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  1. #41
    I find playing through the undead starting campaign to be pretty jarring, because basically there's so many points where I disagree with my character's forced choices. Lets face it, hanging around under the command of Sylvanas and Garrosh is awful compared with the treatment that death knights get in the alliance.

    I find the same thing with the goblin campaign - seriously, why the heck do I stay under Gallywix after I thrash him? I just cannot fathom why the story ends with me going "Oh well, guess I'd better let that guy who stole all my money and tried to enslave me go, so he can go on to lead my faction instead of me."

    Seriously, both of these starting campaigns make me feel like my character is some sort of grade-a idiot, not a budding hero.

  2. #42
    The Patient Nathreim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

    Forsaken have constantly attacked their neighbours without any mercy or reason. Were the Dalaran Mages threatening them? Nope. Were the Gilneans? Nope. Were the people of Hillsbrads? Or Arathi? Or the few villages left in Lordaeron that were just trying to recover from the Scourge plague?

    The Forsaken attack people out of spite and greed and fear. Any hope of them having the image of being misunderstood bleek heroes has long since sailed.

    I'm pretty sure most of the pro-Forsaken have completely forgotten the events of Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne.
    The mages of Dalaran held many Blood Elves prisoner under Garithos' orders Sylvanas wouldn't have liked that. Gilneas betrayed the Alliance and later left Lordaeron refuges to the scourge instead of opening the gate at the wall (and some of their own people(Curse of the Worgen)). Southshore has always been a pain in the ass and was the only Alliance held port capable of being used as landing for an invasion(The Stormwind fleet landed their after the First war). Ill give you Arathi. The Scarlets burned more villages and killed more people than the Forsaken ever did even burning ships bound for Theramore and Stormwind (Warcraft Legends).
    Last edited by Nathreim; 2013-04-16 at 05:51 AM.

  3. #43
    Bloodsail Admiral Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

    Forsaken have constantly attacked their neighbours without any mercy or reason. Were the Dalaran Mages threatening them? Nope. Were the Gilneans? Nope. Were the people of Hillsbrads? Or Arathi? Or the few villages left in Lordaeron that were just trying to recover from the Scourge plague?

    The Forsaken attack people out of spite and greed and fear. Any hope of them having the image of being misunderstood bleek heroes has long since sailed.

    I'm pretty sure most of the pro-Forsaken have completely forgotten the events of Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne.
    i liked that you nit-picked my statement and didnt include my reasoning for what i said

    pre-cata the people of hillsbrad and the mages of ambermill had already proven themselves to be a threat by ambushing forsaken caravans/murdering its deathguards

    to add to my valid reasoning about the villagers in tirisfal, they also supplied the scarlet crusade with food and soldiers

    i do agree with the Arathi statement however, they dont really need to attack the Alliance there (altho with the Syndicate/Ogres in the ruins of Stromgarde i think the Forsaken are the least of their problems)
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    I'm still waiting on someone to tell me where all these people that suddenly care about Warrior balance were during Cataclysm when they were blow up dolls with plate armor on.
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    Stop complaining to solve your lack of ability, and start reading and practicing to gain ability. Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    I don't understand this hatred , aggression coming from the forsaken. Were not they humans a few years ago? Why are they trying to kill everything if they are the same people before their deaths? Why are they so ok and willing to fight for the horde? You kill innocent peasans who lived through scourge horror. Hilsbrad quests send you killing humans just for fun. These people were probably relatives of forsaken. I can't symphatize with forsaken story or understand these motives.
    Reverse that to the forsaken PoV.

    They were a human themselves, they still have many of their memories - including the memories of the violent and "life changing" nature of their deaths. And then they remember being brought back as what they'd always been taught to hate & fear, and eliminate without mercy. And suddenly they're hated, and feared, and eliminated without mercy.

    If that didn't strip your humanity & alienate you into a very darwinian struggle for survival, you'd have to be gandhi. The Forsaken's mindset is pretty much summed up in their name - they have been forsaken and now they must carve out their survival in a world where everyone hates & distrusts them.

  5. #45
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakhesis View Post
    everyone hates & distrusts them.
    for good reason

  6. #46
    in classic times it was more like this:

    confused undead person trys to get into contact with his loved ones that survived the scourge
    vs
    people that were forced through a great nightmare because of monsters that looked like the person that now tries to talk to you
    =
    instant "MONSTER! KILL IT! KILL IT!"



    these days they are really that kind of monsters the humans feared back then.

  7. #47
    A lot of the Alliance's enemies are of their own creation ...

  8. #48
    The Lightbringer leaks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawless Jones View Post

    i do agree with the Arathi statement however, they dont really need to attack the Alliance there (altho with the Syndicate/Ogres in the ruins of Stromgarde i think the Forsaken are the least of their problems)
    Arathi is rich in resources considered essential to the war efforts of both sides. Hence the BG.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  9. #49
    Its because forsaken dont get their weapon of mass destruction from some deus ex machina, they had to create it themselves.

    They are the closest thing to atheists you get in warcraft universe, thats what makes religious zealots hate them.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    the necromantic magic that keeps them alive blocks out good emotions and sensations leaving only hateful monsters
    Basically this is what happens.

    In short: the Forsaken are just rotting corpses animated by necromantic magic, they have nothing to do with what they were in life, their only destination: burn all in a funeral pyre.


  11. #51
    They were forced into killing the humans when bound to the Lich king, once they regained their free will the Alliance didn't care and are still like.

    "Arggh Vile Undead, smite, kill, kill!!"

    For this reason I find that Alliance DK's really don't make sense from a lore perspective.

  12. #52
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Because humans hunt them down and slaughter them for being undead?
    And it doesn't help that the first "Alliance-ambassador" had to be Garithos.. That's just asking for trouble.

  13. #53
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    burn all in a funeral pyre.
    Talk about hateful monsters...
    "A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Talk about hateful monsters...
    At least he answered the OP's question.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Because humans hunt them down and slaughter them for being undead?
    And it doesn't help that the first "Alliance-ambassador" had to be Garithos.. That's just asking for trouble.
    The thing is humans did not do that. Why is this thing keeps getting repeated ? Alliance did not go burn all the forsaken through the game. They did not even attack them before battle for undercity which was only a reaction. While the forsaken were plagueing, murdering their way into arathi.
    Also garithos' prejudices did not prevent him from working with forsaken. His reactions against the elves were not mentioned in forsaken quests or was ever in sylvanas' agenda. That is just made up by people here.
    Most forsaken do not care about horde's ideals.
    They seem to be really enjoying inflicting pain upon humans. I ask why? Were not these humans their relatives a few years ago?

  16. #56
    Undead killed in the past many more humans. It's because the scourge became so powerful. Now humanity sees the forsaken as the invaders of their homeland (Lordaeron continent was the birthplace of human civilization) and when they kill everyone and burn villages to the ground obviously do not help to convince humanity that have the right to be there.

  17. #57
    Because the humans see them as freaks and until recently they thought they were mindless Scourge so they wanted to wipe them out. The Forsaken at first only wanted to defend themselves, but after so many attacks they've chosen to go on the offense.

    You can see the same thing in Western Plaguelands since Cataclysm. Humans who don't belong there are trying to take Forsaken land, so they strike back and scare them off. The Forsaken living in the northern Eastern Kingdoms are the legitimate owners of the land, they lived there as humans before they got turned into Forsaken.

    The humans who try to restore and rebuild the area? They simply come from Stormwind in the south and have no claim over those lands. They never lived there before. Well, I guess a few farmers from Hillsbrad get hurt in the crossfire, sucks to be them.

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    I don't understand this hatred , aggression coming from the forsaken. Were not they humans a few years ago? Why are they trying to kill everything if they are the same people before their deaths? Why are they so ok and willing to fight for the horde? You kill innocent peasans who lived through scourge horror. Hilsbrad quests send you killing humans just for fun. These people were probably relatives of forsaken. I can't symphatize with forsaken story or understand these motives.
    If you had only done the undead starter zone you would have known why. Simply because the Alliance doesn't accept the Forsaken AT ALL. In the starter zone you meet Lillian Voss, the daughter of some high priest. Her father sent someone to kill her even though she didn't do anything wrong yet.

    It kinda comes from both sides. Forsaken are being mind controlled, but still have memories. The alliance on the other hand kills off Forsaken just as easily, even when said forsaken was a relative or friend.

  19. #59
    Scarab Lord Kazomir's Avatar
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    Alliance hates the forsaken cause they are undead and evil.
    Undead in turn bomb alliance towns with plague.
    Alliance continues to hate, but do nothing whatsoever.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  20. #60
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    What I'm seeing here are a lot of assumptions based upon not a lot.

    We do not have a source that says that the Forsaken were met with open hostility by the Alliance and were then persecuted for their state of being. This is something I see a lot of people doing and it's silly. There is one mention of such an occurrence and it consists of an Undead returning to his home where he was unable to understand Common - which is understandable.

    What we do know is that their first interaction with "Alliance" was Garithos. A man who at the time was not acting under authority of the Alliance leadership. Yet despite this he allied with the Forsaken until he was betrayed by the Forsaken who then killed the remaining living of Lordaeron they could.
    The second mention would go to the Scarlet Crusade who are not Alliance.

    The Forsaken acted indecent and have since been treated as such and remain so while only getting worse. It was not the Alliance who struck the first blow.

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