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  1. #181
    I truly feel everyone's first expansion, the first expansion they experienced from close to beginning to end, is probably going to generally be the answer to the question of "what do you think the best expansion was?" TBC was mine, and I've got to say it ranks up there highly - although if I had to admit it I would say WotLK possibly outranks it, followed close on its heels by MoP itself. Cata seems like the only outlier to this, as the general opinion was that it was probably the weakest expansion overall - but you'll still find people who started playing WoW in Cata have a lot of good things to say about it (LFR, Firelands, and even the zone quest-lines). My personal ranking is WotLK => TBC => MoP > Cata, and I won't say Cata was terrible it just stands as the weakest in the list of good additions to the game.
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  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    not to mention if OP stops living in nostalgic la-la land then perhaps he can see epic moments in this current expansion.
    You didn't even finish all the dungeons before WOTLK came out, why should your opinion be valid?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ment#168:14805

  3. #183
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonQShot View Post
    I wish they could find a way to bring that feeling back... I think if we all compromise, there can be a middle point where people who are noobs still have the chance to experience lets say the first raid tier, than casuals can go to up until the 2nd and only hardcore players would have access to the final tier. I know i'm far from being explanatory here but this is just my general understanding of this issue...
    Nostalgia is something that isn't easily returned, and Nostalgia is the primary reason I think people like BC currently.
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  4. #184
    Stood in the Fire Zantera's Avatar
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    It's rather silly to find excuses or reasons for people liking something. Some people like TBC the most, some people like MoP the most, and so on. People who say things like "you only like TBC because of nostalgia" are just stupid. There are other reasons for liking something you know. The question regarding everyone's favorite expansion is not a question of facts, and therefor there is no right or wrong answer.
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  5. #185
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonQShot View Post
    I wish they could find a way to bring that feeling back... I think if we all compromise, there can be a middle point where people who are noobs still have the chance to experience lets say the first raid tier, than casuals can go to up until the 2nd and only hardcore players would have access to the final tier. I know i'm far from being explanatory here but this is just my general understanding of this issue...
    ...which automatically means, that feeling is brought back for a handful of people.

    There are now literally 3 guilds, 80 people who have killed Ra-Den. 3000 guilds...50 000 people in Hardmodes. Your suggestion automatically excludes a couple of million players. Who ofc couldn't think of this being epic, because they don't get to see it.

    ...and it would get better with the last tier. I even kinda know what I am talking about: Progressed from Kara to BT in current content, but couldn't even get Kalecgos in SWP. We had one guild on the server who eventually got Brutallus.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 04:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    People who say things like "you only like TBC because of nostalgia" are just stupid.
    ...idd - as are people who say "If you liked Cata most, your opinion is automatically disqualified"....
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  6. #186
    Bloodsail Admiral DonQShot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Nostalgia is something that isn't easily returned, and Nostalgia is the primary reason I think people like BC currently.
    yh it is in part that, but in my case at least, I think WOW has lost a LOT of epicness through generalizing content access for players.
    Now everyone can have a tier set and that takes away the sense of exclusivity that BC and Vanilla had... Sure there is still heroic armour but who can tell the difference really when it comes to the looks of it?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 03:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    ...which automatically means, that feeling is brought back for a handful of people.

    There are now literally 3 guilds, 80 people who have killed Ra-Den. 3000 guilds...50 000 people in Hardmodes. Your suggestion automatically excludes a couple of million players. Who ofc couldn't think of this being epic, because they don't get to see it.
    The word EPIC is being tossed around and loosing all of its meaning by people who unfortunately nowadays can't be bothered with anything. Instant gratification is what they crave but for that there are other games. WOW was the pioneer of epic games because people had to dedicate themselves a bit to the game and when they achieved something they genuinely felt great amongst other players.
    But I'm not saying TBC and Vanilla were perfect, I am just saying we went from one extreme to the other.

  7. #187
    No I don't think so. But it isn't necessarily nostalgia either. It's more got to do with the fact that the game was still "new" and I have the feeling I will indeed have those epic moments again with another game but not in WoW.

  8. #188
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    I felt Northrend was far more immerse than Outland and that WotLK's storyline was substantially more cohesive than TBC's was.
    This for me as well. In Wrath I felt like my character was part of a great charge to break down the doors to ICC and confront the Lich King. It was, by far, the most I've felt "involved" in the world. There were a lot of things that I didn't like, mechanically, about Wrath (healing without concern for mana was really lame, in my opinion) but if I'm voting entirely on how immersive an expansion is Wrath goes on the top.

  9. #189
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Whether or not something is epic is a purely personal thing. I agree with Aucald that how one views the 'epicness' of any expansion depends largely on when you arrived at the game. Add in the element of time passing and the inevitable nostalgia for when things were new and there you go.

    Just a personal opinion: Blizzard uses the words 'awesome' and 'epic' all the damn time and they should really stop that. It cheapens the words for one thing and usually raises expectations up to a point where they can't be easily met.
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  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Nostalgia is something that isn't easily returned, and Nostalgia is the primary reason I think people like BC currently.
    Nostalgia is an easy blanket statement like casuals or noobs. While I think some people fall into those categories, more people don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    ...idd - as are people who say "If you liked Cata most, your opinion is automatically disqualified"....
    Yes, I said that earlier. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But this is the internet after all where stupid comments meet glee filled rebuttals. For example, people have the right to say industrial strength glue is more delicious than ice cream. However, this response makes me question the person's mental makeup to make such an awkward, declarative statement. That's how I feel about players saying Cata is better than BC.

    This thread may not have swayed people who weren't keen on how "epic" BC was but I think the vast majority have shown throughout the thread that Cata was the worst.
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    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  11. #191
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Serious? Cata was the worst by far.

    Easily Wrath > BC > Vanilla = MOP > Cata
    Actually no. Even if we're looking at ONLY "epic" moments, Cataclysm wins out. We aren't talking about overall expansion vs overall expansion. BC was only good for its time. Cataclysm, both from a mechanics standpoint and an "epic" standpoint is better. And Cataclysm is very average.

    Yes, I said that earlier. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But this is the internet after all where stupid comments meet glee filled rebuttals. For example, people have the right to say industrial strength glue is more delicious than ice cream. However, this response makes me question the person's mental makeup to make such an awkward, declarative statement. That's how I feel about players saying Cata is better than BC.
    Or maybe we're able to look at things rationally and not emotionally. Oh, and not with nostalgia glasses.

    Keep calling us stupid or disqualifying our opinions or whatnot, though. Really makes me want to take your side.

    This thread may not have swayed people who weren't keen on how "epic" BC was but I think the vast majority have shown throughout the thread that Cata was the worst.
    Yeah, there's a reason why nobody takes what the general populace of MMO-Champion as any serious indication of anything. Its like Reddit. It's based solely on emotion.

    As a final statement, I find it funny people say that BC raids were epic. Really? Karazhan was probably the only one, perhaps the Magtheridon fight and you can throw Kael's fight in it too. Illidan was killed, really, at the middleish of the expansion and then Blizzard scrambled to make sure the story of the expansion wasn't totally ruined. When your expansion's supposed-key villain is overshadowed not only by Kil'jaeden, but Kael'thas too, then you failed.

    Hyjal as well deserves a special place in hell. Totally unoriginal boss fights except for Archimonde spaced throughout just waves of trash.

    I wonder how many people who say that BC was so awesome actually played it during its time and not after. Imbalanced classes, stupid gating for heroics and raids, nonsensical storyline changes, gutting the expansion villain halfway through the expac, ect.

    I'll say it again, BC was good for its time. But its time is far passed.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-04-19 at 04:47 PM.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Or maybe we're able to look at things rationally and not emotionally. Oh, and not with nostalgia glasses.

    Keep calling us stupid or disqualifying our opinions or whatnot, though. Really makes me want to take your side.



    Yeah, there's a reason why nobody takes what the general populace of MMO-Champion as any serious indication of anything. Its like Reddit. It's based solely on emotion.
    Yes, you come off rational and emotionless in your post. I'm not here to get you on my side. Unlike Vanilla, BC, or Wrath there is tangible evidence via the massive sub losses of what players thought of Cata.

    I really enjoyed the beginning of Cata since Tier 11 and pre-nerfed heroics were AWESOME imo. After that though... Firelands was too short, DS was just awful, LFR's implementation was poorly executed, and Deathwing's encounters were maybe the biggest disappointment I've had in WoW.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Illidan was killed, really, at the middleish of the expansion and then Blizzard scrambled to make sure the story of the expansion wasn't totally ruined. When your expansion's supposed-key villain is overshadowed not only by Kil'jaeden, but Kael'thas too, then you failed.
    I'm sure the WoW community would be up in arms if after SoO Blizz said, "We have more time to kill so we're releasing a final lore oriented raid/patch involving N'Zoth." How dare they give us more content with a bigger lore character!!!!!! And I would say the key villain in Cata was greatly over hyped and grossly underwhelming compared to Illidan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
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    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    Yes, you come off rational and emotionless in your post. I'm not here to get you on my side. Unlike Vanilla, BC, or Wrath there is tangible evidence via the massive sub losses of what players thought of Cata.

    I really enjoyed the beginning of Cata since Tier 11 and pre-nerfed heroics were AWESOME imo. After that though... Firelands was too short, DS was just awful, LFR's implementation was poorly executed, and Deathwing's encounters were maybe the biggest disappointment I've had in WoW.



    I'm sure the WoW community would be up in arms if after SoO Blizz said, "We have more time to kill so we're releasing a final lore oriented raid/patch involving N'Zoth." How dare they give us more content with a bigger lore character!!!!!! And I would say the key villain in Cata was greatly over hyped and grossly underwhelming compared to Illidan.
    Yeah. Regardless of whether or not blizz initially intended to do a Sunwell raid at the end of BC, the story was far from filler, if blood elf centric. It concluded the storyline of the Sunwell trilogy, and had great consequences for the blood elf race. Not sure I believe it but I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that sunwell was going to be a Wrath entry raid featuring the blue dragonflight, but that they needed more content for bc and changed it into a Legion raid and altered the story, releasing it in BC and forcing them to redo naxx as they didn't have time for a new raid from the ground up to be ready.

  14. #194
    Nothing will ever come close to the Illidan speech or the ZA Trailer.
    Is it the best expansion, no not even close.
    Does it have the best lore, nope. Thats Wrath
    Does it have the best raids, nope. Thats Wrath again.

    But you saw Lich King to much in that expansion, like the first thing you saw when you came to Northrend was Arthas. It just wasnt as epic when you killed him.

  15. #195
    Observation: The definition of the word 'epic' is much different for those of us who began in classic and those who began later. To me epic in classic meant more than pretty cutscenes, or disfigured land.

    Epic in vanilla were world bosses getting kited to capitals and killing everybody and sight, forcing a GM to step in. Dozens of level 1 Gnomes "raiding" Hogger. The size of the world seemed epic, every raid boss felt epic, getting level 60 and a few blues kinda felt pretty damn epic.

    Later, as "epic" stuff became kind of commonplace it takes on a new meaning.

    In my opinion Wrath was the most epic because of the collection of all things considered epic. Awesome zones, great use of phasing (in a story-telling sense), Ulduar, cool cut scenes, fighting LK, Ulduar... Really the only things that I didn't like was the length of the expansion and Trial of the Crusader.

  16. #196
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peroxidex View Post
    You didn't even finish all the dungeons before WOTLK came out, why should your opinion be valid?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ment#168:14805
    Um. The achievement system wasn't implemented until the pre-Wrath patch, and that achievement credit wasn't granted retroactively except in specific circumstances. A great deal of people probably ended up without credit for BC dungeons they had completed since they completed them before achievements were implemented.
    Last edited by Tziva; 2013-04-19 at 05:56 PM.
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  17. #197
    I tend to agree with the OP, but I may be looking back with rose colored glasses as many have said due to the fact that Vanilla was mostly leveling for me so TBC was my first true experience playing end game. My thoughts in no particular order (many of these features still exist today, but were novel at the time).

    1. Kara -- This was many people's introduction to raiding and it was a masterpiece.
    2. Heroic 5 Mans -- Working through regular dungeons to earn rep to challenge very difficult (especially early on) heroics was amazingly fun.
    3. Flying Mounts -- At the time they were novel and gave everyone a new way to explore.
    4. Arena -- I hate arena personally, but arena was a much loved addition to the game for many people.
    5. Gear -- Quest rewards were meaningful and made you feel like you were progressing as you leveled. Vanilla quest rewards were more or less useless.
    6. Badges -- For the first time, if you couldn't get a drop, raiders (and raiders only at that time) could supplement their gear with badge gear.
    8. Isle of Q -- The first daily quest hub which included an epic raid, an epic dungeon, meaningful rep gear and world PvP.
    9. Crafting -- Epic BOP recipies like Frozen Shadow Weave and the Alchemy Trinket made crafting a lot of fun for the first time.
    10. Tier Tokens -- This prevented Tier gear from being wasted.

  18. #198
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    I liked Wotlk more then BC, its all subjective with a fair bit of nostalgia thrown in.

  19. #199
    Scarab Lord Azutael's Avatar
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    TBC was among the worst expansions for me personally, different people like different things. Who would have known!?
    Granted entering the dark portal for the first time is among my most "woah!" moments in WoW ever.

    WotLK is so far the expansion I have liked the most, no surprise. Ever since wc3 I have waited to see that story finished, my biggest complaint about WotLK was azjol'nerub, they wasted such a nice opportunity there.
    If I with hindsight ignore mechanics, bugs and whatnot from classic. Then that's the best content I have had so far in WoW. Obviously when I look back it wasn't all that great, but at least I had a blast. And that feeling will likely never come back.

  20. #200
    The Lightbringer
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    TBC and WOTLK were fun, for me mop is so boring its causing me to slowly quit the game.

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