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  1. #1

    so stuck between a monk or a shaman healer !

    ok so i have them both at lvl 90 i play a monk at the moment as a mistweaver i just do RBG's some 2's for cap and random BG's right now but looking to get serious in pvp

    ive started to get pretty good at my monk but the healing style just doesnt feel right i miss hard casting big heals etc !
    im not a skilled pvp player by any standards so was hoping for a bit of advice from a few of you that are

    what are the pros and cons of both and what makes one superior to the other

    thanks for the help guys much appreciated !

  2. #2
    Warchief Henkdejager's Avatar
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    Monk cannot be stunned, if you are in any form of stun wich will lose control of your char you wil be shrouded in mist and be un attackable for 3sec...if i am correct. This is one of the most awesome healing auras in the game and in my opinion is little to OP.

    As a shaman you got the best PvP healer in game, ( atleast prior 5.2 , no clue how they do in 5.2) You got your totems to assist you with alot of stuff, instead of watching CDS and using spells you have to time and watch your totems.

    Both are pretty good atm , most preff a shaman above a monk, but for 2s a monk healer is killing! Plus they can regen mana like a beast!
    Stuff

  3. #3
    pro for shaman is they are always in demand probably the best healer in the game even. If you want those big heals shaman is the way to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    pro for shaman is they are always in demand probably the best healer in the game even. If you want those big heals shaman is the way to go.
    Shaman is very reliant upon their team mates support, they also can be "tunneled" rather easily and have to hard cast a lot with is a big negative as of now.

    It really boils down to what one wants to do. For RBG and 3on3 Shaman is most likely the better alternative. Doing random stuff or 2on2 I'd rather pick a monk because of their better defense and mobility.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Shaman is very reliant upon their team mates support, they also can be "tunneled" rather easily and have to hard cast a lot with is a big negative as of now.

    It really boils down to what one wants to do. For RBG and 3on3 Shaman is most likely the better alternative. Doing random stuff or 2on2 I'd rather pick a monk because of their better defense and mobility.
    Thought I'd add my thoughts:

    Monk is a very different healer to get to grips with. In 2v2 they are brilliant as they have the ability to go balls to the wall offensive without much fear of getting gibbed. This is because we have so much defensive capability while being able to stay offensive. By this I mean we can provide brilliant pressure through stuns, blanket silences, cc and decent damage (hello fistweaving). All of this can be done while keeping our teammates up pretty easily.

    In 3s this is more of a problem. Monks are less likely to be able to escape cc. Other classes have immunities or ways to break crowd control, monks do not. This will change in 5.3, but until then it is ridiculously easy to chain cc on top of a monk until your teammates die. This currently means that you are best off playing with classes that can offheal or get you out (ret paladins / disc priests).

    In rbgs monks are probably the most sought after healer. Their output is unparalleled, and RoP adds a lot to team fights.

    TL;DR if you enjoy 2s and RBGs, stick with the monk, it is fantastic. If you want to dip your toes into serious 3s you will probably have a hard time escaping 30 seconds of cc.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Romleyboomer View Post
    ok so i have them both at lvl 90 i play a monk at the moment as a mistweaver i just do RBG's some 2's for cap and random BG's right now but looking to get serious in pvp

    ive started to get pretty good at my monk but the healing style just doesnt feel right i miss hard casting big heals etc !
    im not a skilled pvp player by any standards so was hoping for a bit of advice from a few of you that are

    what are the pros and cons of both and what makes one superior to the other

    thanks for the help guys much appreciated !
    Healmonk is better at manareg and survivability (you mostly don't go oom or die as monk) and shaman is much better at anti cc (shock, grounding, tremor, hard hitting heals between ccs). Since in the current game's state of just spam ccs and damage, anti cc is really important for a pvp healer, shaman is better overall.
    If you want to break it down into the different categories it's probably something like this:
    Random BG: Monk
    Rated BG: If you have any Shaman in your group Monk, if not Shaman
    2on2: If you play with a DK (or maybe Warrior) Monk, if not Shaman
    3on3: Shaman
    5on5: Shouldn't be too much of a difference.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    in 5.3 mw's are gettin extra trinket so it might become ALOT stronger.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    PvP, i would say definately go monk. I have all healer classes at 90, and between my shaman and monk...my monk wins hands down. They have AMAZING utility, heal like a boss. VERY hard to hold down, and roll/chi torpedo removes ALL movement impairing effects every time you roll, and I's rolling all over the goddamn place. One of the only way's to lock a monk down is to stun, any i LOL every time a rogue tries to open on my with CS, i see all of their abilities missing...then I roll away.

    and one more thing....RING OF PEACE...simply amazing. someone is being focused? NO PROB..RoP them and BAM, they arent dying anymore.

    Mana regen is crazy, especially if you glyph it (which is a must). Also TFT immune to silences and HUGE heal for those dire situations.

    All in all, Monk>Shaman atm. That will likely change when they nerf monks in 5.4. They are OP to get people to play them, but once the numbers go up for monk representation, they will likely be brought back in line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wootylicious View Post
    in 5.3 mw's are gettin extra trinket so it might become ALOT stronger.
    Source?

    Found It...and I am loving that change.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Nimble Brew now also removes horrify effects, and reduces the duration of horrify effects and fear, and is available to all Monk specializations (formerly only available for Brewmaster and Windwalker Monks).
    Last edited by Avada Kedavra; 2013-04-17 at 04:20 PM.

  9. #9
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rekkiem View Post
    Thought I'd add my thoughts:

    Monk is a very different healer to get to grips with. In 2v2 they are brilliant as they have the ability to go balls to the wall offensive without much fear of getting gibbed. This is because we have so much defensive capability while being able to stay offensive. By this I mean we can provide brilliant pressure through stuns, blanket silences, cc and decent damage (hello fistweaving). All of this can be done while keeping our teammates up pretty easily.
    I didn't think our damage was that decent? It's not like we get a damage increase from PvP Power. I use Xuen in 2s, that's okay.
    I heal in the Arena
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    PvP, i would say definately go monk. I have all healer classes at 90, and between my shaman and monk...my monk wins hands down. They have AMAZING utility, heal like a boss. VERY hard to hold down, and roll/chi torpedo removes ALL movement impairing effects every time you roll, and I's rolling all over the goddamn place. One of the only way's to lock a monk down is to stun, any i LOL every time a rogue tries to open on my with CS, i see all of their abilities missing...then I roll away.

    and one more thing....RING OF PEACE...simply amazing. someone is being focused? NO PROB..RoP them and BAM, they arent dying anymore.

    Mana regen is crazy, especially if you glyph it (which is a must). Also TFT immune to silences and HUGE heal for those dire situations.

    All in all, Monk>Shaman atm. That will likely change when they nerf monks in 5.4. They are OP to get people to play them, but once the numbers go up for monk representation, they will likely be brought back in line.
    If you talk about something and you only talk about the advantages it is going to sound good every time no matter how good it is objectively. You have to talk about the advantages AND disadvantages.
    While it is true that healmonks excel in many areas (survivability, manareg, healing output, damage output, mobility) and in its current state probably would have been OP in like 80% of all seasons prior to MoP, it doesn't change the fact that healmonks have one major weakness that gets totally exploited in MoP: lack of anti cc. MoP PvP is just spam as many ccs and damage as you can and whichever team runs out of defensive cds first loses. Because of this healmonks are not as strong as they appear to be. What's the point of having supreme survivability/manareg/healing and dmg output/mobility, if you still loose, because you are continuously stuck in cc chains.
    In 5.3 this could change though. If the ptr changes stay as they are and healmonks get nimble brew as an anti cc and even an improved version of ring of peace, they probably are going to be overpowered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima View Post
    I didn't think our damage was that decent? It's not like we get a damage increase from PvP Power. I use Xuen in 2s, that's okay.
    MW has the highest damage output of all healers BY FAR. Fully geared my CJL ticks crit for 30-35k every ~0,9 seconds on high resilience targets. I wouldn't use Xuen though, not even in 2s, Chi Torpedo is too good and you do enough damage without Xuen.

  11. #11
    Make sure to play Undead Monk, with trinket, and nimble brew, it will be able to compete with shaman's even in threes. However I am not sure if any healer will ever bring something as good as tremor into equation, even in rbg without tremor it's rather lacking.

    People should know that 5.3 Ring of Peace DIMINISHES, so it's hardly imporved, anyway it will be still good, espcially in 2s.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by koaxialus View Post
    People should know that 5.3 Ring of Peace DIMINISHES, so it's hardly imporved, anyway it will be still good, espcially in 2s.
    The ptr version is better than the current one because you can use it efficiently against all classes not only melee, diminishing or not. If you don't call that improved I don't know what you ever could.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    If you talk about something and you only talk about the advantages it is going to sound good every time no matter how good it is objectively. You have to talk about the advantages AND disadvantages.
    While it is true that healmonks excel in many areas (survivability, manareg, healing output, damage output, mobility) and in its current state probably would have been OP in like 80% of all seasons prior to MoP, it doesn't change the fact that healmonks have one major weakness that gets totally exploited in MoP: lack of anti cc. MoP PvP is just spam as many ccs and damage as you can and whichever team runs out of defensive cds first loses. Because of this healmonks are not as strong as they appear to be. What's the point of having supreme survivability/manareg/healing and dmg output/mobility, if you still loose, because you are continuously stuck in cc chains.
    In 5.3 this could change though. If the ptr changes stay as they are and healmonks get nimble brew as an anti cc and even an improved version of ring of peace, they probably are going to be overpowered.



    MW has the highest damage output of all healers BY FAR. Fully geared my CJL ticks crit for 30-35k every ~0,9 seconds on high resilience targets. I wouldn't use Xuen though, not even in 2s, Chi Torpedo is too good and you do enough damage without Xuen.
    Then in my reply i should just write a guide then? Cause thats what it would turn into if I included all the information you want. And monks can counter CC pretty well. We have dematerialize (which takes care of stuns) And soon (5.3) MW will have Nimble Brew which will take care of Fear/horror effects. Not to mention 2 disarms, a silence/interupt, Diffuse Magic (which also reflects spells), Zen Meditation (against casters). You name it and a monk can get out of it. Shaman as half the toolkit as a monk. Yes I have both (i have all healers at 90, 8 90's total) so i am familiar with each classes gameplay, and a monk (if played correctly) can/will/should be out any rsham.

    PS: I havent even mentioned Revival or life-cocoon.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    Then in my reply i should just write a guide then? Cause thats what it would turn into if I included all the information you want.
    No, as i said, if someone asks you how class X is and you just tell them about all the advantages it's not very informative. Any class would seem to be the best if you only list the advantages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    And monks can counter CC pretty well. We have dematerialize (which takes care of stuns) And soon (5.3) MW will have Nimble Brew which will take care of Fear/horror effects. Not to mention 2 disarms, a silence/interupt, Diffuse Magic (which also reflects spells), Zen Meditation (against casters). You name it and a monk can get out of it.
    Sorry, but at this point I even have to ask if you play a monk yourself, because what you write isn't just a bit wrong, it's like as wrong as it gets. Dematerialize doesn't counter stuns used as a cc. It doesn't reduce the stun, it just makes you invulnerable for a short period of time after a stun which is good for your survivability but doesn't do anything as regard to cc.
    Nimble Brew would be the first anti cc for a monk, but it's not yet in the game.
    Ring of Peace, disarm and your melee interrupt are not usable while you are cced, so they are no anti cc tools.
    Diffuse magic only reflects debuffs on you and can only be used while you are NOT cced, so that's no anti cc tool as well.
    Zen Meditation isn't an anti cc as well.
    "You name it and a monk can get out of it"? You can't get out of anything except for using a insignia/human racial or using will of the forsaken as undead. So I have to ask again: Do you even play a healmonk?


    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    Shaman as half the toolkit as a monk. Yes I have both (i have all healers at 90, 8 90's total) so i am familiar with each classes gameplay, and a monk (if played correctly) can/will/should be out any rsham.
    In RBG you could at least argue if a healmonk is better than a resto shaman (even though most people will tell you that a shaman is better due to tremor, grounding, shock etc.), but especially in 3on3 arena (which many people consider the most important bracket) a shaman is flat out better than a healmonk and its not even close. You are free to go over to the armory and look at whatever battlegroup you like and compare where resto shamans and healmonks are as regard to rating.

  15. #15
    High Overlord Hadoouken's Avatar
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    Well i like Monks way better for their healing styles....

    BUT if you are considering serious arena rating its the Shamman all the way... they can help a lot with their ccs and will finally end up in a kill.

    Purgeeeeeeeeee.

    If you end up playing with the Monk...make sure to get a skilled DK partner

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    No, as i said, if someone asks you how class X is and you just tell them about all the advantages it's not very informative. Any class would seem to be the best if you only list the advantages.


    Sorry, but at this point I even have to ask if you play a monk yourself, because what you write isn't just a bit wrong, it's like as wrong as it gets. Dematerialize doesn't counter stuns used as a cc. It doesn't reduce the stun, it just makes you invulnerable for a short period of time after a stun which is good for your survivability but doesn't do anything as regard to cc.
    Nimble Brew would be the first anti cc for a monk, but it's not yet in the game.
    Ring of Peace, disarm and your melee interrupt are not usable while you are cced, so they are no anti cc tools.
    Diffuse magic only reflects debuffs on you and can only be used while you are NOT cced, so that's no anti cc tool as well.
    Zen Meditation isn't an anti cc as well.
    "You name it and a monk can get out of it"? You can't get out of anything except for using a insignia/human racial or using will of the forsaken as undead. So I have to ask again: Do you even play a healmonk?



    In RBG you could at least argue if a healmonk is better than a resto shaman (even though most people will tell you that a shaman is better due to tremor, grounding, shock etc.), but especially in 3on3 arena (which many people consider the most important bracket) a shaman is flat out better than a healmonk and its not even close. You are free to go over to the armory and look at whatever battlegroup you like and compare where resto shamans and healmonks are as regard to rating.
    Really? Because we have a difference in opinion means i dont play a monk? Means im wrong? Good rebutle. Also because im confident in my abilities to deal with CC means i dont know how to play? Thats a new one.

    It sounds like you are the one with the issues dealing with the different aspects of CC. You can point out the dis-advantages till hell freezes over, but if you are having all the issues you were talking about then thats a L2P issue because not every single monk has the catastrophic problems you seem to be having.

    IN MY OPINION I believe Monks > Rsham -

    PS: "You must not play classX Because ur bad" is a horrible way to counter a constructive discussion.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 10:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Terresa View Post
    Well i like Monks way better for their healing styles....

    BUT if you are considering serious arena rating its the Shamman all the way... they can help a lot with their ccs and will finally end up in a kill.

    Purgeeeeeeeeee.

    If you end up playing with the Monk...make sure to get a skilled DK partner
    your signature is surprisingly creepy.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    Really? Because we have a difference in opinion means i dont play a monk? Means im wrong? Good rebutle. Also because im confident in my abilities to deal with CC means i dont know how to play? Thats a new one.

    It sounds like you are the one with the issues dealing with the different aspects of CC. You can point out the dis-advantages till hell freezes over, but if you are having all the issues you were talking about then thats a L2P issue because not every single monk has the catastrophic problems you seem to be having.

    IN MY I believe Monks > Rsham -

    PS: "You must not play classX Because ur bad" is a horrible way to counter a constructive discussion.[COLOR="red"]
    It has nothing to do with opinion that's what you don't get. As i said you can have a different opinion e.g. as regard to who is better at RBG. But the FACT that a healmonk has no anti cc is not an OPINION, it is a FACT. So if you say dematerialize is an anti cc (and all the other stuff regarding anti cc), it is just WRONG, because that is a FACT. A spell can either be used as an anti cc or it can not, there is no way inbetween, so it has nothing to do with opinion.
    Additionally I'm doing quite good with healmonk actually. I'm 24xx lr RBG, 21xx lr 2on2 and 22xx mmr 3on3 with healmonk. Considering the fact, that you don't even know what an anti cc is or how your spells work I'd be surprised if you would be as low as 15xx in anything.
    I don't have any problem with anyone saying, dude healmonk is really fun to play, or it's really good in RBG or it's really good 2on2 with DK or whatever. But flat out lying with statements like "You name it and a monk can get out of it" as regard to anti cc is just stupid. The only reason why I comment on it at all is because there are new or inexperienced players around who don't know such things and could believe things that are FACTUALLY WRONG.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    The ptr version is better than the current one because you can use it efficiently against all classes not only melee, diminishing or not. If you don't call that improved I don't know what you ever could.
    I would call it improved if it silenced immediately, and didn't diminish anymore. You seem to have everything figured out in this topic, but I generally agree with everything. But ring of peace did counter casters before, they usually just ran out, which essentially disabled them from play for 2 sec or so, if you placed it correctly even more if you were smart. Now it will do 3 sec silence immediately, which is nice, but if he cast in there again it's going to be diminished, and after he gets out, you could possibly counterspell him full, now it's going to be 1/3rd. So it's debatable whether it's better or not. Against melee it's definitely big nerf.

  19. #19
    Monks are hard to kill and have better healing output if not sitting cc and allowed to free cast. In every other way a shaman is superior.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pipostylor View Post
    It has nothing to do with opinion that's what you don't get. As i said you can have a different opinion e.g. as regard to who is better at RBG. But the FACT that a healmonk has no anti cc is not an OPINION, it is a FACT. So if you say dematerialize is an anti cc (and all the other stuff regarding anti cc), it is just WRONG, because that is a FACT. A spell can either be used as an anti cc or it can not, there is no way inbetween, so it has nothing to do with opinion.
    Additionally I'm doing quite good with healmonk actually. I'm 24xx lr RBG, 21xx lr 2on2 and 22xx mmr 3on3 with healmonk. Considering the fact, that you don't even know what an anti cc is or how your spells work I'd be surprised if you would be as low as 15xx in anything.
    I don't have any problem with anyone saying, dude healmonk is really fun to play, or it's really good in RBG or it's really good 2on2 with DK or whatever. But flat out lying with statements like "You name it and a monk can get out of it" as regard to anti cc is just stupid. The only reason why I comment on it at all is because there are new or inexperienced players around who don't know such things and could believe things that are FACTUALLY WRONG.
    I was waiting for you to throw rating around. I was hoping that this discussion wouldn't succumb to that but behold, here we are. You keep say "anti-CC", CC is CC is CC. With all the problems you say that monks have with CC, you seem to have gotten a high rating. SOOO THAT SUPPORTS WHAT IM SAYING. Regardless, monks can perform at the same level. The reason to to bring a monk is purely based on preference and comp.

    You make it sound like monks are crippled in the corner not able to do anything. You are wrong, proof your fantastic arena rating. You do not seem to realize that we can agree to disagree. If it came down to having 1 spot left, and there was a equally geared monk vs shaman, I would choose the monk. before you attack that, again that is a opinion, no right or wrong.

    Since you seem to be hung up on my statement "You name it and a monk can get out of it" Ill rephrase it, hopefully to your satisfaction. Monks can deal with CC equally if not better than most of the other healers. If you find something wrong with that, then you are a elitistjerk that is arguing for the sake of arguing, and im ashamed to have participated.

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