Worried with the lack of content, and Rift's future.

[Lathais]

I honestly think Rift would be better with a brand new marketing launch with a Tera F2P model. A cash shop with cool items (NOT P2W), optional sub and rewards for those that have already purchased the game.

I think this is the road they are going to end up heading down in another year or so. I think they could have remained as great as they were though if they had not gutted their development team to free up resources for other projects. Rift is what got them where they are, they should have kept it the main focus.

[theWocky]

The in-game store is already there. Why waste development time on this feature if it was not intended to be used. I am pretty sure it is going to be migrated to full F2P as soon as the one year Storm Legion anniversary rolls around.

[Calliso]

The in-game store is already there. Why waste development time on this feature if it was not intended to be used. I am pretty sure it is going to be migrated to full F2P as soon as the one year Storm Legion anniversary rolls around.

Maybe but to be fair people have been claiming Rift is about to go f2p since the game was in beta. I am betting though that they have been considering it. I have mixed feelings on it myself. I am not really sure if Rift would do well on a full f2p model. But I do think they really need an extended Rift lite from like 1-50 with restrictions. I mean that little depot thing is evidence I guess but you can also have a cash shop type thing without any plans to go free to play. I mean doesn't Blizzard sell mounts and stuff?

[Sivick]

and rift was supposed to be a wow killer.... ah well

[Edge-]

and rift was supposed to be a wow killer.... ah well

Not, no it wasn't.

[theWocky]

Maybe but to be fair people have been claiming Rift is about to go f2p since the game was in beta. I am betting though that they have been considering it. I have mixed feelings on it myself. I am not really sure if Rift would do well on a full f2p model. But I do think they really need an extended Rift lite from like 1-50 with restrictions. I mean that little depot thing is evidence I guess but you can also have a cash shop type thing without any plans to go free to play. I mean doesn't Blizzard sell mounts and stuff?

I have mixed feelings too - well at one stage, I was optimistic about Rift doing better, but WoW has a stronger social community, so I don't think anything will attract players from it anytime soon. In my opinion, Rift has proven that you can have a better PvE game (subjective, I know) with more frequent patches, but if people's friends won't leave WoW, they usually go back. My buddies don't play anymore, so most of us have stopped playing.

WoW is going to eventually, gradually (obviously) suffer a greater and greater knock in numbers as the F2P market gets better. Tera is pretty fun, Neverwinter looks really interesting, so as better and better games like this come out with better looking graphics, and with the latest Intel Haswell chips being such a huge graphic step-up, WoW and Rift type sub-based games will be greatly affected by F2P as well as hardware becomes more accessible and the masses will slowly leave.

Why pay when you don't have too? It's a no-brainer. This is not going to happen immediately however - it will only be a gradual decline (unless Blizz really screw up) and probably only see a real mass exodus after another 3 years. WoW's future is safe for now. For Rift to succeed, however, they need to step up their game again with more content release.

Off topic - I'm looking at Neverwinter in depth this weekend. First glance at the opening cinematic, it feels pretty damn epic, something I haven't felt since Rift's opening scene.

ADDITION: Rift was never intended to be a WoW killer - even their cheeky advertising was just to stir up controversy and make people look at the game. To some degree it worked.

[Linzo]

Not, no it wasn't.

It was according to their PR team, "Come join our horde" & "We're not in Azeroth anymore"

OT : there's nothing wrong with F2P if they do it right, most of the games I'm playing currently are F2P.

Dota 2, PoE, Tribes Ascend and Smite.

[RoninaThorstone]

It was according to their PR team, "Come join our horde" & "We're not in Azeroth anymore"

I believe that's called "advertising". Not 100% sure about that, but it might be.

[Kelimbror]

I believe that's called "advertising". Not 100% sure about that, but it might be.

You would be correct. I also don't remember when using a popular product as a basis for distinguishing yourself as a different product ever equated to saying you will kill the other product.

[RoninaThorstone]

You would be correct. I also don't remember when using a popular product as a basis for distinguishing yourself as a different product ever equated to saying you will kill the other product.

Pfft. Pepsi is such a failure. They didn't dethrone coke. So much for the coca-cola killer.

[Kelimbror]

Pfft. Pepsi is such a failure. They didn't dethrone coke. So much for the coca-cola killer.

So much for that Oz place killing Kansas. As we all know, Dorothy was not in Kansas anymore. Oz: The Kansas Killer would have been a much better title for the movie.

[Fencers]

You would be correct. I also don't remember when using a popular product as a basis for distinguishing yourself as a different product ever equated to saying you will kill the other product.

Pepsi was suppose to be a Coke-Cola killer. :'(

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 09:27 AM ----------

Pfft. Pepsi is such a failure. They didn't dethrone coke. So much for the coca-cola killer.

OMG we had the same thought. LOL!

[Lathais]

Anyone who has been playing MMOs for a while knows that the term WoW-Killer died at least couple years ago and nothing will ever kill WoW except for time and possibly WoW2 or Titan or whatever MMO Blizz puts out next. It's a really dumb term to use. WoW is a freak of nature, it's like Facebook, it's a social thing that caught on and people just continue because that is where they have all the time invested already. Really hard to drag people away from a time investment like that.

The advertising, as stated, was aimed at WoW players, but a niche of WoW players. It was a statement that we think we are better and if you give us a shot, we think you'll find the same. It was not them saying, "We are gonna bring WoW down!!" It was an attention grabber to get people talking about the game, that's all.

None of this is really on topic though. What is on topic, is that "lack of content" is actually a subjective term. There is no lack of things to do in Rift. For a newer player, or a casual who does not play more than a few hours a week, there is tons of stuff to do. However, if you're like me and an MMO is your main hobby, you play for 3-4 hours just about every night after you put the kids down for bed, you'll run out of stuff to do fairly quickly because they do not have as much as they did in each patch anymore and the time between patches has slowed a little as well. That doesn't mean the game suddenly got bad, it's just slowed down a bit. Probably a good thing in the long run as it was very overwhelming before. Lot's of people complained that they were not finished with the current stuff when new stuff came out. I think this may be a good thing for Rift, as a business. For the hardcore, well, you just need to find something else to do when you're "all caught up" then adjust when there is more. For me, I have started playing DnD online via a Virtual Tabletop. I am in 2 games, one as a player one as a DM. Once I get my first group going strong, I may start a second group, so if anyone is interested, or just wants to watch and see how it works, PM me.

[Fencers]

There were only like 3 or so games that positioned and marketed themselves as "WoW Killers". The term and history of the market is mostly misunderstood or used incorrectly by "fans", casual observers and the like.

The last major developer/publisher effort to create a "WoW Killer" expressly was in 2009.

It should be noted that MMOs such as Warhammer and Age of Conan failed due to massive technical issues. The latter did find success and is currently ongoing, even receiving major engine/content updates to this day. The former remains a technical disaster after years of near zero development.

To paraphrase an indie dev: "Gamers don't deserve the medium of video games."

[Kelimbror]

There is no lack of things to do in Rift. For a newer player, or a casual who does not play more than a few hours a week, there is tons of stuff to do. However, if you're like me and an MMO is your main hobby, you play for 3-4 hours just about every night after you put the kids down for bed, you'll run out of stuff to do fairly quickly

Entirely true, but unfortunate for Rift because their players I feel are dominantly composed of people like us. It's why I fee like they've goofed in a severe way, because not many people play a niche subscription game as a casual event. Those people are playing GW2 and the plethora of available F2P games now...otherwise they are playing WoW for a subscription because it is has a wider variety of accessibility and rewards for less time.

And that's really the problem. If people like us, who recognize a quality product, cba to keep paying for it because the value is plummeting...that's a really bad sign.

For me, I have started playing DnD online via a Virtual Tabletop. I am in 2 games, one as a player one as a DM. Once I get my first group going strong, I may start a second group, so if anyone is interested, or just wants to watch and see how it works, PM me.

Whoa...didn't even know you could do this. I've always wanted to get into DnD because my dad played when he was in college and the army. I have some old school books from the 70's and 80s, but have no one to play with. I'm going to send you a brief PM to just give me a write up of the basic experience when you get a chance.

[Skippy88]

I'm a fairly new player for me it's not the lack of content it's just nobody seems to want to do the content. Being in Silverwood for the most part a healthy population. Once you get past that though not so much. I was in Iron Pine Peak for instance last night when a zone event popped up and outside of myself I only saw 2 other people participating in it one of which was too low level to really do much so we failed to complete it. 2 nights ago also in Iron Pine Peak we had a different event and it took 30-45 minutes to complete due to lack of numbers.

Instant Adventures started off with 20 or so people but now I've only been in groups of 3-5 people. Dungeons for the most part I have been pleased that people are doing. Occasionally, I have to wait 30 minutes but for the most part it's 5 to 10 minutes which is acceptable to me. Haven't done any PVP yet and I'm only lvl 43 so I'm interested to see what the Storm Legion zones are like and if the above trends continue or not.

[RoninaThorstone]

I'm a fairly new player for me it's not the lack of content it's just nobody seems to want to do the content. Being in Silverwood for the most part a healthy population. Once you get past that though not so much. I was in Iron Pine Peak for instance last night when a zone event popped up and outside of myself I only saw 2 other people participating in it one of which was too low level to really do much so we failed to complete it. 2 nights ago also in Iron Pine Peak we had a different event and it took 30-45 minutes to complete due to lack of numbers.

Instant Adventures started off with 20 or so people but now I've only been in groups of 3-5 people. Dungeons for the most part I have been pleased that people are doing. Occasionally, I have to wait 30 minutes but for the most part it's 5 to 10 minutes which is acceptable to me. Haven't done any PVP yet and I'm only lvl 43 so I'm interested to see what the Storm Legion zones are like and if the above trends continue or not.

Well, that's the problem with games that have leveling. Once people are done with those zones... They tend to be uninhabited.
At level 60 it's much better. Everything below 60 is pretty dead.

[Kelimbror]

I'm a fairly new player for me it's not the lack of content it's just nobody seems to want to do the content.

This is an unfortunate side effect of leveling systems and lack of rewards for old content. Mentoring helps a bit, much like downleveling helps a bit in GW2, but it doesn't 'solve' the problem.

In order to maximize everyone's experience, you would really have to allow rewards for max level characters be fully given from any zone or whatnot in the game. I feel like both Rift and GW2 uses bandaids to try and get people to do this stuff, but unfortunately the honest perception is still there that it's not quite as good as high level content.

It's that old tenet in MMOs that Blizzard uses...if the rewards for one activity are better in any way, or something is more efficient, everyone will do that way and no other way. For the most part it's true. To remedy that, achieving perfect balance across the whole game is mostly impossible.

[Lathais]

I'm a fairly new player for me it's not the lack of content it's just nobody seems to want to do the content. Being in Silverwood for the most part a healthy population. Once you get past that though not so much. I was in Iron Pine Peak for instance last night when a zone event popped up and outside of myself I only saw 2 other people participating in it one of which was too low level to really do much so we failed to complete it. 2 nights ago also in Iron Pine Peak we had a different event and it took 30-45 minutes to complete due to lack of numbers.

Instant Adventures started off with 20 or so people but now I've only been in groups of 3-5 people. Dungeons for the most part I have been pleased that people are doing. Occasionally, I have to wait 30 minutes but for the most part it's 5 to 10 minutes which is acceptable to me. Haven't done any PVP yet and I'm only lvl 43 so I'm interested to see what the Storm Legion zones are like and if the above trends continue or not.

Once you get to 50 and go to the new continents, it gets a lot more populated, especially once you get to 60. Stick with it, it's worth it.

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 10:48 AM ----------

This is an unfortunate side effect of leveling systems and lack of rewards for old content. Mentoring helps a bit, much like downleveling helps a bit in GW2, but it doesn't 'solve' the problem.

In order to maximize everyone's experience, you would really have to allow rewards for max level characters be fully given from any zone or whatnot in the game. I feel like both Rift and GW2 uses bandaids to try and get people to do this stuff, but unfortunately the honest perception is still there that it's not quite as good as high level content.

It's that old tenet in MMOs that Blizzard uses...if the rewards for one activity are better in any way, or something is more efficient, everyone will do that way and no other way. For the most part it's true. To remedy that, achieving perfect balance across the whole game is mostly impossible.

This is why I like the idea of forced mentoring in old zones. You enter an old zone and are more than 5 levels above it's max level, you are mentored to it's max level. There are several problems with this idea, one being the mentor system itself. At some levels, your still way OP and at others you are not quite as strong as you should be. This would need to be remedied first. Secondly, players don't always like the idea of being forced to do something, so many may dislike it at first. Third is as Kitty mentioned, the rewards need to be there.

[Fencers]

I'm a fairly new player for me it's not the lack of content it's just nobody seems to want to do the content. Being in Silverwood for the most part a healthy population. Once you get past that though not so much. I was in Iron Pine Peak for instance last night when a zone event popped up and outside of myself I only saw 2 other people participating in it one of which was too low level to really do much so we failed to complete it. 2 nights ago also in Iron Pine Peak we had a different event and it took 30-45 minutes to complete due to lack of numbers.

That's because Rift is very backloaded. Most of the content which is relevant to players is at the endgame. And the further one goes the more narrow the options for advancement are in the endgame. The ultimate end is: raiding.

In a linear, vertical progression system there just isn't much reason to visit a level 35-45 zone when you are a cross dimensional god-slaying MOFO.

It's not that unique to Rift either. I played World of Warcraft recently and the middle zones were pretty sparse in players. Same with Aion and EQ2 recently. Just a few examples from MMOs I played lately.

The inherent issue is theme park MMOs design their content to expire.

That's just how it is. Rift is heavily endgame focused.