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  1. #61
    Retribution Aura: while stunned, feared, and disoriented you return 50% damage taken divided among attackers and enemies within 8-10yds. Any direct silencing effect used against the paladin will cause 50% of the effect against the caster on a 1 min cooldown.

    The ability is passive and works automatically. I'm debating having the damage reduced based on number of targets, 25% for one and up to 75% for 5+.
    Welcome to New Blizzard where everything ages backwards, dead servers are left gasping for breath, homogenization is disguised as uniqueness, leveling mirrors the progression of travel in the last 150 years, and gold is just a nuisance.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Greelix View Post
    Retribution Aura: while stunned, feared, and disoriented you return 50% damage taken divided among attackers and enemies within 8-10yds. Any direct silencing effect used against the paladin will cause 50% of the effect against the caster on a 1 min cooldown.

    The ability is passive and works automatically. I'm debating having the damage reduced based on number of targets, 25% for one and up to 75% for 5+.
    I like the concept of this. It would help a bit with our main issue of being trained and it fits the theme of "Retribution".

    I really don't understand why Blizzard isn't addressing our survivability at all in 5.3. We are like moving punching bags at the moment.

  3. #63
    Pandaren Monk Velshin's Avatar
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    To this day I just wonder why Ret is one of the only specs that make Blizz taking months and months until they notice that something indeed is wrong with the spec?

    I mean this kind of pattern is the same durning Cataclysm expansion in the ptr of tier 11 content a lot of veteran ret players told Blizzard million times that the spec is really weak and has a lot of flaws....then months and months..until patch 4.6 which is mid of tier 11 content we became ok (talking about pve here).

    Now in pre MoP ptr servers again...the veterans ret players told Blizz that the spec is not good for some serious hardcore heroic raiding or challenge mode (if you want gold medal)....again deaf ears from Blizz until months and months of the expansion....then they realize by saying "oh hey there is indeed something wrong with the spec."


    come on ! really? we have been saying that for months and months now you noticed?

    It's always been like that for the ret spec and to be honest I just don't know why...

  4. #64
    Ret only: divine protection reduces all damage and is now usable while stunned. Same cooldown.

    Level 15: all paladins move 15% faster

    Speed of light: now also heals 10-20% hp or halves non snare & root abilities by 50%

    Pursuit of justice: no longer passively increases movement speed but after using all holy power movement reduction effects can only reduce you to 90-100% speed

    Long arm of the law: in addition, while in affect if rooted, your next hand of freedom in 30 sec is undispellable. Or possibly suppresses roots and snares for 6 sec every 18 reduced by haste.

    Making changes and coming up with ideas are easy I just wish I had a ptr to test them.
    Last edited by Greelix; 2013-04-29 at 02:22 AM.
    Welcome to New Blizzard where everything ages backwards, dead servers are left gasping for breath, homogenization is disguised as uniqueness, leveling mirrors the progression of travel in the last 150 years, and gold is just a nuisance.

  5. #65
    I think divine protection should be a protection spec spell only. Where as ret needs a passive damage reduction similar to hunter boomkin, no gimmick reductions tied into using Glyphs or damaging abilities (with a short duration).

    bandaid fix until ret gets its passive % reduction : With DiProt on a 1 min. cd makes it ideal to add a passive stun,fear break+immunity for half its duration time
    (which is 5 sec)

    It's also really annoying to have played the game for 7 years with 15% movement speed (PoJ) for it now to req a talent, Having to retalent to PoJ every time i step into a city just to move as fast as i once did is equally painful.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    To this day I just wonder why Ret is one of the only specs that make Blizz taking months and months until they notice that something indeed is wrong with the spec?

    I mean this kind of pattern is the same durning Cataclysm expansion in the ptr of tier 11 content a lot of veteran ret players told Blizzard million times that the spec is really weak and has a lot of flaws....then months and months..until patch 4.6 which is mid of tier 11 content we became ok (talking about pve here).

    Now in pre MoP ptr servers again...the veterans ret players told Blizz that the spec is not good for some serious hardcore heroic raiding or challenge mode (if you want gold medal)....again deaf ears from Blizz until months and months of the expansion....then they realize by saying "oh hey there is indeed something wrong with the spec."


    come on ! really? we have been saying that for months and months now you noticed?

    It's always been like that for the ret spec and to be honest I just don't know why...
    Its because of the huge spectrum of Ret Players playing the game, who is really determined as veteran players who know what to do, and even then why is their word gospel?

    They need to accomodate enough for the bad players who don't get that much dps out of the spec, and those who minmax the spec as much as they can to get the most out of it. Changing things with the spec would affect a huge amount of players.

    Ret is a bad spec to bring to RBGs, but some still get taken and get high rating, Ret might not be considered that great in Arena but Vanguards has had rank 1 a few times.

  7. #67
    The Patient Cronosmash's Avatar
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    NYC said it all:

    Ret doesn't fit anywhere in Rbg's because its "toolbox" is the same as Holy.
    Same problem for Pala Prot as FC on RBGs.

    Fix exclusive specs habilities = fix the spec. Some things must be removed from Ret since is really only nice for Holy and some exclusive RBG utility Ret only thing must come in.

    I'd say a knockback/grip/area utility that rules RBG nowdays.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  8. #68
    Having had a paladin since classic I have noticed how ret has become increasingly easier to kill while locked down. Tbh it has to do with the huge amount of cc added since tbc. Not only that, paladins had quite the amount of dispel protection through sheer amount of dispellable buffs available to protect things such as blessing of freedom. There were less stuns and interrupts so it was quite possible to heal when necessary, and one could heal to full in bubble while still having time to reposition and not run oom. Actually I think my original draw to the class was its cc resistance.

    Wow, times sure have changed.
    Last edited by Greelix; 2013-04-29 at 08:57 PM. Reason: Last comment
    Welcome to New Blizzard where everything ages backwards, dead servers are left gasping for breath, homogenization is disguised as uniqueness, leveling mirrors the progression of travel in the last 150 years, and gold is just a nuisance.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    Its because of the huge spectrum of Ret Players playing the game, who is really determined as veteran players who know what to do, and even then why is their word gospel?

    They need to accomodate enough for the bad players who don't get that much dps out of the spec, and those who minmax the spec as much as they can to get the most out of it. Changing things with the spec would affect a huge amount of players.

    Ret is a bad spec to bring to RBGs, but some still get taken and get high rating, Ret might not be considered that great in Arena but Vanguards has had rank 1 a few times.
    rets get brought to rbgs when they are friends with the people running them.

    part of why vanguards is successful is that he has access to other rank 1 capable players, and he himself is a superlative player. he gets rank 1 because hes vanguards, not because ret is any good. he's already proven that he can pick up any spec and excel on it.

    ret is functional, which is a step up from where it has been in the past, but its still a chronically underperforming spec in pvp and pve. for what a popular spec it is, indeed its probably the most popular of all the hybrid dps, i'm amazed that devs continue to give it as little attention as they do.

    there were people who got gladiator in bc when ret was hands down non functional (ahemslaytonahem) because they were brilliant players playing with other brilliant players, NOT because ret was any good.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    rets get brought to rbgs when they are friends with the people running them.

    part of why vanguards is successful is that he has access to other rank 1 capable players, and he himself is a superlative player. he gets rank 1 because hes vanguards, not because ret is any good. he's already proven that he can pick up any spec and excel on it.

    ret is functional, which is a step up from where it has been in the past, but its still a chronically underperforming spec in pvp and pve. for what a popular spec it is, indeed its probably the most popular of all the hybrid dps, i'm amazed that devs continue to give it as little attention as they do.

    there were people who got gladiator in bc when ret was hands down non functional (ahemslaytonahem) because they were brilliant players playing with other brilliant players, NOT because ret was any good.
    You missed my point.
    Ret doesn't see many changes because it is played by so many people, and changes that change the way Ret works could potentially (like Holinka says) have huge impacts on the game. The changes that could be made would also have a huge affect on a large amount of the player base and I'm sure that not all would be happy with said changes.

    There will always be some people who do not like the changes made to anything, and because Ret is such a widely played spec, I assume Blizz doesn't want to risk upsetting a large amount of players, especially if the changes made are thought up by any self proclaimed veterans of the spec. For all we know that Vet could have no clue whats going on with the spec, or have no clue of the direct and indirect impacts of any changes they think should be made to the spec.

    Pointing out Vanguards and Ret's places in RBGs were examples that even though everyone shouts that its impossible for Ret to get taken to RBGs and that Ret is poor, Ret still manages in some cases. Imo Ret "working" in some cases is much better than Ret "working" in all cases, sets players apart and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Also, I should've put a "inb4 Vanguards has rank 1 friends" somewhere in my first post, as thats what every Ret has jumped too and will always jump to when Vanguards is mentioned.

    I can also almost guarantee that not every single Ret playing an RBG ever is friends with the person who set them up.

  11. #71
    I can't stand this anymore. Why is it so goddam hard to just make rets as strong as other melee classes. It is killing me doing PvP, I am Ret by heart....but I'm so discouraged that it hurts...So it is a longer process and things will have to gradually be changed. But I don't see anything being changed, atleast try and keep us updated and give us some hope that PvP'ing as ret isn't completely and utterly useless.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Femide View Post
    I can't stand this anymore. Why is it so goddam hard to just make rets as strong as other melee classes. It is killing me doing PvP, I am Ret by heart....but I'm so discouraged that it hurts...So it is a longer process and things will have to gradually be changed. But I don't see anything being changed, atleast try and keep us updated and give us some hope that PvP'ing as ret isn't completely and utterly useless.
    PvP Power affects hybrid healing in 5.3, Ret's get a passive buff to 2h damage in 5.3. Ret will be very playable in 5.3, its quite playable now to be honest and no where near as dire as you make it out to be.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    PvP Power affects hybrid healing in 5.3, Ret's get a passive buff to 2h damage in 5.3. Ret will be very playable in 5.3, its quite playable now to be honest and no where near as dire as you make it out to be.
    Yes..so I've read. We will see.

    Edt: I believe its more than some extra damage that will make Rets "viable"...I can compete with dmg atm, its the CC, the dispells, everything..we are just countered so hard by nearly every class.
    Last edited by Femide; 2013-04-29 at 11:10 PM.

  14. #74
    Epic! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    Also, I should've put a "inb4 Vanguards has rank 1 friends" somewhere in my first post, as thats what every Ret has jumped too and will always jump to when Vanguards is mentioned.
    Your fault of mentioning a enhancement shaman player in a ret post...

    See what I did there ?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    You missed my point.
    Ret doesn't see many changes because it is played by so many people, and changes that change the way Ret works could potentially (like Holinka says) have huge impacts on the game. The changes that could be made would also have a huge affect on a large amount of the player base and I'm sure that not all would be happy with said changes.

    There will always be some people who do not like the changes made to anything, and because Ret is such a widely played spec, I assume Blizz doesn't want to risk upsetting a large amount of players, especially if the changes made are thought up by any self proclaimed veterans of the spec. For all we know that Vet could have no clue whats going on with the spec, or have no clue of the direct and indirect impacts of any changes they think should be made to the spec.

    Pointing out Vanguards and Ret's places in RBGs were examples that even though everyone shouts that its impossible for Ret to get taken to RBGs and that Ret is poor, Ret still manages in some cases. Imo Ret "working" in some cases is much better than Ret "working" in all cases, sets players apart and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Also, I should've put a "inb4 Vanguards has rank 1 friends" somewhere in my first post, as thats what every Ret has jumped too and will always jump to when Vanguards is mentioned.

    I can also almost guarantee that not every single Ret playing an RBG ever is friends with the person who set them up.
    vanguards gets taken to rbgs because hes friends with people who run rbgs, on his 'star power' if you will. and you can believe that there are rets who were taken for reasons other than their friendships with rbg leaders all you want, they don't exist, at least not above 1.7k. hofflerand can't get into rbgs despite arguably being a better ret than vanguards because no one remembers who he is, he doesn't have that same name recognition.

    there is still a lot of prejudice against ret from vanilla, and theres still the perception that paladins are not allowed to have a decent damage dealing spec for pvp because holy is so exceptionally strong, shamans are in much the same position, why druids are exempt from this i'll never know.

    a vet player probably has a better idea of what is going on in the spec then any of the devs simply by virtue of playing it so long. ret has been underperforming for a very long time, it NEEDs something thats going to have a 'huge effect on the game'
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    Also, I should've put a "inb4 Vanguards has rank 1 friends" somewhere in my first post, as thats what every Ret has jumped too and will always jump to when Vanguards is mentioned.
    The sky is blue, guys. Better not mention it because Valex will get vewy angwy. We better say it's green to please his weird opposition to repeated truths.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    I can also almost guarantee that not every single Ret playing an RBG ever is friends with the person who set them up.
    Prove that even 1 Ret above 2200 rating in RBGs isn't a special case and then you may have an argument.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Prove that even 1 Ret above 2200 rating in RBGs isn't a special case and then you may have an argument.
    This ^^ If you look on the EU RBG ladder, you will find mostly ret Paladins, who got their rating by either buying it (Which happens alot on Kazzak, as I know somebody who made 2500 bucks during a summer) or through Russian win trading (or they actually RBG as holy or even FCs, the latter being very rare).

  18. #78
    and i've said this before, i would be ok with ret being weak in rbgs if ret was strong in arena. but its not. it's not even very strong solo because it can't benefit from it's own utility.

    so basically ret only works when it's playing cleave comps in 3s. thats pretty damn boring.

    ret need something to differentiate it from holy. i've said this before, the dispel on sac was a good change, but it wasn't the right change and it wasn't enough of a change.

    move the dispel to salv and allow ret to benefit from their own magic dispel.
    give ret it's stun break on freedom back, ret is easily cced and needs defenses against stuns which shut down all of it's survivability tools.
    make BoP impart full immunity or allow ret's bop's to continue to use melee abilities.
    allow divine protection and clemency to be usable while silenced.

    these are all minor things that would not affect pve in major ways, and would go a long way to improve ret's value as a spec and it's surivability.

    let ret do things with it's hand spells that holy can't, everything that ret had that was unique to them has either been taken away (last word) given to holy (repentance) or nerfed completely to the ground (burst)
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  19. #79
    Anyone who played this spec long enough knows that ret is destined to be mediocre by design. They want us to be in this spot and trust me the world will first end before we will see a ret pulling the same damage as a rogue / mage / lock w/t getting insta-nerfed. This is how it is.

    What sucks is when they buff their utility on top of their damage. Its just sad.

    At least some times they make one of the two other specs strong. This time around is prot which is ultra fun.

  20. #80
    With Ret healing now affected by this change it's the perfect opportunity to get ret off the heal oriented titty its been crippled by and base the spec around more damage.

    Similar to what Capt. Pinkycrawler stated in a recent blue, Ret should be based around Damage 1st like Arthas + Uther.

    Currently Live, 20 seconds every 2 minutes and flat lining in between the other 90% of the time can't possibly be where Capt. wants the spec to be if he's making comparisons to Arthas and Uther. Even with the SoL 15% buff on ptr, 90% of the time you're performing sub level 90 damage w/ AW on cd

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