the Forsaken attacked Gilneas at gunpoint. Garrosh literally had a massive army poised to destroy UC if they didn't invade.

    They don't raise people into mindless servitude, everyone they raise has free will and chooses to join the Forsaken. Why do they choose to join the Forsaken? Because humans are assholes.
    right... cause the humans they raised at the battle for andorhal had free will, and i have giant fucking wings that allow me to fly.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by maldias View Post
    right... cause the humans they raised at the battle for andorhal had free will, and i have giant fucking wings that allow me to fly.
    They are only mindless during the shock of resurrection after the trauma of a painful death. After they calm down, they regain their sanity.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  9. #29
    I'd say it's more the other way around, humans in general hunt the undead and treat the Forsaken no better than the Scourge. They don't have much choice but to be enemies. It probably doesn't help matters that Sylvanas was basically a blood elf in life, and they didn't get along too well with humans generally either.

  10. #30
    Derp the humans think the Forsaken are abominations and want nothing to do with them. Also, Varian wants Lordaeron back from undead hands.

  11. #31
    First of all, the 'hate' is kinda natural as Undeads are just regarded as wrong anyway. But mostly you must look at the entire history of the Forsaken and mainly it's relation of the scourge. In MoP you get the 'new' Forsaken that are raised, but the main bulk consists of the remainders of the Scourge. The Scourge was the mindless army that pretty much wrecked everything giving the prime reason for the other races to exterminate them. When the Frozen Throne was breached it meant some of the Scourge broke free, but in general most of them were once part of the that killing machine even if they could do nothing about it. The thing is that regardless of that they were completely not to blame for 'their' actions, but that doesn't stop the other races from seeing them as murderers. Sylvanas knew pretty much from the start they would never be fully accepted. Garithos knew very well what the risks were for joining this unholy alliance. He didn't have much choice. That's why I find his death quite ironic considering what he did or what he at least try to do to the Blood Elves. Karma is a B**** I guess.

    Just before Varimathras killed Garithos he told the Forsaken to get out, which pretty much sums up his entire attitude towards... well any race other than humans and it sealed his fate. That was the moment any different outcome could have been established and he blew it by being him. He should have realized that the Forsaken were home. Sylvanas was smart enough to take him out there and then to end the inevitable threat to her and her people.

  12. #32
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredmana View Post
    Because Alliance hate us? Just for being corpses? I mean... We're kinda past the whole ordeal that we're freed. If you read lore, every leader on the Alliance side is either highly bias or a bigot- sometimes both.
    HOrde is worse. They're not only biased bigots full of hate. They let it guide their actions almost exclusively.

  13. #33
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Must... not... get into that...

    Frankly, it reminds me that "chicken or egg" argument. Undead were always hated by the Alliance, because they're fucking undead, no different from the Scourge. Then there was Garithos, a massive dick and a tool, who owed Sylvanas everything and still made demands based on his racial superiority. Therefore he was used and discarded just like he deserved. His remaining contingent was more of a dangerous liability, especially considering how cheerfully they repeated his words (in blood elf escape mission). Then the Horde was the only force left that would cooperate with them, given the orcs' similar history with the Legion and general lack of hypocritical self-righteousness.

    After that, the Forsaken merely used the tools and tactics that fit them the most given their physiology and legacy, hence their similarities with the Scourge, which will never cease to be a topic for flame-fests for righteous paladins and conspiracy theorists. As for the war in Lordaeron - assault on Gilneas was Garrosh's initiative, not Sylvanas', and cleansing Andorhal and its vicinity of human threat was a reasonable thing to do, because it's a simple war. Humans have zero rights on Lordaeron, because the ruling dynasty is dead, its rule long since overthrown, population - decimated, and all structures disbanded; human Lordaeron no longer exists. After a short dreadlord interregnum, a new state with a new structure, ideology and even physiology of its citizens was founded.
    Last edited by Haven; 2013-04-16 at 02:57 AM.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Because the Alliance wouldn't accept them post-death, and generally hates them in return. You're talking as if the Alliance likes the Forsaken.

    They don't. But that's because of what the Forsaken have done insteda of what they are. The Forsaken had ther chance to make friends with the Alliance.

    EJL

  15. #35
    Pit Lord Psilo's Avatar
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    Brains....

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  16. #36
    The undeads seem to lose the positive emotions when they are rezzed


    Blizz said that the undead pallies(in argent crusade) who got in touch with the holy light gradually restored the positive emotions and body senses and stuff, so there must be undead specific mechanism that makes them so hateful



    In more political ways, you guys remember what TaranZhu said in the final quest scenario in the IoT? The stuff about retribution leads to more and stuff. Same thing happening between humans and forsaken
    Last edited by PrairieChicken; 2013-04-16 at 05:11 AM.

  17. #37
    Bloodsail Admiral Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    actually the forsaken HAVENT been aggressive towards the alliance

    Everything they've done is secure their own territory

    the only two examples of them actually invading something was Northrend (for obvious reasons) and Gilneas (because Garrosh ordered them too, good thing we're killing him)

    as for the "innocent peasants", they could have been used as a wedge against the Forsaken by the Alliance (this is later proved when the Alliance used that strategy in Andorhal, which nearly won them the battle)
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  18. #38
    Well, formerly mindless undead, suddenly regaining free will. Their minds, morality and emotions are simply no longer what they were in life. Add on top of this, that they could only speak gutterspeak. Again add that when they tried to return home, they were shunned by the living. The living didn't know they had their own will again and they didn't know they weren't part of the scourge.

    So when they saw a whole swarm of zombies making a garbled mess of a noise from their mouths come marching towards them, right after they're lands had been attacked by the scourge, what were they going to think? They shunned and hated them.

    The Forsaken no doubt were hurt by this, even though they'd have to understand the reaction. Add the mental effects of being an undead to the mix and is it no real wonder the Forsaken are bitter towards not just the Alliance but the living in general.
    'Words do not win wars. That is a tragedy.'

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Jawless Jones View Post
    Everything they've done is secure their own territory

    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

    Forsaken have constantly attacked their neighbours without any mercy or reason. Were the Dalaran Mages threatening them? Nope. Were the Gilneans? Nope. Were the people of Hillsbrads? Or Arathi? Or the few villages left in Lordaeron that were just trying to recover from the Scourge plague?

    The Forsaken attack people out of spite and greed and fear. Any hope of them having the image of being misunderstood bleek heroes has long since sailed.

    I'm pretty sure most of the pro-Forsaken have completely forgotten the events of Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    I don't understand this hatred , aggression coming from the forsaken. Were not they humans a few years ago? Why are they trying to kill everything if they are the same people before their deaths? Why are they so ok and willing to fight for the horde? You kill innocent peasans who lived through scourge horror. Hilsbrad quests send you killing humans just for fun. These people were probably relatives of forsaken. I can't symphatize with forsaken story or understand these motives.
    I'm off on some of the facts, but there is a girl and a boy I think, in Undercity, I think, with the same last name as a prominent guy in Stormwind. The inference being they were no longer wanted in that city.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Were the Alliance threatening them? Nope. Were the Gilneans? Nope. Were the people of Hillsbrads? Or Arathi? Or the few villages left in Lordaeron that were just trying to recover from the Scourge plague?
    The nightelves have been trying to remove all non-high life from the planet for thousands of years. I'm not even sure where someone gets off saying the things about lore that you are claiming.
    Last edited by tenzing21; 2013-04-16 at 05:28 AM.

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