Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #61
    They've already completed normal modes. It's a requirement to even touch heroics in the first place, and it's not like they are just 'skipping' bosses, they are doing it on a different mode, normal. What's the problem?

  2. #62
    Did you ever do heroic raiding? There are bosses that are very hard and there are bosses that are really easy. So maybe you want to do Ji Kun heroic before doing Council heroic. Then you get some heroic loot which makes the other heroic bosses easier. Don't try to compare the casual raiding guild to blood legion or something there. There are like 10 leagues above them

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by kippi View Post
    Why do people keep saying toggle down to LFR, that is NOT AN OPTION. I'm guessing you don't do heroics, but when you swap heroics on and off, you are literally toggling the difficulty of the instance, it reloads and puts you back in the point where you were standing. You have NO option to "toggle" LFR.

    You can queue for it if normal mode is too hard for you, but this thread only made it to 3 pages because the OP doesn't understand the definitions of the terms hes using.

    Linear refers to doing something in a straight progression path. No one is finishing Lei Shen for heroic gear and starting back at the beginning. Please get a fucking dictionary.

    p.s. WotLK wants its complaints back
    Quote Originally Posted by kippi View Post
    Real talk this is the only way to do the instance non-linearly :P ONLY LFR HAS THIS OPTION, PLEASE LOOK UP WORDS BEFORE YOU USE THEM

    You can't pick the LFR setting and immediately swap to that instance from normal and you cannot skip a boss in progression and then go back to the previous boss, only their difficulty can be swapped from normal to heroic, please stop misleading people.
    Take a deep breath. Hold it for 5 seconds. Exhale. Repeat.

    You are taking it way too literally. I think everyone here understands that there is no LFR toggle. Someone stated that there is a toggle for heroic and there isn't one for normal because there is nothing below normal to toggle to. The obvious retort is LFR. So it's more of a "why not have a toggle for LFR in normal modes". This would allow normal raiders who cannot get past boss #2 or #4 but could kill #3 and #7 to progress in the same manner that heroic raiders get to cherry pick what fights they want to tackle.



    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    Did you ever do heroic raiding? There are bosses that are very hard and there are bosses that are really easy. So maybe you want to do Ji Kun heroic before doing Council heroic. Then you get some heroic loot which makes the other heroic bosses easier. Don't try to compare the casual raiding guild to blood legion or something there. There are like 10 leagues above them
    Your missing the entire point. In normals there are some bosses that are more difficult than others too. The OP is wondering why normal raiders can't pick and choose the order OR why don't heroics force you to the same order (you cannot fight boss #2 in heroic mode until boss #1 in heroic has been defeated).
    Last edited by Promark; 2013-04-18 at 08:29 PM.
    to: preposition; used as a function word to indicate position, connection, extent, relation ~ too: adverb; also, very, excessively, so

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    I actually agree with the basis of the OP's complaint. All the heroic raiders pine for the old TBC days. In which there was only Heroic mode bosses. In those good ol days, you either killed boss #3 or you were stuck. Now you get to skip boss number 3 and maybe do easy bosses 4 & 7 on Heroic.

    That's not so bad, but then you have the same heroic raiders complaining about having to do the bosses twice. Why shouldn't heroic raiders get told the same thing as normal raiders. "Keep head smashing until you get it"? And what does "We've done it already on normal" have to do with getting to skip past a harder Heroic boss to get to the easier one. I'm 99% sure those same heroic raiders would complain about Normal modes, if they could toggle a LFR buff on the harder normal bosses.

    I'm personally a fan of, "once you go heroic you can't go back" mode.
    Don't say "all the heroic raiders" when you mean you. I certainly don't pine for TBC days, they were horrible.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuzzfizzle View Post
    Comparing apples to thermonuclear warheads doesn't really work.
    ^ Pretty much this.

    I don't get any of this. There is no such thing as "heroic raiders" vs "normal raiders". There's just raiders. Everyone has the same instance with the same mechanics and the same rules. If it was 2 separate instances and you clicked a button at the start of each tier to decide if you do heroic or normal you'd have a point, but there isn't. The two are linked together and everyone has equal access and opportunity for both.


  6. #66
    It's actually pretty simple. Guilds working on heroic content get to choose the order because heroic content is optional. No one is forced to do heroic. However if you want to and choose to do heroic you must first clear the entire instance on normal. Now for most of the guilds currently clearing heroic content or working their way through it this means that they have cleared all content on normal mode in order and in most cases did so the week normal came out if not the week after. So not only have they cleared normal in order but they have done it again and again and again. Therefore they get to choose how they progress through heroic since it is a choice not something they are forced into.

    And if none of that is good enough then I can give you the jerk answer which is because we are better than you and were clearing normal before you even got to see the joke lfr version of TOT. And because blizzard doesn't actually really care about normal hence why they nerf the crap out of it over and over so baddies can finally kill a boss after 3 weeks of wiping to it. Heroic is the top of the line that they make in each tier and they want people good enough to tackle it and they don't care what order we see it in.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Noorri View Post
    Give me a good reason why heroic raiders can cherry pick easy bossfights.
    Because we're forced into the system and that's the best way to handle the system.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Promark View Post
    Your missing the entire point. In normals there are some bosses that are more difficult than others too. The OP is wondering why normal raiders can't pick and choose the order OR why don't heroics force you to the same order (you cannot fight boss #2 in heroic mode until boss #1 in heroic has been defeated).
    The difference between the x'th and y'th on normal isn't just as big as those fights on heroic mode though. As an example, Ji'kun probably one of the easiest fights in whole tier and on both modes. But the difference between Ji'kun and Council isn't exactly the difference between both on heroic modes. Or like last tier, some guilds might find Garalon or Amber Shaper harder than any other normal mode boss in that instance, but Zor'lok hc was the hardest fight for many guilds except Empress. Odd bosses like Ji'kun or Twins aside, normals scale pretty linearly but it's not true for heroics.

    Pretty much none of the tiers had linear difficulty on heroic so far and I guess that is intended by design. Your raid composition plays much bigger role on heroics, even a single class can make a huge difference on particular fights and that changes the difficulty. I don't think Blizzard tries very hard to create linear progression on heroic modes since it can't really be done anyway.

  9. #69
    I honestly wouldn't have any issue with the instance being unable to be turned back to heroic once a boss has been killed on normal. Most of the times, if people skip a boss, it isn't because it's too hard, it's because there are loot pinatas awaiting them further in the instance, which is a major difference.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Noorri View Post
    People doing normal has already done it on LFR in order.
    Nope, I do 10 man, don't do LFR

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by laplacedemon View Post
    The difference between the x'th and y'th on normal isn't just as big as those fights on heroic mode though. As an example, Ji'kun probably one of the easiest fights in whole tier and on both modes. But the difference between Ji'kun and Council isn't exactly the difference between both on heroic modes. Or like last tier, some guilds might find Garalon or Amber Shaper harder than any other normal mode boss in that instance, but Zor'lok hc was the hardest fight for many guilds except Empress. Odd bosses like Ji'kun or Twins aside, normals scale pretty linearly but it's not true for heroics.

    Pretty much none of the tiers had linear difficulty on heroic so far and I guess that is intended by design. Your raid composition plays much bigger role on heroics, even a single class can make a huge difference on particular fights and that changes the difficulty. I don't think Blizzard tries very hard to create linear progression on heroic modes since it can't really be done anyway.
    You're deluding a little yourself dude. To you it might not feel like the normal modes have a big difficulty difference but that's because to you none of the normal modes are difficult period. To a guild that only does normals those differences will feel a lot more pronounced while every single heroic will look the same.

    Linear vs non-linear difficulty scaling have nothing to do with why the instance works the way it does. It works this way as a continuation on the Ulduar model which was the first tier with "hard modes" raiding (unless you count Sarth+3). WHY exactly we're allowed to do it this way? I couldn't say, all I know is that historically they released Uld, then they released ToC/ToGC which made the "hard modes" into "heroic modes" changeable as part of the UI. People asked for it to be closer to the Uld model so form ICC onwards this is what it has been.

    If you go back and read blue posts from the period you can follow the evolution of heroic mode raiding from WotLK onwards. It hasn't changed much since ICC. And there's nothing wrong with it so there's no need to change it.
    Last edited by RavenGage; 2013-04-19 at 02:33 AM.


  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Noorri View Post
    I know how it works, but I can't see a good reason for it.

    Considering there is no real storyline progression I can't see this as a valid reason. Most raiders do it on LFR before they do it in normal anyway so they have already seen the "storyline".
    There is LFR.

    Give me a good reason why heroic raiders can cherry pick easy bossfights. Shouldn't they have to do the hard ones to earn the easies bosses?
    I'm having a hard time trying to figure out why this bothers you so much. Are you stuck on normal modes and crying because heroic raiders, who have already cleared the place on normal in the "correct" order, are getting to skip around with heroic bosses? Seriously, what's the point of your whining?

  13. #73
    High Overlord KennyBoi3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by Gracos View Post
    I'm having a hard time trying to figure out why this bothers you so much. Are you stuck on normal modes and crying because heroic raiders, who have already cleared the place on normal in the "correct" order, are getting to skip around with heroic bosses? Seriously, what's the point of your whining?
    blaming someone else for the fact that he lacks the skill/time/motivation to commit to the game.

    I can attest to that because I know that I am missing one of those to be a successful PvPer as well.

  14. #74
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,283
    I actually kinda agree. It almost adds a layer of stress and planning to progression I wouldn't mind not having. Blizzard should stop being lazy and linearly tune hc bosses instead of letting us figure out a path.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    I actually kinda agree. It almost adds a layer of stress and planning to progression I wouldn't mind not having. Blizzard should stop being lazy and linearly tune hc bosses instead of letting us figure out a path.
    Seriously? THEY'RE the lazy ones? Because they worked to implement a game system that allows us flexibility and choice, which was harder to develop than a purely linear system, and did so due to player requests... and that makes them LAZY?

    I'm not even gonna get into the irony of you calling someone else lazy because you can't be bothered to go on Google for 10 seconds and check the optimal order or orders for heroic progression. I can't really say that falls in my list of top 10 "stressful planning" things when it comes to leading a raid group.


  16. #76
    Mechagnome Bormes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    IL, USA
    Posts
    507
    Heroic raiders were normal raiders once too. Every1 had to clear it at least once on normal. Therefore, since both "groups" of raiders have, in fact, progressed it linearly, your question makes no sense.

  17. #77
    OP i think you should stop wiping at durumu normal and get on with it.

    this sounds like a huge pile of bias

  18. #78
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,283
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    they worked to implement a game system that allows us flexibility and choice, which was harder to develop than a purely linear system
    Yeah, that is not how it works. Blizzard has always had a hard time tuning hc bosses linearly, just look at spine.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    I honestly wouldn't have any issue with the instance being unable to be turned back to heroic once a boss has been killed on normal. Most of the times, if people skip a boss, it isn't because it's too hard, it's because there are loot pinatas awaiting them further in the instance, which is a major difference.
    Without those loot pinatas (tortos, ji kun and iron qon), many guilds would not progress to the harder bosses, and most likely fall apart.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Yeah, that is not how it works. Blizzard has always had a hard time tuning hc bosses linearly, just look at spine.
    You're assuming that they want the bosses to be linearly difficult in the first place. Who says it has to get harder with each boss? Has it occurred to you that it might fluctuate in difficulty by deliberate design? Why should they "stop being lazy" as you put it and design instances in such a way? Just because you want them to? What about all the people who don't want that?

    What you're asking for goes against what most people in gaming actually want. You assume that figuring out your own path is a chore, most people see that as a benefit. Don't blame Blizzard for making their game flexible just because you're in a minority who want it to be the other way.

    Pick up a gaming magazine or go on a review website anywhere and you'll see words like flexible and choice used as positives, and linear as negatives. The only games where linearity is accepted by critics and most gamers as a good thing is ones that are highly story driven, which raids certainly aren't (and the part of raids that does have story to it, like normals, ARE linear). You're treating choice as a burden where most people see it as a boon. That's not Blizzard's fault.
    Last edited by RavenGage; 2013-04-19 at 06:14 AM.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •