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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Noorri View Post
    I know how it works, but I can't see a good reason for it.

    Considering there is no real storyline progression I can't see this as a valid reason. Most raiders do it on LFR before they do it in normal anyway so they have already seen the "storyline".
    There is LFR.

    Give me a good reason why heroic raiders can cherry pick easy bossfights. Shouldn't they have to do the hard ones to earn the easies bosses?
    A good reason would be heroic bosses are already harsh to make and balance. If they also need to make sure bosses are killed in a specific order, that'd mean a lot of extra time would go into that, and for no good reason. As a specific example, after they designed their content, which was ready to be released, they'd now have to go back and re-design jikun, megeara and council so they can be done in the order of appearance. Now, the nature of those encounters on heroic just makes that quite hard to do, and you'd gain absolutely nothing by it.

    Why normals can't skip.... Well, Blizzard chose the raids to be linear. As to why that is, your guess is as good as mine. Ulduar and Icecrown were a lot less linear. But, as a side-effect, all non-linear bosses will need to be equal in difficulty, because they cannot expect the common, casual raider who steps in there to do the research, or have the insight, that heroic raiders need. I guess it's just easier to make them linear for that reason, and perhaps this is why Ulduar, and even (though less so, especially with the nerfs later on), ICC was so brutally unforgiving to more casual groups.
    Last edited by Cirque; 2013-04-19 at 06:40 AM.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Noorri View Post
    Can anyone give me a good reason why they can do this? Looking at WoWprogress it's quite obvious that the most common heroic progression path is very non-linear. Why is it okay for heroic raiders to do stuff non-linear and normal raiders have to do each boss to get to the next?
    Good reason : Because they cleared the storyline already on normal, which unlocks 'benefits'. LFR is not taken in consideration in this equation and should never be.

    Now give us a good reason why this even bothers you?
    Or is this one of those 'I want to have what topnotch has with less or no effort' QQthreads?


    I tend to say so.
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    I don't celebrate National Native Americans Welcomed Us With Open Arms and Helped Us Survive the First Winter That We Were Woefully Unprepared For and We Repaid Them By Taking Their Lands, Raping Their Women and Murdering Them Day....
    Several Indian tribes see this holiday as the beginning of a process by which they tragically lost their land, and their population was decimated. Every year Indians come together in Plymouth to commemorate their "national day of mourning."

  3. #83
    heroic raiders kill the bosses in a linear fashion the same way you do mate

  4. #84
    The day when blizzard manages to adjust the difficulty of heroic encounter's such that doing them in chronological order is plausible to everyone and not just top 10 guilds is the day raiders kill them in that order.

    Currently atleast in ToT 10 the difficulty is all over the place which is the reason many guilds kill them in random order.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    So you got no problem with me toggling LFR mode for normals for the bosses we can quite get? I hear Twins and Lei Shen is pretty easy on 10 man normal. I'd like to go get some of that loot maybe head back to Dumuru later.



    The point (that Heroic raiders point out) is back in the good ol' days of BC, is that Heroic mode was the normal mode. You either killed the bosses or you didn't
    Troll....if you cant down Dumuru NH you will get your ass ripped off by Lei Shen

  6. #86
    Sorry I guess this question just seems stupid to me. I can't think of a reason why heroics shouldn't be able to be done non-linear.

    It's pretty uncommon for games of all genres these days to not allow you to switch difficulty between levels. In an raid each boss is basically a level. Makes perfect sense to me that things are the way that they are and it's confusing that someone would think otherwise.

  7. #87
    Raiding has always been a linear thing (unless the raid itself was non-linear, such as BWD, but even that was kill all the bosses before Nef), and the people doing heroic progression are killing the bosses linearly regardless of whether they are killing them on heroic or not. You cannot get to boss 3 without boss 2 dead. You cannot fight boss 4 without boss 3 dead. Etc. etc. What does it matter what mode you kill them on, you still kill them linearly. Sounds to me like you're complaining for the sake of complaining, really.

  8. #88
    Let the OP toggle his raid difficulty to LFR while doing his Normal run. Of course, the loot you get will be LFR quality, and I'm tempted to even put in the caveat that it'll be done LFR loot style too, individual rolls. After all, that's the difficulty level you'd be completing it on, so the rewards would have to be commensurate.

    Of course, if you can't kill the next boss on Normal, you'd just switch it back to LFR and do that. That system might actually create full on organized LFR guilds. But while I can understand Horridon being a problem for a 10m and then them being able to get Council and Tortos if they could skip Horriodn, I don't see them getting past many of the other bosses. Megaera's rough for most 10m's I hear, Ji-kun requires good coordination, Durumu's got a hard enrage. Maybe Primordius if you can meet the DPS check. Dark Animus will destroy you if you don't have good coordination. Qon and Consorts had what I thought were relatively tight DPS checks on 25m, don't know about 10. And Lei Shen is a fairly complex fight with the number of mechanics. Oh wait, Horridon tests your group's coordination. And to a mildly lesser extent your gear. So a group that can kill Horridon will be much better prepared to clear the rest on Normal. Whereas a group that can't will struggle with several of the 10 fights past it.

    But really, I have no problem with the OP doing LFR in his guild run, so long as the rewards are commensurate with it. It's kind of like reverse elitism here. It's usually the Heroic raider complaining that someone else is clearing stuff easily, not the more casual complaining the Heroic raider gets to choose which soul-crushing encounter to bang his head on for hours on end.[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 04:21 AM ----------

    Sorry double post, had a bad connection at the time.
    Last edited by ZakAtack; 2013-04-20 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Double post

  9. #89
    The reason is simply that normal and heroic lockouts are shared.

    You are basically required to clear the instance each week for gear and cant afford being stuck on any boss for a great length of time.

    You want heroic bosses killed in a linear fashion, separate the lockouts again.

  10. #90
    When blizz can balance 10 and 25 difficulty per boss fight then they can make linear a thing untill then NO.

    10 man heroic difficulty jinrok > ji-kun > horridon > iron qon > tortos > council > meagara > primo > durumu > cosorts > animus > lei shen
    25 man heroic jinrok > horridon > tortos> meagara > ji-kun > council > primo > iron qon > consorts > animus > lei shen

    notice how a few fights are a large different between difficulties. iron qon and ji-kun are a joke on 10 compared to 25. Meagara is a joke on 25 compared to 10 Council was almost unkillable on 10 man week 1-2 to any guild not named paragon.

    this isn't a 10 vs 25 post this is just a If blizz does a better job of making bosses the same difficulty between 10/25 then they can start worrying about linear. but if you get linear in 1 and the other stuck on 1 boss because its 5x harder this model will not work.
    Mohots---Main
    Molife ---Alt
    Monopaly---Alt/old Main

  11. #91
    I do remember that Blizzard tuned normal-mode bosses not focussed on high damage-income on the raid and tight dps-checks but on mechanics.
    It's simply a l2p issue....

    If you can't get pass the bosses in normalmode in 500-505 ilvl, you just have to improve your personal skill.
    No, Kanrethad is not too hard.

  12. #92
    What on earth would anyone gain from implementing the implied change to make it so you can't do heroic bosses once you skip one or whatever?

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Hakto View Post
    You want heroic bosses killed in a linear fashion, separate the lockouts again.
    Please no. Never again.


  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstrong View Post
    The day when blizzard manages to adjust the difficulty of heroic encounter's such that doing them in chronological order is plausible to everyone and not just top 10 guilds is the day raiders kill them in that order.
    I'd note this as well, not to mention that with the difficulty being nonlinear the developers have more freedom in the creation of the heroic encounters and it also potentially prolongs the progression for the guilds that would have problems with doing everything chronologically.

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