Why are the forsaken so hostile against alliance?

[Verdugo]

Yes but Sylvanas punshes who disagrees with her, Variab doesn't. Varian is a KING, Sylvanas as i said, a dictator. If you study history, you will know that there's difference between the two ways.

She doesnt punish those that disagree, she punishes those that make idiotic decisions on frontlines.

Just like Varian punishes defias for disagreeing with his own regime. What makes defias so much different from current troll rebelion?

Face it, you suffer from "white knight syndrome", everything human, noble and light worshiping must be paragon of goodness acording to your mind. Wake up.

[Arrashi]

Yes but Sylvanas punshes who disagrees with her, Variab doesn't. Varian is a KING, Sylvanas as i said, a dictator. If you study history, you will know that there's difference between the two ways.

Sylvanas is QUEEN, and unlike varian who get his crown because he was his father son, she actually earned it. Also she is revered leader by majority of forsaken. Humans on the other hand have very mixed feelings about varian chynn.

[Deleted]

Yes but Sylvanas punshes who disagrees with her, Variab doesn't. Varian is a KING, Sylvanas as i said, a dictator. If you study history, you will know that there's difference between the two ways.

Last i checked Varian erects statues of himself, refuses to pay the workers then punishes people who have a legitimate gripe in the stockades.

Very dictatoral.

King is a title, nothing more. History shows some kings have been good others have been total tyrants.
If you want to call Varian a King then Sylvanas must be a Queen as her title suggests, both have acted tyrannical at times so you cannot have a double standard.

[Octavius]

She doesnt punish those that disagree, she punishes those that make idiotic decisions on frontlines.

Just like Varian punishes defias for disagreeing with his own regime. What makes defias so much different from current troll rebelion?

Face it, you suffer from "white knight syndrome", everything human, noble and light worshiping must be paragon of goodness acording to your mind. Wake up.

Tell me, have I said "sylvanas is bad, ugly and not worthy to live? No. I said: "Sylvanas is a dictator". Good. It is true. Absolutely true. A king is a different thing. Varian doesn't punish who mistakes in good faith but punishes an organization which would destroy his own kingdom for revenge (also justified, if you will). Very different than Sylvanas. She rules with the iron fist. If I suffer the "white knight syndorme" you soffer the opposite one, where everything is dark, so cool, so offbeat is in every case right and beauty.

---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 02:02 PM ----------

Sylvanas is QUEEN, and unlike varian who get his crown because he was his father son, she actually earned it. Also she is revered leader by majority of forsaken. Humans on the other hand have very mixed feelings about varian chynn.

Nono, you're right. She earned it. Conquered it. She is also a good ruler. But a dictator. Why do you not accept it?

[Arrashi]

Well that escalated quickly. Can we return to civil discussion and avoid using numerous insults ?

[Uriel]

The dead bodies rot after their death. A few minutes after the heart stops pumping oxygen into the brain it starts to decay. So the longer the time frame is between the death and the resurrection, the more twisted the Forsaken can be.

Another thing is they are walking dead just like the scourge. The scourge has killed countless of people. I bet everyone of you would hate or at least mistrust people that look exactly like those who killed your relatives. I admit that the alliance has a rather twitchy finger on the trigger so it wasn't that farfetched that they started to attack.

Then Sylvanas attacked the humans of Lordearon, the humans of Gilneas and ever since 'they' killed Bolvar Fordragon the chance for peace is off the table.

[Octavius]

Well that escalated quickly. Can we return to civil discussion and avoid using numerous insults ?

I hope it. I hate when people discussing about a damned VIDEOGAME get angry or use insults.

[Deleted]

I hope it. I hate when people discussing about a damned VIDEOGAME get angry or use insults.

I hate when people don't know what they are talking about and start making things up, because if you're talking about titles and insist ''Varian is a king and Sylvanas is a dictator, it's very different!!!'' then no, Sylvanas is queen of the forsaken, her title isn't ''dictator'', and please stop exaggerating everything about sylvanas and the forsaken to suit your bias, or like Verdugo puts it, ''white knight syndrome''.

[Octavius]

I hate when people don't know what they are talking about and start making things up, because if you're talking about titles and insist ''Varian is a king and Sylvanas is a dictator, it's very different!!!'' then no, Sylvanas is queen of the forsaken, her title isn't ''dictator'', and please stop exaggerating everything about sylvanas and the forsaken to suit your bias, or like Verdugo puts it, ''white knight syndrome''.

But what the hell... Therefore, tell me, are sylvanas and Varian ruling in the exactlysame way?
Again, follow me:
-Sylvanas rules with an iron fist, punishes who fails her in good faith, doesn't matter of diplomacy. She doesn't accept critics. She doesn't follow her Warchief's orders. Probabibly some of you don't know how a dictator is. How are the differences between a king or a dictator. SHE is a dictator, she can call herself queen, batgirl, catwoman, pope, Hulkess or whatelse but she IS a dictator. She views only herself as the leader. She did not even have a politic heir. Someone she trusts.
Varian, oh yes my beloved king, acts in a lightly different way. He says different things. He tries to bring the Alliance united. Well, again, WHY THE HELL you get angry from this theory? It is right in my opinion and in every case makes sense.
Is it bad? Morally, yes. My nation saw a dictator and wasn't a good thing. In game, it is a good thing.
Do you want to know how thing is equal between Varian and Sylvanas? The absolute power. Yes, both of them have it. When you say "Varian is a king and use a total power to do X, Y, Z" you are right. But the way to do it is different. And I'm sorry if I'm undermining your convinctions, but I'm not exaggerating about Sylvanas, I don't like her it is true, but it is the more incisive female character in wow and is fundamental in lore. Call me white knight if you want, onestly I don't care. And by the way, if you take this so seriously, then reflect on what I said.
Ah and onestly I think i know the wow lore very well, probabibly better than you. I know politics, history and I know a bit of laws. Uniting all of this, I know VERY WELL what I am talking about.

[Ultramonkey]

Varian - Dictator
Sylvanas - Autocrat

Varian relies upon advisers the help him come to a decision, but still ends up making pretty shitty ones some of the time. Sylvanas has no advisers and ends up making shitty decisions some of the time. Both are flawed.

[Krolikn]

The humans wouldn't accept them back even after they were released from the Lich King. They wanted to purge them anyway. I don't really blame the Humans but the hate goes both ways.

[Octavius]

\
Uhm, yes..
So having an heir suddenly doesn't make you a dictator?

And what is the difference between Varian and Sylvanas then? His handling of the Defias Brotherhood is probably worse than whatever Sylvanas did to her Forsaken.

Mhmm do you know Benito Mussolini or simply Napoleone Bonaparte? And Emperor Freidrik Von Hohenstaufen? King Loius XIV? Do you know what all of them did? However the defias wanted to destroy the kingdom. To undermine the alliance. They were a real problem, so Varian had to destroy them. It is a bad example. The heir was only an example.

[Deleted]

Yes you exaggerate alot, I'm sure by ''Sylvanas rules with an iron fist, punishes who fails her in good faith, doesn't matter of diplomacy.'' you are talking about Koltira, well obviously if he's with the forsaken he should follow his queen's orders, which he didn't...maybe he should leave then? The forsaken can leave and join other factions if they want, there are exemples of this, but if they are with the forsaken they follow their queen, and don't pretend this doesn't happen with other races aswell because if you are gonna call Sylvanas a dictator because of that I could call any race leader a dictator, no one likes soldiers that don't follow orders.

However the defias wanted to destroy the kingdom. To undermine the alliance. They were a real problem, so Varian had to destroy them. It is a bad example. The heir was only an example.

Do you know why the defias brotherhood was created? Because Varian didn't pay them after they rebuilted stormwind.

[Octavius]

Varian - Dictator
Sylvanas - Autocrat

Varian relies upon advisers the help him come to a decision, but still ends up making pretty shitty ones some of the time. Sylvanas has no advisers and ends up making shitty decisions some of the time. Both are flawed.

Oooh if you talk in this way, I agree. Varian is a dictator and Sylvanas an autocrat.

---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 04:07 PM ----------

Yes you exaggerate alot, I'm sure by ''Sylvanas rules with an iron fist, punishes who fails her in good faith, doesn't matter of diplomacy.'' you are talking about Koltira, well obviously if he's with the forsaken he should follow his queen's orders, which he didn't...maybe he should leave then? The forsaken can leave and join other factions if they want, there are exemples of this, but if they are with the forsaken they follow their queen, and don't pretend this doesn't happen with other races aswell because if you are gonna call Sylvanas a dictator because of that I could call any race leader a dictator, no one likes soldiers that don't follow orders.

Yes but "the banshee queen watchs over you" gives you and idea of a completely free race? I repeat, you are right in most things we discussed about, but you don't want to admit Sylvanas is more autoritarian than Varian.
As when we talked about who has the right over Lordaeron, I said both of them and it is because the alliance belives they are right in attacking the forsaken the few times they did it, but you say "noooo absolutely not, you are only an alliance fanboy, white knight blablabla..." Considering that in the origins we started talking about why the forsaken were so aggressive. The forsaken, not the alliance.

[rowaasr13]

Because Alliance hate us? Just for being corpses? I mean... We're kinda past the whole ordeal that we're freed. If you read lore, every leader on the Alliance side is either highly bias or a bigot- sometimes both.

They are only mindless during the shock of resurrection after the trauma of a painful death. After they calm down, they
regain their sanity.

Ah, Horde fans enjoy spouting lies pulled from their asses just to bend facts to "we're victims" once again. How new and refreshing! I start to think that's there's something in Horde story that pull people like that to it.

I'd say it's more the other way around, humans in general hunt the undead and treat the Forsaken no better than the Scourge. They don't have much choice but to be enemies. It probably doesn't help matters that Sylvanas was basically a blood elf in life, and they didn't get along too well with humans generally either.

Now, now. Let's check our facts, please. Please link me Alliance quests that amount to "go hunt the Forsaken". We'll count them. Then I'll link relevant Forsaken quests "go hunt the Humans". We'll count them too. I hope this will make at least some people understand how completely clueless they are.

[Immitis]

She doesnt punish those that disagree, she punishes those that make idiotic decisions on frontlines.

Just like Varian punishes defias for disagreeing with his own regime. What makes defias so much different from current troll rebelion?

Face it, you suffer from "white knight syndrome", everything human, noble and light worshiping must be paragon of goodness acording to your mind. Wake up.

no, varian hates the defias because they killed his wife, despite the fact that he and his wife were the man supporters of them getting paid

[rowaasr13]

Because humans hunt them down and slaughter them for being undead?

WHERE THE FUCK THEY DO THAT YOU LIAR?! One quest to hunt forsaken for fun, please. Just ONE!

---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 06:15 PM ----------

While you are at it, could you also count the Forsaken-quests that talk about humans hunting the Forsaken? Because they are numerous..
You'd know that if you'd play both factions.

Same to you. List me that one quest. Now. I'm playing Horde, BTW.

[Octavius]

no, varian hates the defias because they killed his wife, despite the fact that he and his wife were the man supporters of them getting paid

Kangodo, read this. And I add the fact that the defias, which had in origins good reasons to hate the kingdom, wanted only to destroy it. As merely terrorists. Some of them are right, but anarchy isn't a good way to solve problems. Nor violence.

[Immitis]

While you are at it, could you also count the Forsaken-quests that talk about humans hunting the Forsaken? Because they are numerous..
You'd know that if you'd play both factions.

the only humans that hunt the forsaken pre cata were the scarlet crusade. which were so wacko cracko they were kicked out of the alliance and a good portion of their members who were sane left and formed the argent dawn

[rowaasr13]

If you had only done the undead starter zone you would have known why. Simply because the Alliance doesn't accept the Forsaken AT ALL. In the starter zone you meet Lillian Voss, the daughter of some high priest. Her father sent someone to kill her even though she didn't do anything wrong yet.

Amount of utterly ignoring lore is unbelievable in this thread. Her father is not "some priest". Her father is priest of Scarlet Crusade. You know, those guys who indiscriminately kill and torture undead and human alike. Even in game he is hostile to both factions. Can you please at least get your facts straight before making yourself look like fool?