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  1. #101
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    I'm looking at some of the Forsaken-lore from WoWpedia.
    "Recently, the Argent Dawn has offered assistance to Sylvanas' people against the Crusaders' constant harassment in eastern Tirisfal Glades."
    "The humans and dwarves of the Alliance, the perennial enemy of their Horde allies, remained at large on the continent."
    "The Forsaken Defilers seek to foil the AllianceLeague of Arathor in the Battleground Arathi Basin and claim it for the Horde."
    "the Forsaken launched an offensive against Gilneas, after being ordered by Garrosh Hellscream to do so. The Forsaken appear to be taking on a more offensive stance regarding the war with the Alliance"
    "Forsaken have even less love for the Alliance, particularly because they clash constantly with the human organization called the Scarlet Crusade."

    Conclusion: Maybe they don't hate them that much, but it's more because they are Horde now and are 'forced' to be anti-Alliance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    The thing is humans did not do that. Why is this thing keeps getting repeated ? Alliance did not go burn all the forsaken through the game.
    It's in the Forsaken lore in the game, so humans did do that.
    Also garithos' prejudices did not prevent him from working with forsaken.
    Then why did Sylvanas had to 'bribe' him before he would join them in a fight against the Burning Legion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Where is this stated?
    As a means to further her own goals and protect her budding nation, Sylvanas sent emissaries to various factions in search of allies. The kind-hearted tauren of Thunder Bluff proved to be the most promising contact.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    I don't understand this hatred , aggression coming from the forsaken. Were not they humans a few years ago? Why are they trying to kill everything if they are the same people before their deaths? Why are they so ok and willing to fight for the horde? You kill innocent peasans who lived through scourge horror. Hilsbrad quests send you killing humans just for fun. These people were probably relatives of forsaken. I can't symphatize with forsaken story or understand these motives.
    They are called the forsaken because the humans abandoned them in their time of need and at the same time told them that the land they were on {Lordaeron} was not theirs (they were humans that lived in Lordaeron before the plague turned them into undead). They showed no hate or hostility towards the humans until the humans told them that they were no longer part of them and attempted to kick them out of their home.
    nothing but empty space here bro. move along now.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Nowhere, the forsaken don't get along with humanity from the get go.



    In their darkest hour, the renegade undead were rallied together by the former ranger-general of Quel’Thalas, Sylvanas Windrunner. Defeated during an attack on her kingdom and transformed into a powerful Scourge banshee, Sylvanas had also regained her freedom from the Lich King. Under their new queen’s guidance, the independent undead – known as Forsaken – established the Undercity beneath the ruins of Lordaeron’s capital. While some Forsaken feared Sylvanas, others valued the security she provided. Many of the free-willed undead, however, found a purpose to their cursed existence through the banshee queen’s burning desire to destroy the Lich King.

    Despite not being affiliated with the Scourge, the Forsaken came under threat from humans who were dedicated to eradicating all Forsaken. As a means to further her own goals and protect her budding nation, Sylvanas sent emissaries to various factions in search of allies.


    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/race/undead
    So she only sent emissaries to Horde factions? Then why not just appeal directly with the leadership of the Horde? Nothing in there says she didn't send emissaries to dwarves, gnomes, elves, or other human kingdoms. She's not above working with humans if it suits her goals, she teamed up with Garithos.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-04-16 at 11:32 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSerialSniper View Post
    They are called the forsaken because the humans abandoned them in their time of need and at the same time told them that the land they were on {Lordaeron} was not theirs (they were humans that lived in Lordaeron before the plague turned them into undead). They showed no hate or hostility towards the humans until the humans told them that they were no longer part of them and attempted to kick them out of their home.
    That is false. Sylvanas called herself forsaken right at the end of frozen throne without human involvement. They showed actual hate and betrayal towards humans. Why do people repeat this thing? Forsaken are not victim of a hate campaign.
    And who abandoned them? Only mostly elves(ironically their allies now) abandoned them. Plauge moved so fast in lordaeron before stormwind could do anything about it. And they could not even send help to burning steppes because of onyxia.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    That is false. Sylvanas called herself forsaken right at the end of frozen throne without human involvement. They showed actual hate and betrayal towards humans. Why do people repeat this thing? Forsaken are not victim of a hate campaign.
    And who abandoned them? Only mostly elves(ironically their allies now) abandoned them. Plauge moved so fast in lordaeron before stormwind could do anything about it. And they could not even send help to burning steppes because of onyxia.
    That last living memory of their prince and his army turning on them and slaughtering them doesn't count as being betrayed by humans?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  6. #106
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That last living memory of their prince and his army turning on them and slaughtering them doesn't count as being betrayed by humans?
    Hah, good point actually. Subjectivity works both ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  7. #107
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    So she only sent emissaries to Horde factions? Then why not just appeal directly with the leadership of the Horde? Nothing in there says she didn't send emissaries to dwarves, gnomes, elves, or other human kingdoms. She's not above working with humans if it suits her goals, she teamed up with Garithos.
    Still very unlikely, they clashed constantly with humans, not to mention Sylvanas despises humanity for spawning Arthas, the plague was specifically designed to kill both the scourge and humans, which is why I have a hard time believing she would try to build a lasting alliance.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That last living memory of their prince and his army turning on them and slaughtering them doesn't count as being betrayed by humans?
    No, this would only be the case for the ones who would've come from Stratholme anyway and they were wiped out to begin with. The army and the rest of the kingdom fell prey to the scourge/legion just the same the forsaken did except for those who managed to run in time. They don't even blame King Therenas.

    On topic, the forsaken do not hate the Alliance specifically they hate the living in general. Just listen to their dialogues and slogans. It's "Death to the living" not "Death to all living not part of the Horde". The reason they're concentrating on the Alliance as of now is that they currently need the Horde the same way Sylvanas needed Garithos at first and we know how that worked out in the long run.

    The alliance between forsaken and Horde is an alliance of convenience and if it would ever be harmful, not in the best interest or Sylvanas would think she could act against both factions on her own she'd be sure to turn onto her former allies as she did before.

    The reason why the forsaken are so messed up and cruel isn't that they were victimized at some point. It's that they deep at heart are bad people. They are inherently messed up, feel only bad feelings, lost most of their compassion and empathy and hate the living for being alive. They are cruel sadists who relish in the pain they inflict upon others.

    Those forsaken who're "different" often run off or at least try to do so, remember the ones we killed for deserting and running off to the Kirinthor or those who joined the Argent Dawn. The mayority of them however "came back wrong".

  9. #109
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Just listen to their dialogues and slogans. It's "Death to the living" not "Death to all living not part of the Horde".
    I can easily bet anything that you'll fail to provide any examples. You just made that up so that it fits your vision of the evil undead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  10. #110
    The way I see it, the Forsaken hate the Alliance primarily cause they turned their back on them, and then turned around and let the Gilneans, the ones who walled themselves off when the Lordaeronians needed 'em most (Granted, it was probably a good idea to do so), into the Alliance despite them also being "cursed" monsters.

    I'd be super pissed off too.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorticough View Post
    The way I see it, the Forsaken hate the Alliance primarily cause they turned their back on them, and then turned around and let the Gilneans, the ones who walled themselves off when the Lordaeronians needed 'em most (Granted, it was probably a good idea to do so), into the Alliance despite them also being "cursed" monsters.

    I'd be super pissed off too.
    You mean the Gilneans who the Forsaken KILLED first? Cause Gilneas was completely independant until they needed direct Aid from the Night Elves helping them overcome the worgen curse, only to get attacked by the forsaken at the same exact moment, losing their home entirely. The only reason they rejoined the Alliance is because the forsaken forced them into a position to do so, and this is allthewhile without mentioning the the Forsaken were already a part of the horde for years.

    If they are pissed about Gilneans joining the alliance when they themselves attacked them at their most vulnerable, they seriously have no grasp of their wit.
    And should he be a prophet of It's coming, he shall be cast out by his kin and his peers, for they cannot comprehend and fear the end of the corrupt empire. - Unknown, 3/1/2012
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    You mean the Gilneans who the Forsaken KILLED first? Cause Gilneas was completely independant until they needed direct Aid from the Night Elves helping them overcome the worgen curse, only to get attacked by the forsaken at the same exact moment, losing their home entirely. The only reason they rejoined the Alliance is because the forsaken forced them into a position to do so, and this is allthewhile without mentioning the the Forsaken were already a part of the horde for years.

    If they are pissed about Gilneans joining the alliance when they themselves attacked them at their most vulnerable, they seriously have no grasp of their wit.
    Yeah. They killed 'em first cause they did nothing to help prevent the forsaken from dying in the first place. They did nothing for the Lordaeronians when the plague struck aside from turn Arugal loose just outside the wall.

    Granted, the forsaken helped drive 'em to joining the Alliance, but they probably would have done that in the first place, considering the nature of the curse. But if you're already a people driven by vengeance, of course you're gonna wanna destroy the people who turned their backs on you when the wall finally broke down.
    Last edited by Vorticough; 2013-04-17 at 06:46 AM.

  13. #113
    Because the "Alliance" has been wanting to eradicate them since forever. The Scarlet Crusade and the Alliance are no different in their opinion of the Forsaken. To them they're no different than the Scourge.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 07:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    I can easily bet anything that you'll fail to provide any examples. You just made that up so that it fits your vision of the evil undead.
    People still think that Wrathgate was orchestrated by the Forsaken.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  14. #114
    Nobody starts a war until the Alliance attack the Orcs, Trolls, Taurens, Forsaken and even Gnolls.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorticough View Post
    Yeah. They killed 'em first cause they did nothing to help prevent the forsaken from dying in the first place. They did nothing for the Lordaeronians when the plague struck aside from turn Arugal loose just outside the wall.

    Granted, the forsaken helped drive 'em to joining the Alliance, but they probably would have done that in the first place, considering the nature of the curse. But if you're already a people driven by vengeance, of course you're gonna wanna destroy the people who turned their backs on you when the wall finally broke down.
    Garrosh brought up this history specifically to rouse the Forsaken soldiers into attacking Gilneas while at the Greymayne Wall.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "The Gilneans cower behind their high stone walls," the warchief called out, his deep voice booming over the din of rain and thunder. "You, citizens of Lordaeron, you know their history. When their human allies needed them, what did they do? They walled up and hid."

    Swords clanged against shields. Not all Forsaken clung to their living memories, but those who did held no love for the kingdom that had turned its back to the world in its most desperate hours. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by glycerethe View Post
    Nobody starts a war until the Alliance attack the Orcs, Trolls, Taurens, Forsaken and even Gnolls.
    Forsaken are the ones attacking everywhere. They are not under siege. They are not being murdered in their homes.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    That is false. Sylvanas called herself forsaken right at the end of frozen throne without human involvement. They showed actual hate and betrayal towards humans. Why do people repeat this thing? Forsaken are not victim of a hate campaign.
    And who abandoned them? Only mostly elves(ironically their allies now) abandoned them. Plauge moved so fast in lordaeron before stormwind could do anything about it. And they could not even send help to burning steppes because of onyxia.
    And if you go back to the third war in lore It is stated that while hillsbrad was saved from the scourge by the Kirin Tor, Stormwind and Ironforge made a military barrier to protect the remaining un-touched regions in Lordaeron. And when Garithos decided to launch a suicide attack against the scourge, they preferred to remain to protect. So Lordaeron and its people weren't abandoned by the alliance. In fact in stormwind there are many Lordaeron refugees.

  18. #118
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    People still think that Wrathgate was orchestrated by the Forsaken.
    Exactly what I meant. They once heard Putress' notorious phrase in the Wrathgate cinematic on youtube and they think they're experts on the Forsaken, while in reality it's just as indicative of Forsaken as Arthas is of humans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    I can easily bet anything that you'll fail to provide any examples. You just made that up so that it fits your vision of the evil undead.
    You can log into the game and just click on some Forsaken character, the phrase WILL come up. And no they at no time say it exclude Horde. If the Forsaken were in a position to stand on their own and eradicate the Horde and Alliance we could draw the conclusion from past examples that they would do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Exactly what I meant. They once heard Putress' notorious phrase in the Wrathgate cinematic on youtube and they think they're experts on the Forsaken, while in reality it's just as indicative of Forsaken as Arthas is of humans.
    Arthas was an the undead Prince of Lordaeron. The Forsaken are the undead people of Lordaeron. Putress and the royal apothecary society do not stand for all of the Forsaken, but neither were they "fringe elements" or "extremists" compared to the other Forsaken. All they did was to not go along with Sylvanas plans and turn onto her aswell, using the weapons that were developed under her direct command to kill both Alliance and Horde.
    Last edited by Deleth; 2013-04-17 at 10:56 AM.

  20. #120
    Scarab Lord Arrashi's Avatar
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    The funniest thing in this discussion, are people who cant stand single race that isnt your generic goody-goody. So even if forsaken are evil whats wrong with that ? They fight alliance because they think its best option, why argue with that ? Do we really need all races to be reskins of one ultimate hero archetype who join in yet another gangbang against EVUL guys ? Geez just let forsaken be themselves.

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