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  1. #21
    Mastery will deffinitely overtake crit in 5.4 unless overall crit values drop, as the crit cap won't be far off.

  2. #22
    Reck glyph may have a use finally ^^

  3. #23
    Already does if you got multiple skull banners ^^

  4. #24
    Mechagnome Requiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Already does if you got multiple skull banners ^^
    Would you mind explaining why?

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Already does if you got multiple skull banners ^^
    No it doesn't, it's a DPS decrease and has been all xpac.

  6. #26
    Field Marshal Appolyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnermighty View Post
    Reck glyph may have a use finally ^^
    ^^ this.

    To the point of mastery>crit I wouldn't be surprised to see fury's mastery tweaked/nerfed again as its value gets better. Its been a favorite of theirs since it was introduced. Since our mastery is a multiplier its benefit gets too good easily.

    Also, back at the point of my thread, I ran a few bosses last night Arms to check the meta out. By chance we decided to try the Primordius achieve a la Patchwerk. We didn't rank for sure, I sure did miss mah buffs lol. However, it did give a great benchmark with raid buffs and looks like on average against SMF its ~= 1.5% more or so. Now, as arms I'm sitting at 16%+ haste (unbuffed) and I don't run real raids with a haste forge as fury.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p5...?s=3195&e=3631

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Appolyon View Post

    To the point of mastery>crit I wouldn't be surprised to see fury's mastery tweaked/nerfed again as its value gets better. Its been a favorite of theirs since it was introduced. Since our mastery is a multiplier its benefit gets too good easily.
    Is there any actual math to back that up ? Of course mastery overtakes crit at a time but at that time crit also gets devalued by huge amounts.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    No it doesn't, it's a DPS decrease and has been all xpac.
    Well I manage to rank well with it at least.
    Last edited by Choptimus; 2013-04-22 at 07:07 PM.

  9. #29
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Mastery will probably overtake crit in 5.4. Haste, I don't see it ever beating mastery this xpac.
    Just curious if anyone knows the magic number that crit will devalue.

    Also, as crit/mastery goes up, haste does too. I am curious if haste will ever overtake mastery/crit with 5.4/5.5 gear

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Well I manage to rank well with it at least.
    First off, that doesn't prove anything. Point: You can rank using no glyphs. Secondly, it's been a DPS loss every point this expac, and there are no good warriors who use it for that very reason. Ask any other good warrior on these boards, sinner, recke, jalopy, req, etc. Critting during SB/BB/CDs/Pots is much more important than critting outside of those. The math isn't difficult, although it'd take me a few minutes to do and I don't have time ATM, but even if you look at it you can tell it's not great. For one, after those 12 seconds are up you're pretty much out of rage anyway due to your BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB-BT-RB/HS/HS/HS/HS/HL burst 5 GCDs into the fight meaning those last 6 seconds are mostly useless. Second, BT has such as high crit chance currently that getting that extra RB proc is likely to happen w/o the glyph, and will most likely have to be spent before the 2nd BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB combo anyway. Even if it weren't, it still wouldn't be a DPS gain. Finally, consider how much loss of bonus DPS you suffer, due to weaker BB amounts, and fewer crits during SB/trinkets/pots/CS. To summarize, use reck glyph, you're bad. Than again, you're also using frozen warlord bracers so I'm notsure what I expected.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 01:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Just curious if anyone knows the magic number that crit will devalue.

    Also, as crit/mastery goes up, haste does too. I am curious if haste will ever overtake mastery/crit with 5.4/5.5 gear

    SMF BIS Profile Stat Weights:
    Str: 1
    Crit: 0.79
    Haste: 0.61
    Mastery: 0.73
    Overcap hit: 0.47

    TG BIS:
    Str: 1
    Crit: 0.83
    Haste: 0.63
    Mastery: 0.83
    Overcap hit: 0.48

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...422422?page=83
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-04-22 at 07:39 PM.

  11. #31
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Allow me to re-phrase....magic number where crit will be surpassed

  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Allow me to re-phrase....magic number where crit will be surpassed
    When it's SEP is less than that of mastery? It's going to depend on weapons and such next tier. As you get better weapons, crit gains value up to a point. Before I had heroic TF MH, crit was down to like .87 SEP. Afterwards, it jumped to .93

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    snip
    Calm down princess. The bracers are the best I've got, nothing else dropped lol, although I am picking up the VP ones and going for even more expertise!!11!

    IDK why you're throwing around "you're bad" lol.

    Edit: Also, as you seem to like wow-heroes so much:

    Yours:


    Mine:


    ??
    Last edited by Choptimus; 2013-04-22 at 11:06 PM.

  14. #34
    Field Marshal Appolyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    When it's SEP is less than that of mastery? It's going to depend on weapons and such next tier. As you get better weapons, crit gains value up to a point. Before I had heroic TF MH, crit was down to like .87 SEP. Afterwards, it jumped to .93
    ^ This is exactly why I see mastery getting a tweak.

    I guess the irony for a lot of us that have played this class, for so long, is that a bit of the fun is trying to get competitive numbers in spite of the consistent, almost random "tweaks" to our class. Its almost a race really to do something around the intent of the Dev's plans (like 100% passive ArPen) for a few weeks of keeping up with ranged classes. Its threads like this that get us trying stuff, and sharing it, I hope.

  15. #35
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Calm down princess. The bracers are the best I've got, nothing else dropped lol, although I am picking up the VP ones and going for even more expertise!!11!

    IDK why you're throwing around "you're bad" lol.

    Edit: Also, as you seem to like wow-heroes so much:

    Yours:


    Mine:


    ??
    You do know that ranking doesn't itself mean you're good or bad, right? It simply means if you were better, you'd rank higher and if worse, lower. Hence why I argue with facts and not just rankings. If you use reck glyph, you're bad, because it is a DPS loss, and has been at every point this tier.

    For the record, I challenge you to find one other warrior who is good to say reck is a DPS increase. I asked some of my btag friends and every single one said it's a DPS loss. Note these are people from US top 30 or very good warriors. (Brak, Requiel, Collision, etc.)



    So ya, other warriors agree it's bad. The data supports that it's bad. The logic supports that it's bad. And you list some rankings on fights that you are geared on. Sorry, everything supports me except your word. And I can live without that.

  16. #36
    Blademaster Wrekon's Avatar
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    recklessness glyph is bad, no one had to tell me that either

  17. #37
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Reck glyph's best use is on the shelf. I imagine it will be useful next tier, but only time will tell.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome Requiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Reck glyph's best use is on the shelf. I imagine it will be useful next tier, but only time will tell.
    I don't think so unless we are rocking 70% crit, the main reason why its bad its bad is because the added duration does nothing to our dps as we only effectively use 6-7.5 of the buff due to the fact that we don't do anything outside of CS.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    You do know that ranking doesn't itself mean you're good or bad, right? It simply means if you were better, you'd rank higher and if worse, lower. Hence why I argue with facts and not just rankings. If you use reck glyph, you're bad, because it is a DPS loss, and has been at every point this tier.

    So ya, other warriors agree it's bad. The data supports that it's bad. The logic supports that it's bad. And you list some rankings on fights that you are geared on. Sorry, everything supports me except your word. And I can live without that.
    Stop tryharding you scrub.

    Progressing on primordius, where usually have 60+ crit. Oh yeah makes sense now?

    Anyway the tl;dr is: You're getting angry/butthurt/mad because you have friends that are top 30 warriors? Grats?

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Fury_Warrior/

    1 Collision Coon and friends US-Stormrage 260834
    2 Choptimus Prime EU-Tarren Mill 254591

    Less than 6k DPS behind your own quoted friend and "very good warrior".

    I didn't have lust on that fight. I'm using a Sha weapon in my offhand.

    Collision has heroic thunderforged weapon, and trinket. Oh and the legendary meta.

    I'm less than 6k DPS behind him without lust and with worse weapons and trinkets.

    Yes I'm clearly bad.

    You're an idiot, I appreciate your math and theorycraft is usually very good but I still rank higher than you, and compete with your "very good warriors in top 30" even though I "use the wrong glyph" (PS: I was progressing on Primordius at the time of Reck glyph, mainly trying it out to see how it behaves when you have 60%+ crit due to the buffs on Primordius. You already knew that though because you are the original annoying little know it all prick who hasn't even seen the encounter.)

    I don't care who you have on your friends list, they are good warriors, you're a theorycrafter, good job on maths. Now go do it in game.

    Sick ranks brah.

    Edit: Verdisha from Paragon offered me to join him and start a 25 man guild last night, I guess that's because I'm bad?
    Last edited by Choptimus; 2013-04-23 at 03:28 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    snip
    Chill the fuck down; you're acting like an elitist neckbeard.

    It has been simmed time and time again that the glyph is WORSE than unglyphed. What does this mean for YOU? It means that you could do even more DPS; it means that if you don't have it you probably can be ranked 1 on almost all the fights you're ranking sub-20 on right now.

    Noone is directly hating on you, they're just against the notion that you think that the glyph is a DPS increase. It isn't.... yet.

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