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  1. #1

    Prot warrior gemming 10M HC

    At my current gear lvl I have about 4.5k expertise not counting reforge and gems. When do I stop gemming for exp / steam in red sockets? I've noticed quite a few warrior tanks going for parry / stam in red sockets and neglecting to hard cap expertise.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekked View Post
    At my current gear lvl I have about 4.5k expertise not counting reforge and gems. When do I stop gemming for exp / steam in red sockets? I've noticed quite a few warrior tanks going for parry / stam in red sockets and neglecting to hard cap expertise.
    That would be wrong, every prot warrior should hardcap exp... Simply to maximise rage generation so you can actively mitigate properly.

    That said for 10M you can start using Master/Stamina instead of Full Stamina gems and the things in order to max mitigation as in 10 man we don't need a massive healthpool for most heroic fights (although it somewhat depends on your healers aswell).
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  3. #3
    High Overlord Sne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekked View Post
    At my current gear lvl I have about 4.5k expertise not counting reforge and gems. When do I stop gemming for exp / steam in red sockets? I've noticed quite a few warrior tanks going for parry / stam in red sockets and neglecting to hard cap expertise.
    In 10man you don't really need to go for the parry/dodge stats imo, I've been going almost full stam and a bit mastery, in red sockets I go str/stam since str provides with both parry and a bit more damage. Hardcapping expertise is mandatory if you are going for hcs both damagewise and steady rageregen, you simply can't afford to not getting all shieldslams and revenges when you need to get a SB up for the next big hit.

  4. #4
    Thanks.

    So when does one stop stacking exp stam gem in red sockets? Also our guild is going to transition into 25m. Is exp hardcap still better than avoidance stats in this case?

  5. #5
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekked View Post
    Thanks.

    So when does one stop stacking exp stam gem in red sockets? Also our guild is going to transition into 25m. Is exp hardcap still better than avoidance stats in this case?
    You don't ^^ More Exp from gems means you can reforge those other stats on your armor into Mastery instead of Expertise
    Hardcap Exp is the way to go

  6. #6
    Hit 7.5% -> Expertise 15% first, gemming everything mastery/hit+mastery/exp+mastery. No stamina anywhere, you don't need stamina in 10man.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    Hit 7.5% -> Expertise 15% first, gemming everything mastery/hit+mastery/exp+mastery. No stamina anywhere, you don't need stamina in 10man.
    Agreed. Seems to be the best way to go.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    No stamina anywhere, you don't need stamina in 10man.
    Depends on your ilvl and the tactics you're using to approach certain fights. We facetank bats on tortos, rocking 800k hitpoints on top of the shell buff clearly helps there, all damage i take is super bursty and then there's the 550k hp treshhold. And on basically pure magic fights like council (on Marly duty) it's handy as well.

    But if you already got gear (!= rocking somewhere between 510-520 from the very first week) you'll have tons and tons of extra stamina baseline and won't need the extra gemslots to make up for that and just swap trinkets accordingly. Btw on most other fights it's actually no question between stamina or mastery but either one of those and dps (strength/crit) to make it to enrage timers because tank damage intake just doesn't matter at all (eg: heroic twins) or tank dps matters (at least if we want to somewhat compete with other tanking classes, but i don't want to start this discussion here all over again).

    For everything else mastery is king, while i'd love to see a direct decrease in damage intake (0% mastery = 30% block, 50% mastery = 45% block, 100% mastery = 60% block) rather similar to the paladin damage reduction and not a RNG fest ... having close to 90% critblock chance is regulary enough to make a worthwhile impression on both the bosses and your healer. I'm really looking forward to the 100% critblock and what i want to do afterwards (stam, avoidance, damage who knows).

  9. #9
    Is expertise hardcap still preferred for 25M and 25M heroics? Noticed alot of prot warriors in top end guilds gemming for parry and stam strictly. Ignoring mastery & expertise hardcap (tho still soft capped).

  10. #10
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Any warrior gemming for parry is doing it wrong
    I dont know what top end guilds you have been looking at for 25m HC, I wouldn't be running with anything other than expertise hardcap and then going fully into stam

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekked View Post
    Is expertise hardcap still preferred for 25M and 25M heroics? Noticed alot of prot warriors in top end guilds gemming for parry and stam strictly. Ignoring mastery & expertise hardcap (tho still soft capped).
    Ya what warriors are you looking at? Stam is the way to go in 25 man. No question at the moment.

  12. #12
    i see Prots top 10 man guilds also use Stamina ...
    can u explain this ?
    dont think the way to go is mastery (Hc content)

  13. #13
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Depends totally on the fight tbh

  14. #14
    You have to remember that stamina only gives more health, and health is completely useless, unless you run out. In my 10-man group (we haven't reached heroics yet, but we're close) I found that instances of wipes because I died to be exceedingly rare, so I opted for going full mastery (after exp and hit caps) instead

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 07:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo33 View Post
    i see Prots top 10 man guilds also use Stamina ...
    can u explain this ?
    dont think the way to go is mastery (Hc content)
    Probably because of mrrobot's default weights telling them to, most people just use mrrobot and ignore the fact that the weights aren't an exact science for tanks, healers and non-patchwerk style dps
    I don't think this matters nearly as much as you think it does.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by zoefschildpad View Post
    You have to remember that stamina only gives more health, and health is completely useless, unless you run out. In my 10-man group (we haven't reached heroics yet, but we're close) I found that instances of wipes because I died to be exceedingly rare, so I opted for going full mastery (after exp and hit caps) instead

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 07:04 PM ----------


    Probably because of mrrobot's default weights telling them to, most people just use mrrobot and ignore the fact that the weights aren't an exact science for tanks, healers and non-patchwerk style dps

    well i dont think top players use mr. robot (only for reforge maybe ) .
    also in hc content tanks gets insane amount of dmg ( in half of the fights ) so hp pool is completly not useless... its reduce the chance u will die like in 2-3 hits that can come from less then 1 sec ( that include raid dmg ). thats why it so important

  16. #16
    There is never too much health: a 150k on a 450k health is a time to spam flash heal, 150k on a 800k tank it's "a let hots do their work", perception and giving healers, hots and intelligent heals do their work it's sometimes a bigger mana save than less damage. And if you don't care either for healer's mana, it gives them more time to heal the raid, attend to a mechanic/whatever. The question is whether is more valuable that other things. Personally, I gemmed for stamina on the first weeks of heroics, now I'm fairly comfortable with 0 gems @700k.

    And I'm still fairly adamant on going 100% mastery -> crit next tier.
    Last edited by Espada; 2013-05-15 at 08:20 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    There is never too much health: a 150k on a 450k health is a time to spam flash heal, 150k on a 800k tank it's "a let hots do their work", perception and giving healers, hots and intelligent heals do their work it's sometimes a bigger mana save (if someone still cares about mana healer due to tank damage) than less damage. The question is whether is more valuable that other things. Personally, I gemmed for stamina on the first weeks of heroics, now I'm fairly comfortable with 0 gems @700k.
    Did exactly the same as Espada, gemmed stamina the first weeks, now we've killed 8/13 I feel fine going back to gemming mastery where I had stamina before.

    I don't know if i'll do the mastery -> crit thing he'll do next tier though but that's another subject all together since imo it's better to achieve that through reforges than gemming differently.

    Anyhow, when stepping into Heroic content with an ilvl of around ~510 gemming stamina really isn't bad, and even after more stuff dies and your ilvl gets higher and thus you have more base stamina to begin with I wouldn't flat out call a tank that gems stamina instead of mastery wrong. (It also depends on what your healer prefer, more buffer or more overall avoidance.)
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    Depends on your ilvl and the tactics you're using to approach certain fights. We facetank bats on tortos, rocking 800k hitpoints on top of the shell buff clearly helps there, all damage i take is super bursty and then there's the 550k hp treshhold. And on basically pure magic fights like council (on Marly duty) it's handy as well.
    If I need stamina I will just swap in a stamina trinket in. You get more stamina on trinkets anyway (per budget) so its a waste to regem your gear for maybe 1-2 encounters.

  19. #19
    I prefer 7,50% hit, 7,50% expertise, and everything else in mastery, which is 61,33% for me atm without buffs. HP is okay with this as well, currently 575k unbuffed. See no reason to increase it.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulus View Post
    I prefer 7,50% hit, 7,50% expertise, and everything else in mastery, which is 61,33% for me atm without buffs. HP is okay with this as well, currently 575k unbuffed. See no reason to increase it.
    Really? Even on heroic content and shit? :| The "randomness" in my rage generation with 7.5% exp would piss me off to no extend.
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

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