1. #1

    [Ret] Waistplate of Overwhelming Assault ( Heroic ) vs Swordhook Slingbelt

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=86955 vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=95083

    Character link in signature. Thanks in advance.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Floross/simple

    "...and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

  2. #2
    Swordhook Slingbelt wins out by a significant margin.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Serani View Post
    Swordhook Slingbelt wins out by a significant margin.
    I do appreciate your help but could you show me the math behind your reasoning ?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Floross/simple

    "...and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

  4. #4
    High Overlord Astrobandaid's Avatar
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    200 strength. can still reforge into haste

    Playing since '04

  5. #5
    Still need the math behind it all, I think you're too quick to judge how much haste you lose ( 1 gem socket and the socket bonus is haste on the waistplate ).
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Floross/simple

    "...and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

  6. #6
    The difference you're getting is 653 haste + either a 320 haste game, or 160 haste + 160 hit with a 120 haste socket bonus, depending on if you need the hit, let's assume you don't due to the gross amounts of hit on T15 gear.

    653+320 = 973 haste gained from Waistplate (difference between extra socket + natural haste on belt)
    (note: all of these weights are going from standard stat weights, I have not simmed your char, if you wish to do this, go for it, I'm just showing the napkin maths)
    973 haste x 1.93 = 1877.89 stat weight.
    1877.89 - (212 str x 3.52)746.24 = 1131.65
    1131.65 - (296 mastery ~included socket bonus~ x 1.58)467.68 = 663.97
    663.97 - (674 crit x 1.46)984.04 = -320.07

    That's without including reforging the crit to haste, which would make it even larger of an upgrade.

    Hopefully you can understand that it was napkin math, so there may be small margins of error, but you're basically looking at another 320 worth of stat weights for the swap.

  7. #7
    Even if it's a gain, I wouldn't waste my valor on this. Jin'rokh is the first boss, you'll eventually get this treasure of a 535/541 belt he gives.

    You would be better off buying items for off-spec before 5.3 hits live and you'll need your valor points to upgrade your main spec.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Even if it's a gain, I wouldn't waste my valor on this. Jin'rokh is the first boss, you'll eventually get this treasure of a 535/541 belt he gives.

    You would be better off buying items for off-spec before 5.3 hits live and you'll need your valor points to upgrade your main spec.
    That's under the assumption that you use your off spec at all, and also, you're making the mistake of thinking an item WILL drop at some point.

    There's almost nothing worth spending valor on currently for ret, so why not use your valor now before you're stuck capping at 3k for no reason.

  9. #9
    Between assuming you'll need your off-spec or not and assuming a loot will drop or assuming he is 3k capped... What is your point exactly?

    Of course if he is capped and has no use for an off-spec item he should buy it, my post merely stated that it is a last resort of an upgrade since itemisation is really poor on this one. Geee don't think people here have no common sense. He asked for opinions to make a self-well-thought decision on his own, no one here is saying "do this or you are a moron" -_- .

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Serani View Post
    The difference you're getting is 653 haste + either a 320 haste game, or 160 haste + 160 hit with a 120 haste socket bonus, depending on if you need the hit, let's assume you don't due to the gross amounts of hit on T15 gear.

    653+320 = 973 haste gained from Waistplate (difference between extra socket + natural haste on belt)
    (note: all of these weights are going from standard stat weights, I have not simmed your char, if you wish to do this, go for it, I'm just showing the napkin maths)
    973 haste x 1.93 = 1877.89 stat weight.
    1877.89 - (212 str x 3.52)746.24 = 1131.65
    1131.65 - (296 mastery ~included socket bonus~ x 1.58)467.68 = 663.97
    663.97 - (674 crit x 1.46)984.04 = -320.07

    That's without including reforging the crit to haste, which would make it even larger of an upgrade.

    Hopefully you can understand that it was napkin math, so there may be small margins of error, but you're basically looking at another 320 worth of stat weights for the swap.
    Thank you for going through the effort , I used a similar method with including the reforging crit to haste but according to simcraft my haste value was higher. It really is pretty close depending on stat weights. Thanks again. I dumped the VP on a prot neck.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Floross/simple

    "...and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

  11. #11
    I don't understand why you'd even look at that belt, you lose an entire socket and the itemization is god awful.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Bormes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    I don't understand why you'd even look at that belt, you lose an entire socket and the itemization is god awful.
    To answer your question, overall stat increase due to higher ilvl can outweigh a lower ilvl item with better itemization. Whether that is the case here is up for debate, but it is definitely at least discussion worthy.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Floross View Post
    Thank you for going through the effort , I used a similar method with including the reforging crit to haste but according to simcraft my haste value was higher. It really is pretty close depending on stat weights. Thanks again. I dumped the VP on a prot neck.
    I hope your Prot Neck was the haste/mastery one.

    Otherwise, go try to sell it back. Avoidance is shit for prot; we use Ret gear. In fact, the VP neck and cape are BIS for Prot throughout the tier (well, til Wrathion capes), and I'm using the HC JinRohk belt, HC JiKun feather and HC Spark off Horridon among other items in my main (prot) set. Hell, even the shoulders off HC Tortos (with crit!) are better than anything else in this tier for Prot (shoutout to HC tier shoulders if you want the 2pc, but meh).
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  14. #14
    TBH I would just skip it, spend valor on offspec pieces. You could upgrade your existing belt cheaper in 5.4. Moreover, by that time you'll probably have the far superior one off Jin'rokh anyway.

    Well, maybe. I've only seen the LFR one so far, but Jin has been pretty good to me, got an item from him every week for the past three weeks. OfC two of them were for healing, but woooo Strength polearm! Speaking of which, if you were really concerned about such a trivial stat difference, shouldn't you have put an Eye on Bo-Ris already? :P
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bormes View Post
    To answer your question, overall stat increase due to higher ilvl can outweigh a lower ilvl item with better itemization. Whether that is the case here is up for debate, but it is definitely at least discussion worthy.
    Except for that fact that crit is complete shit for ret, and isn't worth it if you do the math for the item.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  16. #16
    Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, while comparing just 2 items for one slot (and this case only), I value crit as 0. I mean, by changing the belt you'd gain 350 crit, 0.5% ? Is this really considered a dps gain for ONE item in the RNG ocean? Whereas you'd lose haste which is a solid and constant upgrade, and IS a dps loss, because whatever RNG you may have, the reduced CDs and more autoattacks are concrete gains.

  17. #17
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Crit is pretty bad.... meanwhile I'm getting 24% hand of light damage with my insane feather procs and holy tvs. Mastery..... it keeps climbing that totem pole with haste...

    Can only imagine what an extra +10k weapon damage will do with a 549 weapon. Hopefully that isn't much longer 522's stink.

    Was at 24% haste last tier. Can stay at that number and go to 75% mastery. Keeps looking like something I really wanna try when i get wpn, Hopefully Bo-ris.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-04-19 at 01:04 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Crit is pretty bad.... meanwhile I'm getting 24% hand of light damage with my insane feather procs and holy tvs. Mastery..... it keeps climbing that totem pole with haste...

    Can only imagine what an extra +10k weapon damage will do with a 549 weapon. Hopefully that isn't much longer 522's stink.
    Yup. Mastery is getting better and better. Was looking over some Chinese ret logs since they have much higher ilevel, it's comparable to what we'll have in BiS. Guy had 35% haste and 41% mastery UNBUFFED. Heroic TF random boss loot polearm. His logs were insanity. Hand of Light doing ridiculous numbers. Excited for sure.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  19. #19
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    uhhhhh Revvo I have 35% haste and 42% mastery now.

    Oh wait unbuffed dats 10% more mastery dafuq

    Did i mentino we have 8 541 str 1hs and 0 total 2hs?
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-04-19 at 01:10 PM.

  20. #20
    Yup. Also 20k+ strength and his wep had 30k top end. Mmmmm

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

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