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  1. #61
    while I've personally not seen those things in any guild applications - primarily because I've not applied for a high end guild since TBC - I think they're all valid questions. I'll not list why perse, as thats already been done lots, but other than the macro question, which I can see why but isn't really needed, the others seem pretty valid to me.

  2. #62
    High Overlord braayden's Avatar
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    Here's a top 100 guild - http://echoes-guild.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8831
    I like this approach and it's one that I've followed for years when I played at a higher level than I do now; if you're a good player you'll already know what I want to hear from you in an application form. I don't give a hoot what your UI looks like. I can tell your progression or lack thereof from your armory, your guild history and previous apps from a Google search, your current guild's logs if they have them.

    When I recruited I looked for someone willing to give me a bit extra or say "Right, well, I didn't kill this boss because X" or "I really liked this fight because I did Y" This is the kind of info I put in an app, but like the OP I'm now put-off by questions they expect more time on than a job application. Raiders are a dying breed these days, this sort of behaviour does not help.
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  3. #63
    Listing of macros and rotation is something lower tier guilds do, because they want someone who knows how to play, this is VERY rarely done at top end guilds.

    The guild i've played in for over 3 years now, application asks you for the following -

    Screenshot
    World of Logs
    Internet connection

    The rest is personal information, hobbies, can you attend times, any future vacations coming up soon?

    When I applied to my current guild, I made a dogshit application, my UI wasn't very pretty, the text I had written was pretty meh, yet I still got accepted and I am one of the best players in the guild, and a similar story follows the majority of the best players in my guild.

    Some guilds may ask for a bit more, such as your talents, glyphs and what not.


    It's a common misconception that top guilds require trivial information as how your rotation works, macros, those are things you are expected to know already, and will be able to be seen if you know, otherwise you just fail your trial.
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  4. #64
    Written apps for 10man guilds are a waste of time. The way our recruitment process goes is simple:

    There's an initial in-game discussion to figure out if someone is even worth considering. Obviously there needs to be room for a potential applicants role/spec, and we can have a look at his armory. We also ask for previous mains in case experience doesn't look too good. If everything looks okay, we set up an interview on voice chat. There we discuss things like past experience, how they approach new fights and other things. If we're happy with the interview, we offer a trial.

    Several of our good players have told us that one of the reasons they chose to apply to our guild instead of similar or slightly better progressed guilds is that they didn't have to deal with stupid forum applications.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Henako View Post
    You can learn quite a bit about a player just by looking at his UI. I'd pick the fellow with a nice, streamlined UI over the guy with a train wreck of useless information scattered all over the fucking place any day.
    I'd pick the better player, what their screen looks like makes no difference to me, I'll take whichever one doesn't stand in fire, even if that one has the default UI.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.

  6. #66
    I don't understand why people would not recruit people based on their UI. Taste is personal, what does it have to do with skill? I can have the most ugly, cluttered UI in your eyes and still do top dps, healing, tanking, awareness, or whatever else makes me the best raider. It's no wonder guilds have troubles finding new recruits...

    A good raidleader can determine enough from your Armory and raidlogs to give you a trial or not. And only in a trial will you see if someone is good enough for your team. What macro's, UI or rotation you use is needless information in an application.

  7. #67
    I guess it's not just the application forms but the whole mentality of raiding in general. Most people seem to treat Wow like a job, running a guild like a firm and I think that's where the problem lies.

    The truth is that even heroic raids require little more than "just some guys". Anyone can learn raid tactics, anyone can get gear, anyone can experience the fights and at the end of the day that is all you need. But this strange culture of pseudo skill and wannabe elitist attitude has been passed down from those few "top" guilds and been adopted by the majority and people have come to believe that it's impossible to raid without imitating them.

    You don't need addons, you don't need custom UIs, you don't need special keybinds, gaming mice, logs or simulations and you don't need to treat the game like a company... or a chore. All of that is optional customization, and none of that makes a player "good".

    I know of guilds that demand all of those things and never make it past normal modes, and I've been in guilds that didn't care about any of it and stormed through heroics -- that is why I see it as fluff, as meaningless information that has no bearing whatsoever on how good or bad a player may be. And to be honest, I don't want to raid with people who think so.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I've been searching for a new guild recently and today I came accross several seperate guilds with the same really odd questions in their application forms.

    They're asking:
    1) To list ALL macros I use... in full! (I have about 30 macros on my warlock, are they insane?)
    2) To submit an annotated screenshot of my "raiding interface" with detailed descriptions (wtf?)
    3) To detail my DPS rotation in multiple situations

    I don't get why they're asking for this stuff, it's completely meaningless and offers no real information. I have half a mind to write profanity in those sections instead.

    I haven't really had to apply to a guild before. In the 6 years i've been raiding I've always just joined guilds without needing any of this. Is this normal for application forms? It just sounds to me like these people are heavily deluded. Every guild I've seen using these kinds of questions have particulary poor progress and appear somewhat casual (or at least not at all "hardcore").

    I just don't get it, the only information you really need is:
    1) Do you have knowledge/experience?
    2) Do you have gear?
    3) Can you be online at this time?

    Anything more is just meaningless information, it's just fluff and serves no purpose. This kind of thing seriously puts me off even applying to guilds, the attitude just rubs me the wrong way.


    Do you think these guilds actually care about this stuff, or are just using a standard template intended for "top end" guilds and won't really bother reading those sections?
    Only read the first page so maybe someone else mentioned it but it seems like the simple answer is to weed out people who are too lazy to do it. You seem to be one of these people therefore they don't want you. If you can't spend 15 minutes doing this why should they believe you will spend 15 minutes reading up on your class or learning how to better yourself before raids? Clearly you seem to think that you're amazing and any guild should want to recruit you without you needing to fill out a silly application. They apparently think differently. It's their guild so they can do whatever they want. If you don't like it don't apply.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I've been searching for a new guild recently and today I came accross several seperate guilds with the same really odd questions in their application forms.

    They're asking:
    1) To list ALL macros I use... in full! (I have about 30 macros on my warlock, are they insane?)
    2) To submit an annotated screenshot of my "raiding interface" with detailed descriptions (wtf?)
    3) To detail my DPS rotation in multiple situations

    I don't get why they're asking for this stuff, it's completely meaningless and offers no real information. I have half a mind to write profanity in those sections instead.

    Do you think these guilds actually care about this stuff, or are just using a standard template intended for "top end" guilds and won't really bother reading those sections?
    Each guild has its own rules. To be honest, the questions do have some validity. Question one is asking how much is your game style rely on macros. It is like do you drive an automatic or a manual. I am actually surprises you have 30 macros.

    Screen shot of the UI is how cluttered is your UI. I have seen videos of some other UI where it was covered with all sort of add ons and displays that it was hard to see what was actually happening behind it all.

    DPS rotation is obvious. Can you maintain decent DPS as the encounter changes.

  10. #70
    You should fill out the form, and then make them fill out their own application, citing why they deserve you as a player.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  11. #71
    This is why I am happy to be a casual player. When you have to fill out an application and post a resume just to be accepted in a kid's game rated T for Teen, someone is taking their game way too serious. So, just as it is their choice not to select me for their guild, it is my choice not to "apply" just to hang out with friends and raid.

    When you want to be a pro, you have to deal with pros. Sadly, some pros are just elitists. Not my idea of fun. But, to each his own.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    This is why I am happy to be a casual player. When you have to fill out an application and post a resume just to be accepted in a kid's game rated T for Teen, someone is taking their game way too serious. So, just as it is their choice not to select me for their guild, it is my choice not to "apply" just to hang out with friends and raid.

    When you want to be a pro, you have to deal with pros. Sadly, some pros are just elitists. Not my idea of fun. But, to each his own.
    Well raiding with a guild means playing with other people. You don't want someone in the group who isn't pulling their weight and is wasting everyone else's time. Yeah it's just a game but nobody has fun wiping or playing with people who are extremely subpar.

    It's true really for any hobby. I play pick up basketball regularly and I make sure to only play with people of similar skill level. Now I don't need an application process for that since it's easy to watch people play, WoW works a little differently, but the concept is the same.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by FobManX View Post
    Well raiding with a guild means playing with other people. You don't want someone in the group who isn't pulling their weight and is wasting everyone else's time. Yeah it's just a game but nobody has fun wiping or playing with people who are extremely subpar.

    It's true really for any hobby. I play pick up basketball regularly and I make sure to only play with people of similar skill level. Now I don't need an application process for that since it's easy to watch people play, WoW works a little differently, but the concept is the same.
    I'm not disputing that people need to pull their own weight, nor would I dispute the analogy of "getting to know someone's playstyle". My point was simply, I have no desire to fill out an app and resume for a guild just because I want to play. And they, in turn, have every right to not let me join their guild. As a casual, I do not fit in their world, nor would they fit in mine. I simply tell people, if you want to be the best and raid hardcore with the elitists, you have to play by their rules. That means guild applications, essay questions, trial runs, showing up to all meetings, grinding dailies/heroics/LFR each day/week to get geared and earn/keep your spot. I play for fun, and don't mind wiping once in awhile with 24 casual friends. It's only a game, and I don't mind having fun my way while elitists have "fun" their way.

  14. #74
    The macro question is a bit silly but applications for top guilds are necessarily as it is impossible to trial everyone that is interested in joining your guild.

    Generally apps should have something like:
    World of Logs parses
    Computer specs / internet connection reliability etc.
    Can you maintain 100% attendance for our xyz raid times
    Raiding History / current progression
    Beyond that personal information such as age / job / why you are interested in joining the guild etc.

    A guild app really shouldn't take more than 5-10mins to fill out.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Jacob6875 <=== Check out my Youtube Channel !!

  15. #75
    Applications really are a great way to week out bad/lazy/troublemaking players. We once had someone (a girl) apply and mentioned SEVERAL times throughout the app that she was female, and was "legal", now if we didn't have an app and just brought her in there's no doubt in my mind she'd try to use her gender to get loot and a raid spot, and thus destroy the guild with female drama, which has happened many times in the past to other guilds

  16. #76
    There's nothing wrong with UI/macros questions. If you don't like being asked that, the chances are - that guild is not for you. There's plenty more to apply to. You can easily find a guild that would not ask you questions which you don't want to answer.
    Rincewind: Ah! We may, in fact, have reached the root of the problem. However it's a silly problem and so I am suddenly going to stop talking to you.

  17. #77
    Pit Lord Geminiwolf's Avatar
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    Do some guilds really still require you to fill out applications? Lol what is this, signing up for a job? It's amazing how serious some people take this game. Unless this guild is like some pro team that goes for MLG or something I find this whole guild application thing quite ridiculous. The guild I'm in clear raids new and old and I never had to fill out an application for them I just asked, got invited and I joined. Last time I checked, WoW was a computer game not a job.
    Last edited by Geminiwolf; 2013-04-17 at 09:53 PM.
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  18. #78
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminiwolf View Post
    Do some guilds really still require you to fill out applications?
    Bleeding edge ones do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geminiwolf View Post
    Lol what is this, signing up for a job?
    Yes, to some guilds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geminiwolf View Post
    The guild I'm in clear raids new and old and I never had to fill out an application for them I just asked, got invited and I joined. Last time I checked, WoW was a computer game not a job.
    I just joined a raiding guild (their second team) and all I had to do was like their site on Facebook. I've been there about 3 weeks and they're already considering me for the first team.
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  19. #79
    It's all a crapshoot, you don't know what you'll get.

  20. #80
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    None of them questions are irrelevant and can give the guild vital information regarding your playstyle and how much you min/max your dps. If it's a top guild as well, even moreso. If it's a low ranked guild then I can see what you mean to an extent.

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