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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    that isnt really true nagassh, as you cant really do more dps than their maximum potential dps, now if the specs were perfectly tuned for dps and did equal potential dps then you would be correct, but that isnt the case.
    Potentially speaking.. doesn't sims show afflic better? At least single/cleave.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by evertonbelmontt View Post
    Potentially speaking.. doesn't sims show afflic better? At least single/cleave.
    Maybe in absolute BiS gear, but at my 521 ilvl, 9xxx haste cap Affli is simming ~6-7k behind mastery stacked Destro for single target

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumble View Post
    Maybe in absolute BiS gear, but at my 521 ilvl, 9xxx haste cap Affli is simming ~6-7k behind mastery stacked Destro for single target
    Even with the legendary meta?
    I don't think its simulating ok with it then

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by evertonbelmontt View Post
    Even with the legendary meta?
    I don't think its simulating ok with it then
    No that is without the legendary meta. But another lock in my raid group who plays Affli at ~525 ilvl and has the legendary meta says Simcraft DPS went up by ~8-15k depending on number of targets, enough to put it on par with Destro and even beat it in some cases.

  5. #45
    At 530 destro is still ahead of affliction for me with cha-ye's and the meta by around 4k single target, and its entirely because of the gear I'm sporting. Completely reforged out of crit I still have a solid 7000+ish rating.

    Without the meta Affliction was almost 15k behind destruction, the fight strat and your gears going to have a much much bigger impact on when afflictions going to be awesome vs just eyeballing your ilvl. Generalizations like *when you hit 520-525ilvl* are not going to be entirely true. Ilvl's aren't as important as the stats that come with them.

  6. #46
    for me atleast, affliction is about 6-8k behind destro in a heavy mastery decked gear without the legendary meta gem but as i said that is in gear with a lot of mastery and very little haste which affliction loves.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    that isnt really true nagassh, as you cant really do more dps than their maximum potential dps, now if the specs were perfectly tuned for dps and did equal potential dps then you would be correct, but that isnt the case.
    I'd argue they're close enough with the legendary meta that what you're playing will be dictated by either personal skill with the spec and / or fight mechanics.

    I'm not pretending everything's perfectly even, but playing the spec well should make a bigger impact than the theoretical maximum.

  8. #48
    I'm at 528 with 4 set, leg meta, Wush/Cha-Ye. Fully haste stacked, GoSac, affliction is simming about 10k ahead of destro (going for mastery) for me.

    But in the end the sims don't matter that much. There is very little pure single target going on in ToT. What spec to play for what fight is dictated more by the fight itself. Many fights Destro is still going to be better then Affliction for me. Currently playing Affliction for Council, Tortos and Twins. Though i might try affliction for fun on fights like Jhin-rok and Iron Qon now, see how it holds up against my destro numbers. Will probably be Affliction for Dark Animus hc by the time we start on that as well.

  9. #49
    I think the main point at which Affli could potentially become better than Destro is a) Having enough haste (13xxx breakpoint), b) Having the legendary meta, c) Having 2 good RPPM trinkets and d) Having a fight which doesnt favor Destro. You could have 540 ilvl, but if all the gear is heavily stacked with crit or mastery for example, Affli would never out-perform Destro. Affli really really really needs a heavy chunk of haste

    So it's not really that much the ilvl, more like what stats you get from your ilvl and whether you have the meta/trinkets to go along with it.

  10. #50
    It's really fight dependent, The mechanics of fights like Horridon/Tortos/Mag/Primo make it almost impossible to beat Destro in. Once you get past Heroic Primo your gear should be good enough to finish the tier as Aff/Demo.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumble View Post
    I think the main point at which Affli could potentially become better than Destro is a) Having enough haste (13xxx breakpoint), b) Having the legendary meta, c) Having 2 good RPPM trinkets and d) Having a fight which doesnt favor Destro. You could have 540 ilvl, but if all the gear is heavily stacked with crit or mastery for example, Affli would never out-perform Destro. Affli really really really needs a heavy chunk of haste

    So it's not really that much the ilvl, more like what stats you get from your ilvl and whether you have the meta/trinkets to go along with it.
    well according to simcraft GoSac affliction outperforms destro at BiS gear, and since its GoSac it stands to reason that it is a heavy mastery build they are using as mastery tends to be the best stat for GoSac, so a mastery heavy build should do well with GoSac in BiS gear altho haste also have a very high value, but a lot of ppl wont get there so it is mute point.

  12. #52
    Going heavy mastery has worked out well for me as well, although I have more experience with affliction and that probably plays a (large) factor.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    I'd argue they're close enough with the legendary meta that what you're playing will be dictated by either personal skill with the spec and / or fight mechanics.

    I'm not pretending everything's perfectly even, but playing the spec well should make a bigger impact than the theoretical maximum.
    This. People are getting too wrapped up in sims and theory. "X spec is only viable on a wednesday at 3-6pm while having legendary meta, 2 RPPM trinkets, exactly 3 yellow gems, full haste reforge except for the ring, while drinking only dr pepper.". All 3 specs are close to each other. All are viable. Play what you want.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Starfighter View Post
    This. People are getting too wrapped up in sims and theory. "X spec is only viable on a wednesday at 3-6pm while having legendary meta, 2 RPPM trinkets, exactly 3 yellow gems, full haste reforge except for the ring, while drinking only dr pepper.". All 3 specs are close to each other. All are viable. Play what you want.
    Hahah.. I lol'd. Bet destro can do more damage on 512ilvl single target, but o could only manage pass mk3 disruptor on brawlers as afflic.
    True. Playstyle and encounters dictate what's the best.

  15. #55
    But how many encounters there are this tier where affliction is actually best? Maybe Jin'rohk and Ji-kun but it's very high variance depending on RNG, sure your MAX is higher than destro/demo max, but those spec are more stable. Personally i think demonology is best all around spec once you get metagem and UVLS(even LFR version is BiS). Without UVLS i wouldn't demo.

    And this tier bosses are so different so it's good to have two specs. Since UVLS is pretty good for affliction and demonology and there are no bad trinkets for those two specs it's pretty good combo and you can use same reforges. Destruction is somewhat different and trinkets UVLS and Shado-Pan are pretty terrible for it, ideally you want trinkets like Hydra, Wush or Cha-Ye. So basically its like this:

    1. If you have UVLS:
    ->Demonology mainspec
    ->Offspec Affliction if you have metagem or only Shado-Pan trinket with UVLS (HASTE > MASTERY > NO CRIT or MASTERY > HASTE > NO CRIT)
    ->Offspec Destruction (MASTERY > HASTE > CRIT)
    2. No UVLS, but metagem and shado-pan trinket:
    ->Affliction for single target fights and Destruction for AoE/Havoc cleave (MASTERY > HASTE > CRIT)
    3. Otherwise go Destruction for everyfight, it won't be perfect since it has very different stat values for AoE and single target encounters

  16. #56
    Council and Megaira afflic has absolute dominance over destro if you play at same level with both.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by evertonbelmontt View Post
    Council and Megaira afflic has absolute dominance over destro if you play at same level with both.
    I disagree on Megaera, on our kill we had 2 warlocks playing Destruction and myself playing Demonology. Affliction is almost the worst spec for Megaera heroic and if you mean normal, Affliction could beat other specs IF you multidot heads which is pointless(only corruption makes sense)

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifonology View Post
    I disagree on Megaera, on our kill we had 2 warlocks playing Destruction and myself playing Demonology. Affliction is almost the worst spec for Megaera heroic and if you mean normal, Affliction could beat other specs IF you multidot heads which is pointless(only corruption makes sense)
    Before i go into details... have you read the topic about the UVOLS?
    If not, go take a look, after that, search in worldoflogs.com

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by evertonbelmontt View Post
    Before i go into details... have you read the topic about the UVOLS?
    If not, go take a look, after that, search in worldoflogs.com
    ^ This. After discovering the SS bug my DPS went up by about 50k. Kind of sad but also adds an interesting dynamic to the gameplay... while it lasts.
    [IMGhttp://i.imgur.com/3HsjG6r.png[/IMG]

    It is better to have raided and wiped, then to never have raided at all.

  20. #60
    My dps was actually lower on Megs trying the SS thing on Megs tonight, even though it seemed like a hefty increase on the target dummies

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