Holy Paladin nerfs in PTR patch 5.3

[Kyuuseishu]

EF needs to be nerfed though, so if it went baseline it would take some very, very heavy nerfs.

As a MW I really don't mind it. In 5.4 MWs will see nerfs too, so I'm not exactly "jumping for joy".

I disagree with "very, very heavy", otherwise the talent put in its place would have to be quite strong to even make up some of the lost ground. The beacon change suggested by voidspark already removes quite a bit of the healing from EF blanketing. If EF went baseline I could see the ability itself being removed, but a holy passive being introduced which say causes your word of glory to apply a HoT which was say 33% less healing per tick than it is on live. This reduces the HoT, its initial heal (since EF's base heal is already higher than WoG) and with the beacon change reduces its beacon transfer potential.

[nightfalls]

I disagree with "very, very heavy", otherwise the talent put in its place would have to be quite strong to even make up some of the lost ground. The beacon change suggested by voidspark already removes quite a bit of the healing from EF blanketing. If EF went baseline I could see the ability itself being removed, but a holy passive being introduced which say causes your word of glory to apply a HoT which was say 33% less healing per tick than it is on live. This reduces the HoT, its initial heal (since EF's base heal is already higher than WoG) and with the beacon change reduces its beacon transfer potential.

Not only does the beacon change remove a lot of healing, it removes even more healing by changing spell priority since more resources will have to be concentrated on keeping tanks up than now.

[Deleted]

Take it away from prot/ret, make the HoT baseline with the 15% Beacon Transfer ...

Whats the point really? if you are going to nerf it so its worse than LoD people will use LoD instead and maybe EF for self healing. Even if you make it baseline people will still choose between single target heal and aoe heal as they use the same resource.

I doubt blizzard will ever get it right again as they did in cataclysm with the talent that gave WoG extra crit chance on people below 25% hp, that way it was more useful to use WoG on people below 25% and LoD when no one was below 25%.

[Laere]

Im kinda curious how the daybreak change is going to pan out. seems like fun but at the same time its just another thing to babysit.

Probably just going to change to an HR > HR > HS during heavy AoE damage. For HP build up.

[mcbubble]

I wanted to try 4 piece t15 on some downed heroic bosses (Iron Quon). I probably won't go 4 piece if I get some decent luck with loot. I'm currently iLVL 530.

I find T15 4 piece VERY lackluster.
I run with very low haste and it not only seems sluggish, but the holy power generation feels so much slower. Maybe I was just spoiled with the 4T14, but wow, our holy power generation is so much slower with a 6 second holy shock.

And the 2 piece bonus. Here's a screenshot from my new set compared with a fight from my old set.


Compared with my old set


Here's a link to the pictures above:
http://imgur.com/a/sOD0V

So our 2 piece gave me 2% more healing...which actually averages an over-heal of ~50%...so I gained 1% healing.
Look at the average heal as well. 3k to 3.5k. That's complete rubbish.

So I thought...okay, holy paladins are strong and maybe we need to be nerfed a bit....so I then went to world of logs.
I looked up the top 10 healers for every 25m heroic fight. Granted a lot of this doesn't matter and it's just increasing your HPS #'s...but look at this breakout:
20 holy pallies
20 shammies
41 priests (29 disc, 12 holy)
17 monks
2 druids

I don't understand our nerfs...seriously. I'm really dreading 5.3.
Has anyone else tried the new t15 - please let me know your feelings.

[Laere]

Well with 5.3 coming out in the future, what is everyone's verdict on the gear swap? Will it be to 4pc T15? Off pieces? Stick with T14 4pc?With beacon already heavy overhealing, and the increased healing to daybreak being not that huge of a change, I guess going for increased stats seems more logical, yet is it going to be more optimal? Would still having a 5 second HS CD be better?

[Deleted]

So I thought...okay, holy paladins are strong and maybe we need to be nerfed a bit....so I then went to world of logs.
I looked up the top 10 healers for every 25m heroic fight. Granted a lot of this doesn't matter and it's just increasing your HPS #'s...but look at this breakout:
20 holy pallies
20 shammies
41 priests (29 disc, 12 holy)
17 monks
2 druids

I don't understand our nerfs...seriously. I'm really dreading 5.3.
Has anyone else tried the new t15 - please let me know your feelings.

Your Holy Power generation shouldn't greatly be different, its just the cost that got changed a lot.

Our nerfs are a combination of early dominance due to 4pt14 517ilvl and the scaling of mastery. With 540ilvl we would of reached a stupid mastery % that would end up with 60% of our healing being Illuminated Healing.

The nerfs(and the hopefully soon reversed change to various Tranqs) combined with the drop of 4p will greatly lower paladin overheal healing.

I don't see a point to 20% beacon due to how overpowered prot paladin self healing is atm.

[Aquilesmagno]

The bonus is lackluster, but the stats are worth it. I noticed that in our DA kill last night, the other pally (much better player than me) still uses 4p T14 and always beats me on meters, but the increased spirit, mastery and overall stats gave me an edge. I predict that I'll have that edge for our LS H tries and kill.

[Laere]

The bonus is lackluster, but the stats are worth it. I noticed that in our DA kill last night, the other pally (much better player than me) still uses 4p T14 and always beats me on meters, but the increased spirit, mastery and overall stats gave me an edge. I predict that I'll have that edge for our LS H tries and kill.

Using 4 piece correct? Or just 2 piece? Yes very lastluck which is why I have been thinking of just getting the Tier Helm and Shoulders, and then going off pieces on the rest. I don't really think the beacon bonus is that great nor needed for how much it overheals as is.

Tier Helm and Shoulders are both Spirit/Mastery - 2 Piece (still meh)

Chest off of Lei Shen is Spirit/Haste (More spirit in comparison to reforging the Tier Chest also)
Gloves off of Durumu are Spirit/Mastery
Legs off of Dark Animus are Spirit/Mastery (Used as current off-piece anyways)

I mean is the extra beacon healing worth it, when it already seems to overheal a lot of the time anyways? Anyone else consider this?


Also would like to add the possibility, IF, you use off pieces, and just the T15 Helm and Shoulders, the Ra-Den chest could very well compete for the spot as well against the chest Lei Shi drops. The difference is pretty much trading ~300 spirit (Lei shi) for ~600 mastery (Ra-den) Not including the haste difference, since I don't find it that relevant. Also thats gemming straight spirit. Just did quick napkin math.

[Aquilesmagno]

2 piece atm, I'm going to coin shoulders today and I'll come tomorrow and tell you about the experience

Edit: I won the shoulders, doing tries to LS H, let me come back to you.

Edit 2: I have 4 piece T15 heroic and it broke my dreams. The stats are nice tho.

[Flaring]

Have the mastery scaling from 1.5 to 1.25 changes on PTR been reverted? Can't find them on official notes anymore.

[Laere]

Edit 2: I have 4 piece T15 heroic and it broke my dreams. The stats are nice tho.

Yea, figured as much, I think I'm going to skip on 4 piece this tier, it just doesn't seem needed at all. I've seen other top paladins going this route with just the Tier 15 Shoulders and Helm (Spirit/Mastery), and going off pieces in the other slots also. Since the off pieces have more favorable stats also.

[Deleted]

Have the mastery scaling from 1.5 to 1.25 changes on PTR been reverted? Can't find them on official notes anymore.

Holy


Mastery: Illuminated Healing now places an absorb shield for 10% of the amount healed, down from 12%.

[Deleted]

About the huge Daybreak overhealing, i'm wondering if it's maybe related with the healing going on the HS target ? Otherwise I definetly don't know how I can reach 60% Daybreak overhealing on Megaera, so mostly used during rampages where we are obviously not 100% HP ?!

I'm atm playing with 2PT15 HC, sometimes + 2PT14 HC (i don't have 4P) when doing a lot of HR.

About the 4PT15, I feel like while it's unnecessary in 25m , it can be quite useful in 10 man. On Council HC, we tried something different this week (i'm with a Disc and Rdruid), I focused tank healing while they took care of the raid. My Beacon overhealing dropped from 60% to 30%...
On Megaera HC, it's about 35% (I'm alone with the tank one phase out of two, far away from the raid, so during this phase I'm not really transferring any heals, more stacking HP for breaths).
That's actually pretty decent for 10man in my opinion.

[Deleted]

As for t15. I believe It's gonna be more worth sticking to 2 set and the best off pieces.

With glyphed beacon, and beacon bound to FoL and DL, the gain in holy power generation will most likely outwheigh the gain on larger beacon heals. Especially since alot of the beacon heals are overhealing.

Ever since I swapped to that, I couldn't possible immagine to stick with beacon on current tank. Especially now that t14 4 set is getting nerfed and replaced.

[nightfalls]

With glyphed beacon, and beacon bound to FoL and DL, the gain in holy power generation will most likely outwheigh the gain on larger beacon heals. Especially since alot of the beacon heals are overhealing.

Am I still the only person that actually just (unthinkably) puts Beacon on a tank?

I usually just avoid using Flash or Divine Light on the non-beacon target if possible (sticking with HR, granted in 25m - in 10m I did and would use Holy Light considerably more depending on mana situation).

Personal Reasoning (so don't take this as canon, and I didn't take a lot of time reasoning so I'm open to counter-arguments):

Beacon might be a lot of overhealing, but it's zero healing if it's constantly swapped like that, and also it offers something nice, which would be tank stability (granted 25m also), even if a decent chunk is overheal. The more tank stability, the less people (you and others) will need to burn mana on Flash when it comes to burst on the tank. The tier bonus might be sort of crappy, but given that tanks are actually getting hit very hard in later bosses, it might not actually be (that) bad.

[Deleted]

Am I still the only person that actually just (unthinkably) puts Beacon on a tank?

I usually just avoid using Flash or Divine Light on the non-beacon target if possible (sticking with HR, granted in 25m - in 10m I did and would use Holy Light considerably more depending on mana situation).

Personal Reasoning (so don't take this as canon, and I didn't take a lot of time reasoning so I'm open to counter-arguments):

Beacon might be a lot of overhealing, but it's zero healing if it's constantly swapped like that, and also it offers something nice, which would be tank stability (granted 25m also), even if a decent chunk is overheal. The more tank stability, the less people (you and others) will need to burn mana on Flash when it comes to burst on the tank. The tier bonus might be sort of crappy, but given that tanks are actually getting hit very hard in later bosses, it might not actually be (that) bad.

It's not zero healing at all, because it's not constantly swapped, because you don't spam FoL and DL if not necessary. Granted, I raid 10 man where single target heals are used more frequently than in 25 man. So I guess it depends on your healing style. Beacon is still very high on my list of heals for every fight. I also always swap beacon back to the tank whenever I know I don't have to cast DL or FoL for less than 3 sec. More micro management, but more holy power gain.

Anyways, here's a macro for those like me who use mouse over macros for healing.

/castsequence [target=mouseover,exists,nodead] reset=3 Beacon of Light, Flash of Light
/cast [target=mouseover,exists,nodead] Flash of Light

It might look a bit iffy, but that's the only way I got it to work. I guess there are better written macros out there, but this works perfectly fine. For me at least.

[Deleted]

Am I still the only person that actually just (unthinkably) puts Beacon on a tank?

I usually just avoid using Flash or Divine Light on the non-beacon target if possible (sticking with HR, granted in 25m - in 10m I did and would use Holy Light considerably more depending on mana situation).

Personal Reasoning (so don't take this as canon, and I didn't take a lot of time reasoning so I'm open to counter-arguments):

Beacon might be a lot of overhealing, but it's zero healing if it's constantly swapped like that, and also it offers something nice, which would be tank stability (granted 25m also), even if a decent chunk is overheal. The more tank stability, the less people (you and others) will need to burn mana on Flash when it comes to burst on the tank. The tier bonus might be sort of crappy, but given that tanks are actually getting hit very hard in later bosses, it might not actually be (that) bad.

I also play it this way. I'm in 10 man so definetly HL on the raid when no big damage, and avoid as much as possible FoL or DL on non beacon target (but in 10man I still have to a few times per fight). I don't HR when we're spread out. Maybe should I ? Seems like a waste, only 1 melee most of the time, and I definetly wouldn't HR on a spread ranged.

I glyphed the beacon because we are now trying Primordius HC, and thought I might swap it on the Pathogen, as it will probably require DL or even FoL, and I don't want to waste so much HP. But I wasn't raiding yesterday so couldn't try this ... Anyone has an opinion on this maybe ?

[Deleted]

I also play it this way. I'm in 10 man so definetly HL on the raid when no big damage, and avoid as much as possible FoL or DL on non beacon target (but in 10man I still have to a few times per fight). I don't HR when we're spread out. Maybe should I ? Seems like a waste, only 1 melee most of the time, and I definetly wouldn't HR on a spread ranged.

I glyphed the beacon because we are now trying Primordius HC, and thought I might swap it on the Pathogen, as it will probably require DL or even FoL, and I don't want to waste so much HP. But I wasn't raiding yesterday so couldn't try this ... Anyone has an opinion on this maybe ?

Definitly worth beacon swapping with your fols and dls on primordius hc, it's arguably the best fight for it. You will throw alot of divine and flash of lights on this fight, because the burst tanks and raid members take is insane.

And no, never HR when you're spread out. It's just a waste of mana unless you can utilize most of it.

[Deleted]

Ok !

I tried your macro (I had a separate beacon-mouseover macro), and it's working weird, on the second FoL only the beacon is on, is it intended ? And seems to be even worse when i'm spamming too much my key eheh (which i do all the time ofc!).
Edit : ok, deleted the reset = 3, but still switching beacon on the second FoL

I guess I'll also glyph it on durumu when we try it hc.

Edit 2 : About the HR, i forgot that voidspark is playing 25man, where it's obviously more interesting... those 25 man folks have it easy !