Is there really a need for the ammount of Crowd Control in the game now????

[Deleted]

Hello fellow WoW'ers. I've never felt the need to post on forums before. I read forums from time to time to check things out and read up on what's hot and what's not etc. But this last couple of months, (although through Cataclysm I felt this a bit too), I've noticed the amount of CC now seems to be a little bit out of control. With certain classes having a far bigger advantage than others.

What's brought me to post is that last night we were in a match against a Frost Mage/Resto druid (2vs2 but only for fun, which didn't turn out to be much fun). It was unreal. We managed to kill the mage just as they killed my Priest. Then after 4-5 minutes of trying to catch the Druid to kill it, with many cyclones/roots etc the Druid must've thought it had had enough and went kitty and completely destroyed our Warrior and I just couldn't believe it, I felt so powerless and useless.

I do feel the game needs CC. What i'm getting at is the amount of quickly spammable CC with very little DR making any difference in Arenas that is now completely ruining the fun/competitive nature of Arena. What i'm noticing is pretty much every Arena match now seems to be revolved around being constantly sheeped/hexed/cycloned/feared/stunned/froze/silenced etc etc. Meaning i'm sat for nearly the entire match watching my team mates being bashed with nothing I can do about it. I've been PvPing for a long time and prefer PvP to raiding. I know how to use LoS and pillar hump etc but it seems pointless as eventually you get caught and once caught that's it.

I'm becoming disillusioned as to Blizzards motives for PvP, especially when I read some blue posts and they say they're happy there *isn't* too much CC in the game. I've played Warcraft since vanilla and have never felt so frustrated than I do now. I feel like i'm playing without actually playing if that makes sense, and I have no clue what to do when constantly CC'd until the game is lost except maybe give up.

I also think healers are far too strong. I have a Disc Priest and Holy Paladin. While the Priest is ok its far behind what the Paladin is capable of. I feel like my Priest is a sitting duck while the Paladin hardly gets phased when subjected to the same sort of treatment..

I really don't know what to think about PvP anymore.. Btw Sorry for the *rant* as they say lol

[TJ]

Yeah, there is too much. Blizzard doesn't help with some of the changes they do, some classes seem to have everything whereas others are gimped for what seems like forever. It feels to me as if they don't try to balance PvP as best they can and some changes are really questionable. PvP will always have problems like this until they separate the abilities in PvE and PvP, then they can properly have an attempt at balancing it without needing to worry about the other side of the game.

Judging by your name I'm guessing you are Welsh? ;D

[Deleted]

I am indeed a Welshy as you are too by your location? and as a Welshy i'm rather passionate about things
I feel though like there is no hope of things becoming balanced and skill based again. It would take someone at /blizzard with a HUGE set of um you know to make some drastic changes but it would probably upset the easy riders out there lol. I don't even use the trinket anymore as of last week as it's pretty useless now. I just don't know what to do

[Ziene]

Hello fellow WoW'ers. I've never felt the need to post on forums before. I read forums from time to time to check things out and read up on what's hot and what's not etc. But this last couple of months, (although through Cataclysm I felt this a bit too), I've noticed the amount of CC now seems to be a little bit out of control. With certain classes having a far bigger advantage than others.

What's brought me to post is that last night we were in a match against a Frost Mage/Resto druid (2vs2 but only for fun, which didn't turn out to be much fun). It was unreal. We managed to kill the mage just as they killed my Priest. Then after 4-5 minutes of trying to catch the Druid to kill it, with many cyclones/roots etc the Druid must've thought it had had enough and went kitty and completely destroyed our Warrior and I just couldn't believe it, I felt so powerless and useless.

I do feel the game needs CC. What i'm getting at is the amount of quickly spammable CC with very little DR making any difference in Arenas that is now completely ruining the fun/competitive nature of Arena. What i'm noticing is pretty much every Arena match now seems to be revolved around being constantly sheeped/hexed/cycloned/feared/stunned/froze/silenced etc etc. Meaning i'm sat for nearly the entire match watching my team mates being bashed with nothing I can do about it. I've been PvPing for a long time and prefer PvP to raiding. I know how to use LoS and pillar hump etc but it seems pointless as eventually you get caught and once caught that's it.

I'm becoming disillusioned as to Blizzards motives for PvP, especially when I read some blue posts and they say they're happy there *isn't* too much CC in the game. I've played Warcraft since vanilla and have never felt so frustrated than I do now. I feel like i'm playing without actually playing if that makes sense, and I have no clue what to do when constantly CC'd until the game is lost except maybe give up.

I also think healers are far too strong. I have a Disc Priest and Holy Paladin. While the Priest is ok its far behind what the Paladin is capable of. I feel like my Priest is a sitting duck while the Paladin hardly gets phased when subjected to the same sort of treatment..

I really don't know what to think about PvP anymore.. Btw Sorry for the *rant* as they say lol

I wanted to add some information to this, someone asked about this issue today in WoW forums (posted from Nakatoir):
With regards to crowd control, we don't really feel like there is too much of it, right now. We feel that CC is integral to PvP because without it battles simply become about tunneling and burst cooldowns. This is actually another situation where the question is touched on in a bit more detail in the "Ask the Devs — The Answers" blog which we plan to post tomorrow. So be sure to keep your eyes open for that

So, apparently we will hear more news to how this is going to be effected soon. Personally I agree. I play feral (as linked in my sig) and feel that giving players too much CC to just "hit" because it there and not learn to use it well is a mistake, but I can also see that as survival as well. For me:

Fears - not much to say about that, I feel locks and priest or too OP on this. I just BS through this and try to interrupt when I can.
Roots - no brainer, i just shift out
stuns - well, I have a secret "use" I can use that's on a 60sec CD (can't say, you have to research the hint I gave there)
trinket - use when I need I get another stun, sleep, etc.. on me

I guess for me, it's just a matter of knowing what you have and how you can handle it. I BG alot (not that it helps the issue for RBG or arena), but I have to deal with players that will send like 5-7 kinds off cc on me. I just learned over time that as I pvp (based on players, class, etc) to handle this the best way I can. For now, just take each game as a learned experience, do what you and your partner(s) have. That's all you can do.

[Deleted]

I don't know if it's really the amount of cc. What I find most disturbing is how easy it is to do. Nowadays most of it is instant/30+yards range on a short cooldown without any resource cost or with failsafe mechanics (double grip). You can't even range or los or somehow avoid most of the dumb stuff.

This is probably more what i'm aiming at I think. Like when we were against Druid/Mage combos. Hiding doesn't work. Druid will stealth and knock you away from pillar or force you to move etc, mage then sheeps or freezes, druid then cyclones followed by more sheeps/freezes/silences/roots/cyclones etc etc meaning its very rare that your able to get away to safety meaning your almost totally exposed for the entire 3-4 minutes that the arena battle usually lasts because its an endless stream of constant CC lol.

As a priest I have absolutely no range ability to counter this. Mana Burn was amazing for making other mana users think about how to handle a priest, but its now gone. now I feel im a big bullseye with a notice board saying "please CC me forever or kill me quick" hehe. Every other healer has numerous range CC abilities too. tbh I don't think healers should have any CC.

[Illiterate]

It was bad in cata and it's a lot worse now. Either more of the cc needs to share dr or they need to remove a lot (more than half) of it.

[Crym]

I don't know if it's really the amount of cc. What I find most disturbing is how easy it is to do. Nowadays most of it is instant/30+yards range on a short cooldown without any resource cost or with failsafe mechanics (double grip). You can't even range or los or somehow avoid most of the dumb stuff.

I don't know if it's even the ease of use. Ultimately, DR should be the penalty, but because everyone dies (and heals) so fast in WoW PvP by the time DR really start to be a consideration the important people are dead.

That's one reason I loved SWTOR PvP so much (pre-50 especially). Healers needed to focus a person for a while to get their health up (not 1-2 spells to fill a bar) and damage needed about as long to empty it. That meant that there was time to be CC'd until your resolve kicked in and still be alive (at 50 where gear started to differentiate people more this wasn't always the case).

For people who used CC as a "I can kill you without actually fighting you!" mechanic they'd cap out your resolve right away and you could stomp them into the ground by CC'ing just at the right time to keep them from escaping/healing/etc... when they needed to.

[Brouhaha]

The problem isn't the amount of CC, it's how there's no play/counterplay involved. The sheer amount of CC wouldn't be bad if there were an equal amount of ways that you, as a player, could counter attempted CC (I say attempted, because as far as I'm concerned, if the game is designed properly, successful CC should be rewarded--but the game isn't designed properly). As it is, there is a.) a ton of CC options, both in number of CC abilities given to a class, and the low cooldowns of such abilities, b.) far too much of the CC is instant/uncounterable, c.) the reward for countering counterable CC is negligible because of a.), meaning that a class will soon just pump out more uncounterable CC on you. It's a vicious cycle.

Personally I think removing CC outright is a bad idea at this point. That ship has sailed. What would probably be a better solution is to change the DR system and group certain CC DR's based on their effectiveness at shutting down a player.

That, and change the way the goddamn PvP trinket works already. For fuck's sake blizzard, being able to trinket one CC every 2 minutes made sense in TBC, but this is MoP. I think something like a "charge" system could work well for it, like some other trinkets have--essentially, every time you get CC'd some way, you get "x" charges. A snare might give one charge, a stun, two, etc. You can save up to "y" charges, and it costs "z" charges to activate your trinket and break the current CC on you. That way you can't just blow your trinket instantly, and you get more of an effect the more of a victim you are to control effects. Hell, they could even make the charges on your trinket only last so long, so that potentially aware players could strategically take that into account when deciding whether or not to CC someone.

[Deleted]

That, and change the way the goddamn PvP trinket works already. For fuck's sake blizzard, being able to trinket one CC every 2 minutes made sense in TBC, but this is MoP. I think something like a "charge" system could work well for it, like some other trinkets have--essentially, every time you get CC'd some way, you get "x" charges. A snare might give one charge, a stun, two, etc. You can save up to "y" charges, and it costs "z" charges to activate your trinket and break the current CC on you. That way you can't just blow your trinket instantly, and you get more of an effect the more of a victim you are to control effects. Hell, they could even make the charges on your trinket only last so long, so that potentially aware players could strategically take that into account when deciding whether or not to CC someone.

Yes hehe. I don't bother with the trinket anymore as I find it pretty darn useless because once used your just CCd again anyway. 2 min cd?? lol some matches don't even last that long. A charge build up trinket sounds like a good idea though, and maybe make you immune to CC for a short while meaning clever use of CC is then needed not just mindless spamming of CC. And yes also matches are normally long finished before any sign of DR is seen.

[Wow]

Yes theres to much cc but theres also to much burst dmg and burst healing so the cc has to stay until both of those are fixed. Which with that much needing fixing means it won't happen until 6.0.

[Kegler]

It is really frustrating spending over 50% of the time in an arena match CC'd with no way out of it.

[Rorke]

Nobody in this thread understands why the amount of CC is necessary in this game when there's too much damage, healing, off healing, defensive cool downs, and dispels. Nerfing one aspect of the game won't make everything balanced. If you nerf CC or buff the trinket, you basically need to overhaul the rest of the mechanics in this game. In the end, it won't even be the same game anymore.

[TJ]

Nobody in this thread understands why the amount of CC is necessary in this game when there's too much damage, healing, off healing, defensive cool downs, and dispels. Nerfing one aspect of the game won't make everything balanced. If you nerf CC or buff the trinket, you basically need to overhaul the rest of the mechanics in this game. In the end, it won't even be the same game anymore.

It's not necessary, not at any point. Neither is the stupid burst etc etc. It's just lack of attention to PvP from Blizzard, many problems have been around for ages and nothing has been done.

[Deleted]

Problem in my opnion is that all the cc healing dmg is spammable. At one point it was caster ( healer/dps) versus melee, melee could interrupt but with kiting etc, casters could get their spells off healer or spelldd both needed to cast, also melee did not have the same mobility. Then the forums happened so dk's needed a silence, warriors needed loads of mobility, warlocks needed blood fear and so on and so on. Blizz then thought it was okay to just give in since at some point everyone is gonna have enough cc. But lets be honest folks:

Cyclone no dr ( edit: mean shares no dr with other similar cc's, otw bring banish back to tree form ^^)
Rogues being able to open with 3 stuns while dealing dmg
Cooldown resetting cooldonws
Instant cc
Interrupts that cost no resources.
Fears that dont break
Symbiosis

And probably a whole other list of things i dont think about right now just break the game.

If blizz wants pvp to count again, lets reintroduce resources, I still fake cast and even if its succesfull i still get blanketed or stunned. Going offensive or defenisve should require rp, mana, cast time, energy, focus, rage something there is currently no tradeoff to actually spamming cc's, so even if i know some tard rogues rotation in the opener i still get gimped. So in all bring casts back to pvp, make cc cost significant resources and let melee be melee and casters be casters, also imo having more cc should mean you do less damage also being a hybrid should mean you do less damage atleats in pvp. where is the logic in giving every class more or less similar dmg output but then just leave other classes without anything classes like mage, rogue, hunter have too much dmg for their amount of cc, dk's have too much dmg for their healing, sp's have too much utility with md and void shift( ofc it gets nerfed unlike the above classes). We need to go back to a pvp that requires strategy. For all I care they make a special PVP talent tier with 1 cc people have to take and remove default cc's, also 1 snare root and 1 snare root/cc breaker. This will require some actual playing and skill .

What also really annoys me is that you cannot gain immunity to stuns but you can to fears, put every cc in the same dr category and just tone the whole thing down.

[FAILoZOFF]

I have bigger problems with burst damage/healing

[Mammoon]

Need this much CC in order for all classes to have semi-equal amounts of CCs that they can throw out... or else people would complain about X, Y, and Z classes having 2-3 forms of CC when my poor class only has 1. Clearly Blizzard hates my class. We can achieve some type of balance in this game if every class has the exact same abilities, just called different things with different animations!

It doesn't help that every expansion Blizzard doesn't come up with any new damaging or healing abilities, because they don't want to change any of the class' rotations (or make them remotely complicated), so they are left with coming up with new CCs for every class.

If you compare the number of CCs per class now to the number of CCs per class there was a few expansions ago, the shear amount of time you spend in a CC during an arena match currently (especially as a healer) is insane.

[Vathius]

The problem is the constant CC (spamable CC ) that's ruining the game. eg

Cyclone
Fear
Sheep
Hex..eg

All CC's should be on a cooldown once every 30 seconds.

[mistahwilshire]

I am indeed a Welshy as you are too by your location? and as a Welshy i'm rather passionate about things
I feel though like there is no hope of things becoming balanced and skill based again. It would take someone at /blizzard with a HUGE set of um you know to make some drastic changes but it would probably upset the easy riders out there lol. I don't even use the trinket anymore as of last week as it's pretty useless now. I just don't know what to do

Just because there's a lot of CC doesn't mean it isn't skill based. It still is whether you like it or not. It's just not what you prefer.

[Dark_light_uk]

Read this and then cry.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7339594356#7

[Yvaelle]

The problem is the constant CC (spamable CC ) that's ruining the game. eg

Cyclone
Fear
Sheep
Hex..eg

All CC's should be on a cooldown once every 30 seconds.

Interesting idea actually

Hex is a 45 second cooldown, but apart from that - putting all CC on a cooldown would make CC chains more predictable and counter-able. Rather than Poly->Poly->Poly->Cyclone->Cyclone->Cyclone - if you knew the poly was out and had a 30 second cooldown, you would know to CC the druid before the poly ends to break the chain. Of course, some classes would still have many CC's they could instantly chain by themselves (ie. Counterspell->Poly->Circle->Deep Freeze->Counterspell) - but at least it would make it Less random: which would be an improvement.