Why are the forsaken so hostile against alliance?

[Surfd]

Also to note is that random NPCs dont have such a world view.
Forsaken see the actions of the Scarlet Crusade as reason to hate humans
Humans see the Wrath Gate as reason to hate undead

Common people dont give a fuck to make such distinctions

There is also this.

When it comes down to it, this is the crux of the entire topic at hand for this thread. The Forsaken do not directly hate "The Alliance", rather, they are hostile to them largely by association. The Forsaken mainly have a hate of "Humans" who have gone out of their way to persecute them and treat them like shit simply for being undead. So as a result, they lash out at pretty much any humans who look even remotely hostile. Advance the story along a bit, and you go from "Hostile Humans in Red and White outfits" to "hostile Humans in "insert color here outfits", and pretty soon you are attacking the Alliance, just by association with the fact that some Humans are Alliance.

I mean, other then the Argent Dawn, can you actually name a Human run organization that has not tried to kill or injure the forsaken at pretty much every encounter?

[Maximus Testiculos]

Forsaken betrayed and killed the first human forces they encountered without any remorse you know that. And then they went on killing other humans who were not doing anything to them on the suspicion that they might some day help their enemies. None of these people tried to kill forsaken.
Forsaken never showed that they should be dealt with anything other than suspicion to everyone.

I mean how does this 'poor forsaken that only tries to defend itself' trip that keeps getting repeated work?

[Scummer]

I love it when people bring this up, when they are completely incorrect. Garithos WAS the Alliance leadership in what remained of the Post Fall chain of command in Lordaeron. He was the highest ranking Military Officer remaining in the area out of the Human part of the Alliance of Lordaeron. He WAS acting spokesman of the Alliance at the time, and wielded enough influence through his bestowed title as Grand Martial to actually request and recieve aid from Ironforge. Spin it how you want, but Garithos's actions were, and SHOULD be considered the actions of the Alliance at the time. You dont get disown him simply because he didnt recieve his orders directly from a committee member meeting of the acting Alliance faction heads.

Being Alliance and representing the Alliance are two different things.
The point I was trying to make was that his actions were not representative of the Alliance's beliefs and structure as a faction due to the circumstances of his power, how could they be? He had no contact. I never said his actions were "Alliance actions" I said they weren't representative.

That's the distinction I was making.

[Dreknar20]

Being Alliance and representing the Alliance are two different things.
That's the distinction I was making.

What a faction "represents" completely depends on the people who make up that faction.
Such an idea is different from race to race, person to person

[Jediguy]

Being Alliance and representing the Alliance are two different things.

Except the problem here is you're dealing with Alliance leadership and part of being a leader is that you represent those you lead. I didn't see any member of the Alliance voice any dissension against his behavior, making your suggestion that they thought differently weak indeed. It's dishonest to say that Alliance leadership doesn't represent the Alliance. Leadership are the ones making decisions. Leadership are those who command the masses. If the rest of the Alliance didn't agree with this guy, they should have showed signs of dissension, but they didn't. It was people who would become members of the Horde that stood up to him - not members of the Alliance. If one of your leaders is brazenly acting contrary to your faction, you need to do something to unseat that person from power; your silence is consent.

[bohapjut]

Well the prince of stromgarde is a member of the forsaken.

Seriously, what has Danath been up to for the last three expansions?

[Aquamonkey]

Nobody has any inherent right to Alterac, that is a pointless discussion.

How about the Frostwolves who had been living there in peace for years until the Dwarves invaded?

Arathi? Holy moley how can they not have a claim to the land when they have the Stromgarde Humans. What right do the Forsaken have to the land then?

The way absolute monarchies work is that all the land belongs to the nobles/royalty. Peasants and farmers don't own shit. With the king MIA, all the land goes to the prince, who is part of the Forsaken.

Lordaeron? Well the Alliance do have a few Lordaeron refugees here and there and especially would after TBC where many Lordaeron foot soldiers would've been. They have no where near as many people compared to the Forsaken I will grant you, but they still have a right. OR as Kosak summed up - https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/298167592093364224

Lordaeron is another absolute monarchy, all the land belongs to the nobles/royalty. Peasants and farmers don't own shit. The Kingdom of Lordaeron collapsed, so the land goes to the new regime under Queen Sylvanas.

Where is this happening?

Alterac and Arathi.

[Dreknar20]

Nobody has any inherent right to Alterac, that is a pointless discussion.

No one has inherent right to any land

A kingdom has a buncha land not because of "rights" but because they control it

[Trassk]

Just to throw this in there regarding the forsaken. Perhaps the reason behind why the forsaken hate the alliance, and the humans in general, comes from two fronts.

One, because as its been discribed the forsaken hate humans because of how they were treated when they, having gained there free will, tried to return to there homes, there families, and they were regarded as monsters by the humans still living there, friends and family who they tried to turn to but were cast off as abominations.

Based from this, the other reason is, because of what humans regarded them as and how this rubbed off on the forsaken now with there free will, they began to see humans with a weakness and disdain, the same as what humans saw when they saw forsaken, the same disgust. As forsaken were human once themselves, the trait of simply disregarding what wasn't the same as them, but at the same time being a pale reflection of themselves, still remained as a reflection of there inner turmoil.

basicly, human ignorance still exists in the forsaken, and if humans themselves can be as ignorant to regard there once kin as monsters, why then should the forsaken be any different in how they regard them? Forsaken are corrupted humans at the end of it, and follow the same code of practice.

[Aquamonkey]

No one has inherent right to any land

A kingdom has a buncha land not because of "rights" but because they control it

Being as self-righteous as the Alliance claims to be in their virtue, you'd think they'd respect the borders of other nations.

[bohapjut]

Being as self-righteous as the Alliance claims to be in their virtue, you'd think they'd respect the borders of other nations.

To them and the refugees of Lordaeron, it's their nation. Sums it up: https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/298167592093364224

[Aquamonkey]

To them and the refugees of Lordaeron, it's their nation. Sums it up: https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/298167592093364224

Except that's now how the feudal system works. Land belongs to the royalty and nobility, not the peasants. The Kingdom of Lordaeron collapsed, the land goes to the new regime under Sylvanas.

[Dreknar20]

To them and the refugees of Lordaeron, it's their nation. Sums it up: https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/298167592093364224

But the Forsaken have more "claim" to it because they actually own it

[bohapjut]

Except that's now how the feudal system works. Land belongs to the royalty and nobility, not the peasants. The Kingdom of Lordaeron collapsed, the land goes to the new regime under Sylvanas.

Well I was replying to your comment about their virtue, in their opinion they are trying to righteously reclaim their nation that was hostilely taken over

[Deleted]

its the reverse tbh. The forsaken where originally scourge under the control of the lich king. no different from any undead mob in northrend. They where freed when arthas's powers waned. Unfortunately for them the living members of their race saw them as scourge and tried to wipe them out. The fact that they are the rightful owners of lordaeron is irrelevant to the living.

[jealouspirate]

Once the Forsaken regained free will the first thing they did was join Sylvanas and commit unprovoked slaughter of Alliance humans. Since then, they've made it their goal to develop plague to kill all living creatures on Azeroth, and have Alliance citizens captive as subjects in cruel experiments in the Undercity. Maybe that's why the Alliance doesn't like them.

As far as who has a "right" to Lordaeron, both sides arguably have a claim. It's really not a debate that can be won. In the end, Sylvanas has Lordaeron because they took it by force.

[Haven]

Once the Forsaken regained free will the first thing they did was join Sylvanas and commit unprovoked slaughter of Alliance humans.

I always thought that an order to get lost and never set foot in Lordaeron after recapturing Lordaeron City was offensive enough.

[Jediguy]

Once the Forsaken regained free will the first thing they did was join Sylvanas and commit unprovoked slaughter of Alliance humans.

Unprovoked? Seriously? I guess human leadership trying to evict them from their homes because they were "monsters" had nothing to do with feelings of resentment, eh?

Since then, they've made it their goal to develop plague to kill all living creatures on Azeroth

Don't mistake the rogue undead at the Wrath Gate to be representative of the Forsaken. They were actively fighting against Sylvanas and the Forsaken; it's hard to blame the Forsaken for the actions of those fighting against them. Further still, the Forsaken quickly rendered aid to Silvermoon in the Ghostlands. Sylvanas made it very clear: she hasn't lost any love she had for her homeland. This isn't characteristic of someone who wants to kill "all living creatures."

and have Alliance citizens captive as subjects in cruel experiments in the Undercity. Maybe that's why the Alliance doesn't like them.

Hey, the humans made a bad decision to make enemies with the Forsaken. Whoops?

[Aquamonkey]

Well I was replying to your comment about their virtue, in their opinion they are trying to righteously reclaim their nation that was hostilely taken over

It wasn't really hostilely taken over, it was dismantled by their prince. The heir and owner of that land decided destroy the Kingdom.

[bohapjut]

Hey, the humans made a bad decision to make enemies with the Forsaken. Whoops?

Wat did mindslave Theresa do to make enemies with the Forsaken?

It wasn't really hostilely taken over, it was dismantled by their prince. The heir and owner of that land decided destroy the Kingdom.

Yes I was just explaining the Alliance mentality