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  1. #41
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    The half-ogres and half-elves would come to take the place of the ogres and high elves respectively, as well as your Ethereal elves and Crystal ogres, i.e. they would come to correct the problems that "prevent" the ogres and high elves be playable, namely:



    Although frankly, I find your proposal more interesting than mine xD.
    Thank you

    For half-ogres it could work, to be honest I had to think of what race would fit and be cool for the Horde but simple ogres had their problem but half-ogres are nice as well.

    For half-elves, I'm not sure because you're falling into the other extreme, you're making them look too much like humans... This is the problem, high elves can't be too similar to blood elves in looks but neither can they be too similar to any Alliance race since then, what would be so special about them?
    I can understand people want high elves, but unless the factions merge or you get the ability to switch factions and keep your race (kind of a traitor quest) that won't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    But it means people will still keep asking for High Elves, so we'll end up with four elf races...
    I am not sure, I thought I wrote in first post, maybe I forgat, when Alleria comes back, having somewhat perfected the transformation and knowing that etheral elves do not feel the hunger for arcane, offers this sollution to the remaining high elves. Since they were lacking a power source, they accept. All high elves become etheral elves. People wouldn't have what to ask for anymore, as high elves would all evolve, there would be none left.

  2. #42
    As long as there aren't high elves actually in the game people are going to be upset, whether you kill them all off or not
    I really can't see this solving any problems, it just combines two concepts into something lesser than either

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    For half-ogres it could work, to be honest I had to think of what race would fit and be cool for the Horde but simple ogres had their problem but half-ogres are nice as well.
    I agree with half-ogres. They would be a bit stronger than orcs and smarter than ogres.

  4. #44
    Bloodsail Admiral DonQShot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokaproductionist View Post
    I agree with half-ogres. They would be a bit stronger than orcs and smarter than ogres.
    Nah the interesting bit about Ogres 4 me is their twin-disfunctional heads lol. half ogres only have 1...

  5. #45
    Dear people complaining about hight issues and Ogres,

    Ogres are the same size as Moonkin, and they both currently share skeletons and animations. Yes Ogres would look silly riding some mounts, but that hasn't stopped Tauren in the past, nor Moonkin now, from riding them. These are not valid reasons to exclude Ogres.

    Signed, A Moonkin

  6. #46
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    Actually.

    I like it.

    The inherent problem with ogres is the size thing (imagine an ogre riding a low-riding mount, like the goblin trike, orc wolf, or mechano hog.)
    Giving them a deviant that's smaller than the current ogre is a good idea.

    The only problem with putting players as a "New race" that's been offshot from former soldiers of another race is the limited population. Lorewise, it's hard to explain why there's thousands of these people when only hundreds existed in the first place. A good example on how they've done something like this "Correctly" in the past would be Worgen, Goblin, Pandaren, or even Blood Elven story archs. (Where entire populations are forced to take up arms) You'd need a significant chunk of a nation to provide a new race.
    I don't think there's a problem with Ogres, there are ogres clans that have the same size the Taurens have or are even smaller

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 09:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    The half-ogres and half-elves would come to take the place of the ogres and high elves respectively, as well as your Ethereal elves and Crystal ogres, i.e. they would come to correct the problems that "prevent" the ogres and high elves be playable, namely:

    There are Ogres with the same size or smaller than Taurens..., in Ogrila there's an ogre that explain that, is not that the Ogres are dumb is just that the chosed not to use their head (or heads), so you put that Ogre as Rexxar right hand and make him teach the Ogres their old ways...

  7. #47
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    As long as there aren't high elves actually in the game people are going to be upset, whether you kill them all off or not
    I really can't see this solving any problems, it just combines two concepts into something lesser than either
    That's your opinion and I respect it, I just don't agree here.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonQShot View Post
    Nah the interesting bit about Ogres 4 me is their twin-disfunctional heads lol. half ogres only have 1...
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Dear people complaining about hight issues and Ogres,

    Ogres are the same size as Moonkin, and they both currently share skeletons and animations. Yes Ogres would look silly riding some mounts, but that hasn't stopped Tauren in the past, nor Moonkin now, from riding them. These are not valid reasons to exclude Ogres.

    Signed, A Moonkin
    It mostly depends from zone to zone. For example, I remember some ogres in Blade's Edge being twice as high as my night elf, and night elf aren't that short. On the other hand, I remember places where ogres were the size of my night elf, which was weird. I think Blizzard wasn't very consistent with the size of ogres to be honest, they treat them like regular mobs (meaning that the more they grow in level, the bigger they are, I remember the Twilight Highlands ogres being huge)

    Quote Originally Posted by maxilian View Post
    There are Ogres with the same size or smaller than Taurens..., in Ogrila there's an ogre that explain that, is not that the Ogres are dumb is just that the chosed not to use their head (or heads), so you put that Ogre as Rexxar right hand and make him teach the Ogres their old ways...
    I admit I don't remember that, good you pointed it out.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Ogres are too big and too dumb -> The half-ogres would be smaller and more intelligent.
    Trouble is, not all Ogres are "dumb". Some are smart. Some are VERY smart. All you need is suggest the players are one of the more intelligent ones. Which fits. Thats why they are players/

    The high elves are too similar to blood elves and presumably are few in number -> The half-elves would have different models of the blood elves
    Kinda misses the point and is totally unnecessary. Any changes would also need to be minor other wise you wouldn't have High Elves.

    You coud give the High Elves a new body, one akin to Nozdormus for example. You could give them a starter zone and all the trappings of a new race. That would probably satisfy most players. But would the changes be enough to actually justify the investment?

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-04-18 at 10:19 PM.

  9. #49
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    Cho'Gall isn't dumb

  10. #50
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Trouble is, not all Ogres are "dumb". Some are smart. Some are VERY smart. All you need is suggest the players are one of the more intelligent ones. Which fits. Thats why they are players/



    Kinda misses the point and is totally unnecessary. Any changes would also need to be minor other wise you wouldn't have High Elves.

    You coud give the High Elves a new body, one akin to Nozdormus for example. You could give them a starter zone and all the trappings of a new race. That would probably satisfy most players. But would the changes be enough to actually justify the investment?

    EJL
    I really don't agree at all making them similar to Nozdormu, since merely he uses a peach skinned, pointy eared night elf model. If they are introduced, they will have to use a model more similar to blood elves, that is just common sense.

    I personally want them more as a sub race type of thing giving the horde an alliance race somehow for balance, but if they end up being sold like a new cake, the model HAS to be closer to the blood elven one, HAS to. Maybe different animations would be the way to go?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Because a lot of people want it, they've been an integral part of Alliance lore since Warcraft I, there would be little to no retconning involved, and they have perfect reason to fight against the Horde.
    Elves only appeared in Warcraft 2, actually.

    Warcraft 1 had, as it said on the box, Orcs and Humans. And slimes! Slimes for playable race!


    (actually to be fair, Warcraft 1 also had neutral ogres)

  12. #52
    Epic! RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbot View Post
    And frankly, with the pseudo-Victorian worgen, the steam punk gnomes and goblins and everything else in this game, it isn't like WoW puts a great deal of stock in thematic consistency.
    Thematic consistency is for IPs with no room for innovation!
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    Cho'Gall isn't dumb
    Cho'Gall, and other Ogres like him are outliers, the Ogre magi are known to be a cut above the typical Ogre. We've clearly seen in game that many Ogres can't even form proper sentences, how are they supposed to be taken seriously as adventurers? Though there are some that aren't too dumb, is it enough to justify a large number of Ogres independently operating as Horde freelancers around the world? There would have to be something particular about the playable Ogres separating them from the typical Ogres we encounter throughout Azeroth and Outland
    Last edited by RabidHexley; 2013-04-19 at 07:14 AM.

  14. #54
    What's this about ogres being dumb?
    Sure they've always been represented as not super-bright, but the Stonemauls for one don't seem to be too bad. Besides, Ogre magi aren't stupid.

    And I think they vary in size a lot; sometimes they're about as big as tauren really (in Warcraft 3 lower level ogres were actually quite tiny).

    Ogres are stupid in the same way that Goblins tend to blow themselves up, gnomes freak out on technology and male blood elves have sex with eachother :P. Sure, they are and it should be reflected in some way, but by no mean does it incur vast consequences on designing them as a playable race.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon2K View Post
    What's this about ogres being dumb?
    Sure they've always been represented as not super-bright, but the Stonemauls for one don't seem to be too bad. Besides, Ogre magi aren't stupid.

    And I think they vary in size a lot; sometimes they're about as big as tauren really (in Warcraft 3 lower level ogres were actually quite tiny).

    Ogres are stupid in the same way that Goblins tend to blow themselves up, gnomes freak out on technology and male blood elves have sex with eachother :P. Sure, they are and it should be reflected in some way, but by no mean does it incur vast consequences on designing them as a playable race.
    The intelligence doesn't pose an issue when the Ogre is acting under some form of leadership or as part of a tribe, but a playable Ogre would have to be justified as being smart enough to operate under independent motivation as they travel the world helping people with problems, riding around on mounts, and partaking in the study of professions such as alchemy or archeology. This isn't an issue any of the current playables have. It doesn't discount Ogres overall, Just saying it'd be necessary for the playable Ogres to have something about them making it reasonable for them to be doing these things.

  16. #56
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    Do'gol is a regular ogre blacksmith for example, he seems intelligent enough to act on his own. Entire quest chain http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:The_Bl...ield_(Horde_2) he might not have a perfect grasp on grammar but talks reasonably enough.

  17. #57

    Smile

    As I said before, my opinion is that both Ogres and High Elves have to be playable races by themselves (with all the "problems" that it would entail).
    However on this occasion I would like to share my opinion on what model a High Elf should have.

    We agree that the High Elves have a serious problem: their complete similarity with respect to the blood elves, however that may change radically with new lore added (as proposed in this thread for example) but this time I'm going to skip that point too.

    The question is, would it be possible to differentiate the High Elves of the Blood Elves with the current lore? I think so. Enough with new models, animations and distinctive voices, would it be feasible? of course you do.

    As an example you can see the high elf model for Sylvanas that Vaanel did:


    A High Elf Sylvanas patrolling the forests of Greenwood:



  18. #58
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    Both High elves and Blood elves were a night elf reskin in classic. The model was changed when Blood Elves released as playable, no reason couldn't do the same with High elves too.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    Both High elves and Blood elves were a night elf reskin in classic. The model was changed when Blood Elves released as playable, no reason couldn't do the same with High elves too.
    The only reason would be to make more distinguishable the high elves from the blood elves, however there are many ways to do it, and one of them is by assigning a different model each race taking advantage of that Blizzard are remodeling all races.


  20. #60
    The idea that high elves would look just like blood elves is absurd. We all know Blizzard wouldn't release that class the way everyone has described. They COMPLETELY redid goblins and worgen even though they already had models, so chances are High Elves would get new models as well. Blood Elves aren't just white night elves, High elves wouldn't be just blue-eyed Blood Elves.

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