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  1. #21
    I do it on farm all the time cause I'm bored. But once we start it on Heroic... single target all the way for me.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiea View Post
    I am pretty sure there is an ICD for LnL, making it pointless double dotting targets, what you want to do instead could be explosive trap + Black arrow.

    I could be wrong, I just know there was an ICD for it during Cataclysm.
    10 second ICD.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlaena View Post
    10 second ICD.
    Yeah thought it was something like that.

    Which means, you dont black arrow another head, since it's wasted.
    Kiea from Solidarity EU, Tarren Mill
    Stream (Thursday 19:45) | Guild Website

  4. #24
    Only time I dot the non-kill head as SV is when I hit readiness and have black arrow off CD with the dot already up on the kill target (putting it on 2nd target increases proc chance of LnL, though it's arguably not worth the lost focus, seconds of no black arrow on primary target, etc). That's at most twice during that fight.

    If he's using TotH for that fight (which I wouldn't recommend), I could see blue or green getting hit with a MS if he has a LnL proc with TotH procced and he's close to focus capping.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dole4011 View Post
    Only time I dot the non-kill head as SV is when I hit readiness and have black arrow off CD with the dot already up on the kill target (putting it on 2nd target increases proc chance of LnL, though it's arguably not worth the lost focus, seconds of no black arrow on primary target, etc). That's at most twice during that fight.

    If he's using TotH for that fight (which I wouldn't recommend), I could see blue or green getting hit with a MS if he has a LnL proc with TotH procced and he's close to focus capping.
    If you scroll up about, you'll see that LnL has a 10 sec ICD, making it wasted to use it on the other head, as its wasted damage, focus and it delays the reapplication of BA on your original target.
    Kiea from Solidarity EU, Tarren Mill
    Stream (Thursday 19:45) | Guild Website

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiea View Post
    If you scroll up about, you'll see that LnL has a 10 sec ICD, making it wasted to use it on the other head, as its wasted damage, focus and it delays the reapplication of BA on your original target.
    No because having 2 BAs up means that you have a higher chance of proccing LnL at it's ICD. So multi dotting BA would result in more LnL procs, and if you use them one after each other (BA-readiness-BA) you'll only lose a GCD worth of uptime on the primary target.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    No because having 2 BAs up means that you have a higher chance of proccing LnL at it's ICD. So multi dotting BA would result in more LnL procs, and if you use them one after each other (BA-readiness-BA) you'll only lose a GCD worth of uptime on the primary target.
    35 focus is a lot to spend for that given that the BA damage is lost. It may be a dps gain, I'm not sure.

    I would be more inclined to get my second BA up on the last tick of Rantaki or with double trinket + prepot up.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Only valid reason to multi-dot is if you gain procs from said DoTs.

    -Boomkins: Instant Starsurge procs
    -Shadow Priests: Instant Mind Spike and Mind Blast CD reset
    -Warlocks(Aff mostly): Resource gains, extra Soul Shards
    -Hunters: Black Arrow during Readiness time(More LnL procs)

    Otherwise it's just meter padding.
    Allot of that is just metter padding anyways, the amount of time (GCD's) wasted on dealing damg to heads that are 100% useless is probably more then the few extra procs you get out of it but hey everyone likes to be ontop of the meters so pad away. Obviously I didn't actually calculate what the difference would be but just looking over logs I have a hard time believing otherwise.

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by re1gn1te View Post
    Allot of that is just metter padding anyways, the amount of time (GCD's) wasted on dealing damg to heads that are 100% useless is probably more then the few extra procs you get out of it but hey everyone likes to be ontop of the meters so pad away. Obviously I didn't actually calculate what the difference would be but just looking over logs I have a hard time believing otherwise.
    It actually is more DPS, for Moonkins you can sometimes get 3-4 procs in 10 seconds of Starsurge on Magaera and considering Starsurge is the hardest hitter Druids have, it's worth it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlaena View Post
    35 focus is a lot to spend for that given that the BA damage is lost. It may be a dps gain, I'm not sure.

    I would be more inclined to get my second BA up on the last tick of Rantaki or with double trinket + prepot up.
    I have been assuming casting BA on a target that still has BA dots ticking would simply extend the dot adding the full duration of the 2nd BA to the remaining time on the first, much as occurs with ES. Is this not correct?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Namor of Muradin View Post
    I have been assuming casting BA on a target that still has BA dots ticking would simply extend the dot adding the full duration of the 2nd BA to the remaining time on the first, much as occurs with ES. Is this not correct?
    Nope it simply refreshes the dot. BA is not dynamic, so it takes a snapshot of your stats when you cast it and ticks with that for the whole duration. It also does a shitload of dps for 1 gcd, so getting it up with double trinket does a lot of damage.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Only valid reason to multi-dot is if you gain procs from said DoTs.

    -Boomkins: Instant Starsurge procs
    -Shadow Priests: Instant Mind Spike and Mind Blast CD reset
    -Warlocks(Aff mostly): Resource gains, extra Soul Shards
    -Hunters: Black Arrow during Readiness time(More LnL procs)

    Otherwise it's just meter padding.
    Demonology with Unerring Vision of Lei Shen gain so much that I think you should revise that "Aff mostly" part.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by re1gn1te View Post
    Allot of that is just metter padding anyways, the amount of time (GCD's) wasted on dealing damg to heads that are 100% useless is probably more then the few extra procs you get out of it but hey everyone likes to be ontop of the meters so pad away. Obviously I didn't actually calculate what the difference would be but just looking over logs I have a hard time believing otherwise.

    As said, i'd be worried if a moonkin 'wasnt' doing it, as it's a good enough dps increase on single target to do it.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by re1gn1te View Post
    Allot of that is just metter padding anyways, the amount of time (GCD's) wasted on dealing damg to heads that are 100% useless is probably more then the few extra procs you get out of it but hey everyone likes to be ontop of the meters so pad away. Obviously I didn't actually calculate what the difference would be but just looking over logs I have a hard time believing otherwise.
    Affli Lock: 1 Global cooldown to put a Corruption on another head which on average gives you 2 Soul Shards back, making you able to fully reset all your DoT's on a new head or up the damage of your current DoTs on your target by 70% and a huge nuke. (warlock)

    Demo Lock: 1 Global Cooldown to put DOOM on the second target, which if using Unerring Vision procs a fel Imp every 15 seconds; Fel Imps are the only reason Demo is decent at the moment.

    Boomer: 2 Global cooldowns to put both your moon/sunfire up and get insane amounts of instant cast Starsurges which way outdamage anything that you can cast as a boomie.

    Shadow Priest: is not the optimal spec, they don't use instant MS/MB anymore iirc, it's all about MF:Insanity now.

    Hunter: should never touch another head except for the mentioned cleave during add-phase on heroic.

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevyvia View Post
    Demonology with Unerring Vision of Lei Shen gain so much that I think you should revise that "Aff mostly" part.
    Gimmick Trinket is gimmick. Imo, the Caster trinket from Lei Shen is useless, proc rate is so low and it might even proc right when boss enters an immune phase or such.
    Also in the middle of a hectic fight(Lei Shen last phase?), it will be very hard to notice the proc.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 04:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickwickman View Post

    Hunter: should never touch another head except for the mentioned cleave during add-phase on heroic.
    Black Arrow at the start is better than using them separately, you have all your procs up which causes your BA to do a LOT of damage, not to mention the possibility of guaranteed 2 LnL procs during trinket/other procs.

  16. #36
    You should not use 2 seperate black arrows on this as a hunter, instead what you need to do is use 1 black arrow, and 1 explosive trap (they stack) If the trap is placed directly on the serpent head, it will trigger, and do damage to the actual target.

    There may be scenarios like having Renataki's Soul Charm where you want to use your Black Arrow on the last tick, but since I don't have that trinket yet, I can't really speak on how to use it optimally.
    Kiea from Solidarity EU, Tarren Mill
    Stream (Thursday 19:45) | Guild Website

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiea View Post
    You should not use 2 seperate black arrows on this as a hunter, instead what you need to do is use 1 black arrow, and 1 explosive trap (they stack) If the trap is placed directly on the serpent head, it will trigger, and do damage to the actual target.

    There may be scenarios like having Renataki's Soul Charm where you want to use your Black Arrow on the last tick, but since I don't have that trinket yet, I can't really speak on how to use it optimally.
    I really don't think people should be wasting Black Arrows to fish for their first L&L a couple of seconds earlier.

    Refreshing BA with Readiness gives you one free tick on the seconds BA (although you lose overwritten ticks from the first) and I can get my second BA hitting for well over 500k.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post
    I'll go you one better... a hunter in my guild goes MM for this fight exclusively so he can cheese his Aimed! procs onto the full health head taking advantage of the careful aim buff and in so doing tops the meters everytime and then has the balls to talk shit about how good his dps is...

    /scumbag dps ftw?
    If having an Aimed Shot crit makes him top DPS he's probably top DPS anyway because it wouldn't make a huge difference.

  19. #39
    Tell him to uninstall his damage meter and learn the fight.

  20. #40
    I tried MM and I found it not so good. The heads are at 80-100% for like 5-10 seconds, max 3 aimed shots..

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