1. #1

    What is PvP lacking?

    A lot of PvPers are quitting wow due to lack of PvP content.
    But what could blizzard bring into PvP to bring back the fun?
    What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Blademaster Hauntlander's Avatar
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    Incentive. The level of entry is intimidating to most people looking to start it conquest gear-wise. Ashran was neutered on the main road and imbalanced when it came to events which means you'll be pushing out a 15k+ conquest cap by grinding arenas versus people who are in full primal at any MMR. When you hit 100 for the first time and take all of that in it's not the most encouraging thing in the world.

    Others would argue balance as one of the big things steering people away.

    I do agree they're neglecting actual PvP content though. Would've loved a few more battlegrounds rather than Ashran. I just wish they would stop taking steps backward in the actual gameplay department.

    And don't even get me started about the botting/combat routines.
    Last edited by Hauntlander; 2015-03-25 at 06:45 PM.

  3. #3
    I don't know.. I think the gearing is more in people's heads. I started playing around in Ashran in 6.0 (late) because I could pop in, PVP, pop out and not affect a team much. Within a couple of nights I was in all 675 gear (Combatant's stuff). IN a week or so I had a couple of 690 (Conquest) pieces. 6.1 kind of killed Ashran for me but even without a lot of extra CP I'm at 681. Is it really that big of a gulf from 681 to full CP gear at 690? Doesn't feel like it.

    PS: this is me - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...vspet/advanced

    I have 4 CP pieces, 3 bought with CP, one from the epic box you get for killing the faction boss in Ashran.
    Last edited by clevin; 2015-03-25 at 06:41 PM.

  4. #4
    Immortal Korgoth's Avatar
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    PvP has two real problems.

    1. Class balance is entirely broken 1v1, 2v2, bad in 3v3, 5v5, and RBGS. Class balancing is being done poorly, and even worse slowly. I can understand them making a bad change, but the rate of change is too low for them to stumble onto success before the next expansion.

    People will argue 1v1 doesnt matter, but it does. That first pvp you get in WoW is not going to be an organized setting with a healer. And if that first pvp you get is fighting an invincible 1v1 class, that just pops their double immunity while dots or a pet kill you, or just bleeds you and runs around a pillar... its a terrible fucking experience. It pushes players away. Feral druids, hunters, rogues, should be not have practical invincibility against most classes. 3v3 balance might be more important, but 1v1 balance matters, and has to be taken into consideration.

    3s is the best point of balance at the moment, but its still fucked. We have a high end where your only hope is to either global someone, or play Combat Rogue/Resto Druid and survive until the other team runs out of CDs, you get a global kill, they or go oom. If you need to see it yourself, go watch a GCD tourney vod. Its a clearly fucked up situation. Which can only be addressed with much needed class changes to Rogues, Druids, and slight nerfs to burst abilities of Feral, Hunter, Fury.

    Rogues were made grossly overpowered this expansion by not getting the CC trimming that other classes got, not getting the defenses trimmed like other classes got, and getting their damage buffed.
    In an expansion where dps warriors lost shield wall, Rogues still have 30% feint, Combat Readiness, Evasion, Cloak of Shadows, Recuperate...
    In an expansion where CC was supposedly reduced, Rogues still have Blind, Gouge, Sap, Garrote, No Cooldown CheapShot, Kidney Shot...
    Then with the damage, Red buff... Killing Spree doing what half of someone health while being practically unpeelable...
    Rogues now do damage equal to warriors, while having better survivability than most classes making them not a viable kill target, and having the most instant CC.

    Then with resto druids, why do they still have blink? Why do spammable roots still exist alongside spammable Cyclone in a CC reduced expansion? Why do they not go oom while out healing other healing classes?

    Just think how silly this it is that the only way you can beat RMD is to instant kill someone, or go through 2 mage blocks. That targeting a rogue is now almost pointless unless you have a rogue that can back to back to back stun (which happened in the last GCD tourney, Kidney into cheap into cheap, combat rogue on combat rogue skillz killz).

    Then outside of the Rogue/Druid god mode setup, you still have burst outliers that are insane. Feral, Fury, Hunter, is a bit asinine. Yet seeing how the only way you win against Rogue/Druid is by globalling someone, hard to say its overpowered, just bad gameplay.

    2. Faction Imbalance
    Holinka intentionally made Alliance overpowered, everyone rerolls Alliance, any new player on Horde is simply fucked. New players on Alliance dont fare much better as now queue times are longer.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Sarix's Avatar
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    A good game

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarix View Post
    A good game
    Don't ask for impossible
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I don't know.. I think the gearing is more in people's heads. I started playing around in Ashran in 6.0 (late) because I could pop in, PVP, pop out and not affect a team much. Within a couple of nights I was in all 675 gear (Combatant's stuff). IN a week or so I had a couple of 690 (Conquest) pieces. 6.1 kind of killed Ashran for me but even without a lot of extra CP I'm at 681. Is it really that big of a gulf from 681 to full CP gear at 690? Doesn't feel like it.

    PS: this is me - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...vspet/advanced

    I have 4 CP pieces, 3 bought with CP, one from the epic box you get for killing the faction boss in Ashran.
    No offence mate but your a hunter.

    Try it as a melee.

  8. #8
    Combat mechanics like vanishing deathcoil or slow falling for dispel protection, every little interesting thing like this adds up.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauntlander View Post
    Incentive. The level of entry is intimidating to most people looking to start it conquest gear-wise. Ashran was neutered on the main road and imbalanced when it came to events which means you'll be pushing out a 15k+ conquest cap by grinding arenas versus people who are in full primal at any MMR. When you hit 100 for the first time and take all of that in it's not the most encouraging thing in the world.

    Others would argue balance as one of the big things steering people away.

    I do agree they're neglecting actual PvP content though. Would've loved a few more battlegrounds rather than Ashran. I just wish they would stop taking steps backward in the actual gameplay department.

    And don't even get me started about the botting/combat routines.
    I feel you on the gearing. Its my belief that people see the 620 pvp gear and the 660 conq gear and think there is a 40 ilvl gap. Meanwhile, its really 675 compared to 690. Sure the full conq geared person has better stats but you will do fine in 675 gear. If you were serious about pvp anyway youd have stayed caught up with everyone else in the season. If you were slow to level to 100 or just made an alt, do you really expect to just be given the 690 gear without the same effort everyone else went through? And if you argue taking away all gear and making it so pvp was always equally geared, then whats the incentive to pvp if theres no rewards? and why even pretend to call it an rpg at that point.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by trush View Post
    A lot of PvPers are quitting wow due to lack of PvP content.
    But what could blizzard bring into PvP to bring back the fun?
    What are your thoughts?
    PvP is fun in general, but as far as pvp-specific content, how would that work aside from instances? To date, wintergrasp was probably their biggest win in terms of "induced" world pvp, as was tol barad to a lesser degree...but they ended up making both areas into instances, so now that both WG and TB are instanced, I don't see why they don't make them into BGs and add them into the rotation.

  11. #11
    Pure casual PvP player, so you can take this however you'd like. My primary problems with WoW PvP:

    - Way too many unbreaking stuns. I have zero issues with spell lockouts or cc / stuns that break on damage. Heck, I expect that out of a game, but to be stunned until death unable to do anything because your trinket is on cooldown is simply not fun (and, in reality, lazy PvP design). I can only imagine that this is an especially unforgivable mechanic to someone that is new to the game.
    - Gear means more than skill until you get enough gear. A fresh max level character gets heavily pummeled and can do little damage against someone who has gear. Sure you can get the gear somewhat easily, but for a casual PvP player, you won't be in a decent position for about a week with several weeks before you have sufficient gear that skill starts to matter gain. How is this fun until that point? And there are no alternatives to that pummeling until you get gear (contrast this with PvE where you have lower level content that matches your gear).
    - Non-viable specs. Want to bring your warlock, your only real choice is affliction. Want to play mage, your only real choice is frost. Unless you enjoy getting pummeled (which isn't fun).
    - Faction imbalance. Literally more than 90% of the 3v3 2200+ rated comps are Alliance. And that carries over to all other aspects of PvP. Enough said?

    Suggested improvements:
    - Individual ratings. Match up with other players of the same rating just like Hearthstone.
    - Get rid of unbreaking stuns. Fix damage and heals instead of relying on that crutch.
    - Make all specs viable. Seriously, there are only 35 possible class / spec combinations. Blizz needs to stop acting like there are tens of thousands of combinations.
    - Separate PvE and PvP damage / mitigation / healing values. Blizz has put in way too many bandaids to try to keep PvE and PvP in some type of harmony except for the several dozen exceptions they've had to code. Just bite the bullet and separate the values so they can get to balance without messing up the other side of the game.

  12. #12
    Blademaster Hauntlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I feel you on the gearing. Its my belief that people see the 620 pvp gear and the 660 conq gear and think there is a 40 ilvl gap. Meanwhile, its really 675 compared to 690. Sure the full conq geared person has better stats but you will do fine in 675 gear. If you were serious about pvp anyway youd have stayed caught up with everyone else in the season. If you were slow to level to 100 or just made an alt, do you really expect to just be given the 690 gear without the same effort everyone else went through? And if you argue taking away all gear and making it so pvp was always equally geared, then whats the incentive to pvp if theres no rewards? and why even pretend to call it an rpg at that point.
    I don't mean to say that people should be given free/easy gear.

    There just needs to be alternatives to Ashran/Arena, both of which are in horrendous states at the moment. Maybe a conquest point every 5-10 honorable kills or something. Anything.

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