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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    "When I clawed my way out of the grave, I thought my family would welcome me with open arms. Instead, they drove me out of the village, screaming in a language I could no longer understand."
    That's actually quite depressing.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    You forgot to add, *after they were freed, they rescued their former kinsman only to be met with hostility and suspicion. Then they betrayed and slaughtered them all. Then they were hunted down by the Scarlet Crusade.
    Wow!
    They were treated with suspicion? Now I understand why they slaughtered them all! Seriously though they were treated with suspicion because they were at war with the Scourge. It is perfectly understandable to be suspicious.

    If being treated "suspiciously" warrants a desire to back stab their living kinsman and slaughter them all then no wonder other races have such a hard time liking them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Then their territory was invaded by the Alliance.
    Which invasion are speaking of? The one in Wrath? They earned that one and no not because of Putress's rogue actions.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-04-20 at 05:48 PM.

  3. #243
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    There's this thing called the Horde, and The Forsaken happen to be in the Horde.

    But seriously, when the humans got turned into the undead or "forsaken" they were driven out, neglected, and treated as monsters by their once former friends and family (their former race, humans). Ever since then they have had a hatred for humans, and systematically, The Alliance.
    Man, I've got bags under my eyes... BAGS OF MONEY!
    See ya later, peasants.

    Praise The Sun!

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Wow!
    They were treated with suspicion? Now I understand why they slaughtered them all! Seriously though they were treated with suspicion because they were at war with the Scourge. It is perfectly understandable to be suspicious.

    Seriously if being treated "suspiciously" warrants a desire to back stab their living kinsman and slaughter them all then no wonder other races have such a hard time liking them.
    I didn't say it was a good reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Which invasion are speaking of? The one in Wrath? They earned that one and no not because of Putress's rogue actions.
    Hillsbrad and Alterac areas.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I didn't say it was a good reason.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Hillsbrad and Alterac areas.
    Wait how did they invade Hillsbrad? Southshore was there since before the Second War and for whatever reason remained unscathed during the Third War. The Forsaken then returned to Tarren Mill and started waging war on Southshore who hardly retaliated as if you recall there were next to none if any at all quests in Southshore that had you attack the Forsaken and instead focused on the Murlocs and Naga meanwhile Varimathras ordered Soutshore be "purged" of Humans.

    So no, the aggressor in Hillsbrad is without any doubt the Forsaken. They went back to their land and then started attacking the Humans who had been living in Soutshore since before the Second War.

    Alterac? That didn't belong to them. In fact if you recall the Forsaken around there were attacking a Dalaran camp who were not being aggressive to the Forsaken.

    There has to be something I've missed because I fail to see how the Humans invaded Forsaken territory in the two examples you've given.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-04-20 at 06:05 PM.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonas View Post
    To be betrayed and slaughtered by your prince, brought back to endure horrific torment as an undead and used to attack those you once care about, then finally freed to only be hunted down and killed off by the living... Yup, can't see why they're so pissy at all...
    just gotta walk it off son...and keep your chin eye, assuming undead still have attached chins

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 06:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    They earned that one and no not because of Putress's rogue actions.
    It dsnt matter if Humans think they deserve it or not
    It only matters to the Forsaken

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 06:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nearmyth View Post
    But seriously, when the humans got turned into the undead or "forsaken" they were driven out, neglected, and treated as monsters by their once former friends and family (their former race, humans). Ever since then they have had a hatred for humans, and systematically, The Alliance.
    Old Hatrds dont die easily....kinda a common theme in Warcraft Saga
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Wait how did they invade Hillsbrad? Southshore was there since before the Second War and for whatever reason remained unscathed during the Third War. The Forsaken then returned to Tarren Mill and started waging war on Southshore who hardly retaliated as if you recall there were next to none if any at all quests in Southshore that had you attack the Forsaken and instead focused on the Murlocs and Naga meanwhile Varimathras ordered Soutshore be "purged" of Humans.

    So no, the aggressor in Hillsbrad is without any doubt the Forsaken. They went back to their land and then started attacking the Humans who had been living in Soutshore since before the Second War.

    Alterac? That didn't belong to them. In fact if you recall the Forsaken around there were attacking a Dalaran camp who were not being aggressive to the Forsaken.

    There has to be something I've missed because I fail to see how the Humans invaded Forsaken territory in the two examples you've given.
    Not humans. The Alliance. Specifically, the Grand Alliance centered around Stormwind. They have no legitimate claims to any of the Lordaeron, Alterac, or Arathi territories and are foreign invaders.

    While some of the satellite areas around the old Lordaeron kingdom are technically up for grabs, the Alliance is antagonizing the Forsaken by taking aggressive actions so close to their territory. Just like how the US didn't take too kindly to the USSR putting nukes in Cuba.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-04-20 at 06:35 PM.

  8. #248
    Their aggressive actions must be just existing, staying at their homes then.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Not humans. The Alliance. Specifically, the Grand Alliance centered around Stormwind. They have no legitimate claims to any of the Lordaeron, Alterac, or Arathi territories and are foreign invaders.
    Nobody has any inherent right to Alterac, that is a pointless discussion.
    Arathi? Holy moley how can they not have a claim to the land when they have the Stromgarde Humans. What right do the Forsaken have to the land then?
    Lordaeron? Well the Alliance do have a few Lordaeron refugees here and there and especially would after TBC where many Lordaeron foot soldiers would've been. They have no where near as many people compared to the Forsaken I will grant you, but they still have a right. OR as Kosak summed up - https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/298167592093364224

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    While some of the satellite areas around the old Lordaeron kingdom are technically up for grabs, the Alliance is antagonizing the Forsaken by taking aggressive actions so close to their territory. Just like how the US didn't take too kindly to the USSR putting nukes in Cuba.
    Where is this happening?
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-04-20 at 07:21 PM.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Nobody has any inherent right to Alterac, that is a pointless discussion.
    Arathi? Holy moley how can they not have a claim to the land when they have the Stromgarde Humans. What right do the Forsaken have to the land then?
    Well the prince of stromgarde is a member of the forsaken.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well the prince of stromgarde is a member of the forsaken.
    "Yes... I was once Prince of the fallen kingdom of Stromgarde."
    "This too failed, but my successor will have done the same."
    "I am Forsaken. My old existence means nothing."


    He has made it clear that he does not consider himself the rightful heir or anything of the sort after his death.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    "Yes... I was once Prince of the fallen kingdom of Stromgarde."
    "This too failed, but my successor will have done the same."
    "I am Forsaken. My old existence means nothing."


    He has made it clear that he does not consider himself the rightful heir or anything of the sort after his death.
    Kind of makes you think he's not quite loyal to the forsaken.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    "Yes... I was once Prince of the fallen kingdom of Stromgarde."
    "This too failed, but my successor will have done the same."
    "I am Forsaken. My old existence means nothing."


    He has made it clear that he does not consider himself the rightful heir or anything of the sort after his death.
    True, that city is such a dump now even the forsaken don't want it.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    Kind of makes you think he's not quite loyal to the forsaken.
    He does seem rather empathetic as far as Forsaken go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    Kind of makes you think he's not quite loyal to the forsaken.
    Seems to imply the opposite really.
    Last edited by leaks; 2013-04-20 at 07:23 PM.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    True, that city is such a dump now even the forsaken don't want it.
    Ha reminds me of this - http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Call_to_Arms

    "The living consider these gutted ruins worth clinging to. Their sentimentality is disgusting!"

    Sounds so ironic given how they launched an offensive for that exact reason .

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    What we do know is that their first interaction with "Alliance" was Garithos. A man who at the time was not acting under authority of the Alliance leadership. Yet despite this he allied with the Forsaken until he was betrayed by the Forsaken who then killed the remaining living of Lordaeron they could.
    I love it when people bring this up, when they are completely incorrect. Garithos WAS the Alliance leadership in what remained of the Post Fall chain of command in Lordaeron. He was the highest ranking Military Officer remaining in the area out of the Human part of the Alliance of Lordaeron. He WAS acting spokesman of the Alliance at the time, and wielded enough influence through his bestowed title as Grand Martial to actually request and recieve aid from Ironforge. Spin it how you want, but Garithos's actions were, and SHOULD be considered the actions of the Alliance at the time. You dont get disown him simply because he didnt recieve his orders directly from a committee member meeting of the acting Alliance faction heads.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Nobody has any inherent right to Alterac, that is a pointless discussion.
    Arathi? Holy moley how can they not have a claim to the land when they have the Stromgarde Humans. What right do the Forsaken have to the land then?
    Lordaeron?
    "Rights" dont mean jack shit to anyone. There is no tag on land that says "property of ____ nation". All nations have taken their territory from others, and those from others, and so on and so forth till the beginning of time.
    An undead can claim a land just as easily as a human can.

    The only thing that matters if you have the power to back up said claims. Rights are an idea/thought, saying you have a right to whatever dsnt mean shit

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 08:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Spin it how you want, but Garithos's actions were, and SHOULD be considered the actions of the Alliance at the time. You dont get disown him simply because he didnt recieve his orders directly from a committee member meeting of the acting Alliance faction heads.
    Also to note is that random NPCs dont have such a world view.
    Forsaken see the actions of the Scarlet Crusade as reason to hate humans
    Humans see the Wrath Gate as reason to hate undead

    Common people dont give a fuck to make such distinctions
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    He does seem rather empathetic as far as Forsaken go.
    Yeah, he does. That can be a real liability.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I guess you didn't know that the Forsaken attacked Gilneas at gunpoint. Garrosh literally had a massive army poised to destroy UC if they didn't invade.

    They don't raise people into mindless servitude, everyone they raise has free will and chooses to join the Forsaken. Why do they choose to join the Forsaken? Because humans are assholes.
    So they murder someone and then raise them going you fight for us and your friends now hate you... some choice. Personally I'd work my way through the undercity and cut that bitches throat myself. Heck if a random Gilnean can it can't be that hard.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

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