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  1. #121
    I think you're missing my points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    You can already play a Grimtotem tauren, and Dark Iron dwarves are allied with the rest of the dwarves (be nice if there was a skin color option for it though), High Elves are major player on the opposite faction though, the Silver Covenant both in Wrath and now in Isle of Thunder for Alliance players...
    How can you play a Grimtotem, since they're hostile to the Horde (and cutting deals with the Alliance)? Dark Iron dwarves are nominally friendly with the Alliance now, but they're also a separate political entity. Players are Iron Forge dwarves. Likewise, those high elves in the Silver Covenant are of the same people as the blood elves they're warring against.

    a simple reskin wouldn't be any good since they're not allied with the Horde (which is not a problem for, say, Dark Iron dwarves)
    Why reskin anything? The current high elf model is exactly appropriate for the race. It's the same as the blood elf because they are the same species. Blood and high elves are separated by nothing more than a few years of sociopolitical disagreement.

    Even if high elves are important to the story right now, that doesn't mean they have to become playable in the future. Mogu are pretty important to the story right now, that doesn't mean we're gonna see them as a playable race. I see nothing so compelling anywhere in lore right now that says high elves need to be playable.

    Now, I can see Blizzard possibly going in a direction like what the OP discussed. Creating some radically new lore would that gives reason to transform some segment of the high elf population would be...controversial, to say the least. But it could also be a way to tell a new story, tied to old lore that a small number of players are very interested in.

    I love these creative speculation threads as much as the next geek, but let's be honest: player ideas for new races and classes are not even background noise for Blizzard. PvE balance, PvP balance, content creation, content tuning, etc., etc., etc., occupies nearly all the feedback they take in from their players.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    Deathbringer Kor'ush would like to have a word with you...

    Ogre death knights are like Abominations in a suit of armor with the added bonus of insight on necromatic magics and minus the smell.
    And the reason I said "possibly." How many others can you name?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    Why reskin anything? The current high elf model is exactly appropriate for the race. It's the same as the blood elf because they are the same species. Blood and high elves are separated by nothing more than a few years of sociopolitical disagreement.
    Current models of the High Elves are mere placeholders! They do not represent the authentic Quel'dorei at all!

    Their pompous and extravagant animations are not worthy of a High Elf and indeed the voices they have are those of the night elves ...

    We want high elf models of they own! with animations and voices completely new and distinguishable from the demonic elves of the Horde. Of course new models also would be needed with a slightly different bodies and faces with no facial hair or piercings...

    In conclusion, we do not want blood elves in the Alliance! we want high elves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    Even if high elves are important to the story right now, that doesn't mean they have to become playable in the future. Mogu are pretty important to the story right now, that doesn't mean we're gonna see them as a playable race. I see nothing so compelling anywhere in lore right now that says high elves need to be playable.
    The high elves are not a fad, make no mistake ... They are an essential part of the Alliance since the beginning of time and always have their due importance.

    The fact of being a playable race is something that has been requested to Blizzard from the origins of WoW, and is a debt that they have towards the Alliance.


  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    And the reason I said "possibly." How many others can you name?
    Deathsmasher Modgar?


    ---------- Post added 2013-04-27 at 01:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    How can you play a Grimtotem, since they're hostile to the Horde (and cutting deals with the Alliance)? Dark Iron dwarves are nominally friendly with the Alliance now, but they're also a separate political entity. Players are Iron Forge dwarves. Likewise, those high elves in the Silver Covenant are of the same people as the blood elves they're warring against.
    I meant with current customization you can choose the Grimtotem skin when making a tauren but not the Dark Iron skin
    Why reskin anything? The current high elf model is exactly appropriate for the race. It's the same as the blood elf because they are the same species. Blood and high elves are separated by nothing more than a few years of sociopolitical disagreement.
    Both high elves and dark iron dwarves have models/skins ingame already. You can see Moira and the Dark iron allied with the rest of the dwarves in the Blood in the Snow scenario, issue is the high elves are allied with the Alliance not the blood elves

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-27 at 01:53 PM ----------

    some more ogre dk abilities...

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Current models of the High Elves are mere placeholders! They do not represent the authentic Quel'dorei at all!
    Why not? Be specific. What, in the handful of years since the high elf society fractured, has happened that would physically transform them to the point that the Blizzard art department needs to start fresh with a new character model to depict them? Have the grown taller or shorter? Thinner or heavier? Are their knees reverse jointed, or perhaps the have four eyes now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    The fact of being a playable race is something that has been requested to Blizzard from the origins of WoW, and is a debt that they have towards the Alliance.
    I'd think, if Blizzard "owes" the Alliance anything regarding its races, it's new lore for draenei and worgen, existing playable races who haven't received any attention since their introduction expansions. How are the Draenei contributing to the war effort in Pandaria and other fronts on Azeroth? How are the Gilneans coping with their transformation, and their exile from their homeland? Answers to these questions would draw a lot of interest from a large swath of the player base.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    to the OP: No.

    Just give the Horde regular ogres, the only people that really care about pretty for the Horde will still be playing BE's anyway. As far as High Elf, I still believe they should remain as they are currently as a near-extinct race and give Alliance something else, like Furbolgs. Also Ogre rogues? It is "an unusual class for Ogres" Warrior, Hunter, Shaman, Mage, Warlock. Priest, monk and DK possibly.
    Yes, but furbolgs don't appear every expansion, do they?
    And just because they're big it doesn't mean they shouldn't be rogues. Sure, rogues in mechanics are about stealh, but if we look at all the rogue trees, the combat tree is more a swashbucker kind of tree, and the assassination tree would fit ogres good enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    How can you play a Grimtotem, since they're hostile to the Horde (and cutting deals with the Alliance)? Dark Iron dwarves are nominally friendly with the Alliance now, but they're also a separate political entity. Players are Iron Forge dwarves. Likewise, those high elves in the Silver Covenant are of the same people as the blood elves they're warring against.
    In the Shattering, when Baine returned to Thunder Bluff, some of the Grimtotem were caught (a lot of them in fact) since they were taken by surprise. Then Baine said something like "if you accept me as leader and swear to never try something like this again, you can remain, otherwise leave and never return". A female Grimtotem lady stepped forward with a child and asked for forgiveness, then her mate also. A few more did the same. So there's Grimtotem still inside the tauren whole. If you think about it, all the black tauren are Grimtotem, and all Grimtotem are black tauren. And you could play a black tauren since the start of WoW. While it may seem like the Grimtotem story is one of different tribes... it's actually racial segregation. Black tauren versus the rest.

    Also, while in Stonetalon you cut deals with the Grimtotem as Alliance... in Thousand Needles you then went on to kill them as Alliance, including one of the guys you originally allied with...

    And, after the Blood in Snow scenario, the dark irons are fully an integral part of the Alliance. Forever? We may never know, by same aspect I might wonder if the Warsong orcs will forever be in the Horde, we can't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    I'd think, if Blizzard "owes" the Alliance anything regarding its races, it's new lore for draenei and worgen, existing playable races who haven't received any attention since their introduction expansions. How are the Draenei contributing to the war effort in Pandaria and other fronts on Azeroth? How are the Gilneans coping with their transformation, and their exile from their homeland? Answers to these questions would draw a lot of interest from a large swath of the player base.
    I have to agree with this though.

  7. #127
    So we've got two known Ogre DK's, so my statement of "possibly" DK's is valid. Not an argument, it's a matter of speculation.

    Furbolgs not in every expansion? So? Irrelevent. Where were Draenei? Pandas?

    It's not just about size for Ogre Rogues, there are not found anywhere in game. Yada yada TCG, not in-game.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    So we've got two known Ogre DK's, so my statement of "possibly" DK's is valid. Not an argument, it's a matter of speculation.

    Furbolgs not in every expansion? So? Irrelevent. Where were Draenei? Pandas?

    It's not just about size for Ogre Rogues, there are not found anywhere in game. Yada yada TCG, not in-game.
    Furbolgs not in every expansion is relevant because high elves are, and both are sort of Alliance races some people want.

    Worgen anything besides warrior I guess weren't found anywhere in game before Cataclysm.
    Goblin shamans weren't found anywhere in game before Cataclysm.
    Blood elf warlocks weren't found anywhere in game before Burning Crusade.
    No death knights besides human (and forsaken I guess) weren't found anywhere in the game before Wrath.

    I just don't see your argument.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    It's not just about size for Ogre Rogues, there are not found anywhere in game. Yada yada TCG, not in-game.
    Only shows how good they are.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    It's not just about size for Ogre Rogues, there are not found anywhere in game. Yada yada TCG, not in-game.
    yea they are they're just stealthed

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    Furbolgs not in every expansion is relevant because high elves are, and both are sort of Alliance races some people want.

    Worgen anything besides warrior I guess weren't found anywhere in game before Cataclysm.
    Goblin shamans weren't found anywhere in game before Cataclysm.
    Blood elf warlocks weren't found anywhere in game before Burning Crusade.
    No death knights besides human (and forsaken I guess) weren't found anywhere in the game before Wrath.

    I just don't see your argument.
    You don't see my argument because you only see what you want. You're not even giving me a valid argument.

    First, Worgen were humans, part of the kingdom of Lordaeron, so it's not necessary to see them exist in game. We know that if people existed beyond the wall, they would have magic.

    Goblin Shamans came out of nowhere. +1

    Blood Elf Blood Mages used demonic fire magic.

    Also, death knights. We know death knights that were not human existed in lore, in fact some of the first ever DK's were Orcs.

    Please just stop, you're using irrelevent points, some incorrect, to say that High Elves should be a race. Ok great, I say they shouldn't. Get over it, it's my opinion.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    You don't see my argument because you only see what you want. You're not even giving me a valid argument.

    First, Worgen were humans, part of the kingdom of Lordaeron, so it's not necessary to see them exist in game. We know that if people existed beyond the wall, they would have magic.

    Goblin Shamans came out of nowhere. +1

    Blood Elf Blood Mages used demonic fire magic.

    Also, death knights. We know death knights that were not human existed in lore, in fact some of the first ever DK's were Orcs.

    Please just stop, you're using irrelevent points, some incorrect, to say that High Elves should be a race. Ok great, I say they shouldn't. Get over it, it's my opinion.
    Sure it is, because we didn't know before Cataclysm that the Gilneans were the worgen. Sure, we saw Pyrewood Village, but that was outside the walls. If anything, I remember people thinking the Gilneans were attacked by nagas.

    Fine on blood elf mages.

    They were orcs in soul, they were humans in body.

    And I don't want high elves, I want etheral elves. I respect your opinion, just don't agree with it, as you don't with mine either I see.

  13. #133
    Nice ideas, based in lore. I think the crystal ogres would be interesting, although Blizzard might be afraid of die-hard fans complaining for their lack of regular Ogres. I really liked the rock and crystal themed creatures in Deepholm, so I wouldn't mind it expressed in a race, would definetely make a change.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainiothon View Post
    Nice ideas, based in lore. I think the crystal ogres would be interesting, although Blizzard might be afraid of die-hard fans complaining for their lack of regular Ogres. I really liked the rock and crystal themed creatures in Deepholm, so I wouldn't mind it expressed in a race, would definetely make a change.
    Well, they still gave the blood elves to the Horde even if there are people even now complaining, and to be honest I think it was a good choice, so you never know.

  15. #135
    I like the idea, and find it quite brilliant: pleases lots of people without abusing "rehashes". New lore that isn't complete bullshit, iconic races and a fitting theme, what more could you ask for? I think that introductions to these races should be really well done though, otherwise they would be perceived as trashy. People have to know about Ogri'la and their relations with crystals for example, otherwise they'd go all "cristalz ogrz lulwut so stoopid".
    Big thumbs up, and that's something coming from a guy that hates High Elves (see avatar)!

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-04 at 12:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Current models of the High Elves are mere placeholders! They do not represent the authentic Quel'dorei at all!

    Their pompous and extravagant animations are not worthy of a High Elf and indeed the voices they have are those of the night elves ...

    We want high elf models of they own! with animations and voices completely new and distinguishable from the demonic elves of the Horde. Of course new models also would be needed with a slightly different bodies and faces with no facial hair or piercings...

    In conclusion, we do not want blood elves in the Alliance! we want high elves!


    The high elves are not a fad, make no mistake ... They are an essential part of the Alliance since the beginning of time and always have their due importance.

    The fact of being a playable race is something that has been requested to Blizzard from the origins of WoW, and is a debt that they have towards the Alliance.
    Your mix of RP and seriousness is seriously disturbing man One moment I find a valid argument, then I see "demonic elves", that's just a let-downer!
    Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    I like the idea, and find it quite brilliant: pleases lots of people without abusing "rehashes". New lore that isn't complete bullshit, iconic races and a fitting theme, what more could you ask for? I think that introductions to these races should be really well done though, otherwise they would be perceived as trashy. People have to know about Ogri'la and their relations with crystals for example, otherwise they'd go all "cristalz ogrz lulwut so stoopid".
    Big thumbs up, and that's something coming from a guy that hates High Elves (see avatar)!
    Thank you

    Yes, I agree, their introduction should be done right, not just "and now go to SW/Org and talk to Varian/new warchief and you're done". No, make it clear on why they decide to join the respective factions, like Alleria coming and holding a speech with the player, Rexxar talking to the warchief, something like that at least.

  17. #137
    I thought Grimtotem Tauren were specifically the ones with black fur and white markings/paint. Just because we've had access to black fur since Vanilla doesn't mean we've been playing Grimtotem since then; they've always, always been denoted more by the markings than the fur color. And forgive me if they finally added it but last time I made a Tauren we only had access to fur colors and patterns.
    In fact regardless of their lore standing Blizz has been kinda lazy about adding any of the offshoot races (clans?) as customization options. As far as I can remember we've always had greyish as a Dwarf option, but never anything as dark as the actual Dark Irons, and stuff like the Mag'har and Dragonmaw skins have always just been wishlist items of players.
    Still, wouldn't be surprised if they finally did add them along with the new player models, to give that feature even more "oomf" so less people complain. It'd be almost like giving a whole bunch of new races all at once!

    I think I might've popped in here before, I can't remember. Personally I think the Crystal Ogre idea works nice, and would help with the NPC dialogue not being a bunch of "You go smash 10 piggies for grub!" The Ethereal Elf idea sounds dumb, I think it's 'cuz it's based almost entirely on new, never-hinted-at lore instead of being rooted in stuff we already know about. Some people like the brand-new, but WoW doesn't have the greatest track record with adding things out of nowhere and giving them the follow-up they need to really mesh.
    I think I'd just prefer regular Ogres and High Elves, if I had to take them, I'd still prefer almost any other race to High Elf as 3 flavors of Elf sounds dumb, but then I'd also expect a new model for them because 1) they'd be an expansion feature and there's no way Blizz would put some 5-year-old model in the ads 2) it'd be stupid on their part to not take the extra development time they'd get with an expansion to knock a race off their to-do list. I wouldn't like it as much if they had the exact same model as Blood Elves, but from a logical standpoint they really shouldn't be that different, either. Since they bring up all these conflicting thoughts I think I'd just prefer another race entirely, ones that'd be guaranteed to be all fresh ingredients and lore.

  18. #138
    Lol I wonder how a female Ogre would look like.

    But I'd prefer a Humanoid mutation of Nerubians over the Ethereals.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinderborn View Post
    High Elves and Half Elves should be integrated as additional skins of "Humans." Cultural and biological similarities are sufficent to allow elves and humans to marry and reproduce. The models already exist in game. The Human racials are perfectly reasonable for High Elves that, through strength of spirit, resisted their magical additictions. High Elf lore gets developed through the Silver Covenant and, to a lesser extent, the Kirin Tor. Personally, I don't get why this hasn't already been done...
    High elf with human trinket racial? yes please!

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Scunosi View Post
    I thought Grimtotem Tauren were specifically the ones with black fur and white markings/paint. Just because we've had access to black fur since Vanilla doesn't mean we've been playing Grimtotem since then; they've always, always been denoted more by the markings than the fur color. And forgive me if they finally added it but last time I made a Tauren we only had access to fur colors and patterns.
    In fact regardless of their lore standing Blizz has been kinda lazy about adding any of the offshoot races (clans?) as customization options. As far as I can remember we've always had greyish as a Dwarf option, but never anything as dark as the actual Dark Irons, and stuff like the Mag'har and Dragonmaw skins have always just been wishlist items of players.
    Still, wouldn't be surprised if they finally did add them along with the new player models, to give that feature even more "oomf" so less people complain. It'd be almost like giving a whole bunch of new races all at once!

    I think I might've popped in here before, I can't remember. Personally I think the Crystal Ogre idea works nice, and would help with the NPC dialogue not being a bunch of "You go smash 10 piggies for grub!" The Ethereal Elf idea sounds dumb, I think it's 'cuz it's based almost entirely on new, never-hinted-at lore instead of being rooted in stuff we already know about. Some people like the brand-new, but WoW doesn't have the greatest track record with adding things out of nowhere and giving them the follow-up they need to really mesh.
    I think I'd just prefer regular Ogres and High Elves, if I had to take them, I'd still prefer almost any other race to High Elf as 3 flavors of Elf sounds dumb, but then I'd also expect a new model for them because 1) they'd be an expansion feature and there's no way Blizz would put some 5-year-old model in the ads 2) it'd be stupid on their part to not take the extra development time they'd get with an expansion to knock a race off their to-do list. I wouldn't like it as much if they had the exact same model as Blood Elves, but from a logical standpoint they really shouldn't be that different, either. Since they bring up all these conflicting thoughts I think I'd just prefer another race entirely, ones that'd be guaranteed to be all fresh ingredients and lore.
    Well, I do find it plausible if it's back to Outland where everything is more messed up that before, as in crystal overloads and catastrophes similar to what happened to the Ethereal (last time I checked the Ethereal were a "normal" race until some Voidlord messed up their planet along with its inhabitants, making them ethereal).

    So, you'd have crystal overloads or something at Ogri'la and high exposure to some kind of rays/void matter for the High Elves. To be honest I even find it more acceptable than the Pandaren's cultural rehash.
    Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8

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