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  1. #41
    Scarab Lord Granyala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I would also question the argument for skipping content. I could understand it if you’re close to the end of an expansion and you want to see the latest content before it “expires”, but otherwise, you’re just skipping on a lot of entertainment value. Personally, I still am quite fond of those old Kara alt-runs even when we were doing BT with mains. Having a path that you have to follow to evolve your characters is a good thing, too much skipping just devalues content even faster, content that could otherwise be a source of great entertainment. Personally it makes me a bit sad inside to see all that old content being somehow wasted away, what was once the glory and jewel of each of the previous expansions’ PvE content shines now somehow a little less bright and has devalued in a way that makes it almost obsolete, I only wish we could one day make all that content available for everyone to experience again the way it was designed to be experienced in a seamless fashion. Oh well, blues can get nostalgic and dream too you know.
    Aye, very true indeed.

    Personally I dislike racing the clock in challenge modes. I like difficult stuff that takes a tactical approach and thinking to beat. Just "rush rush rush oh ma gawd clock is tickin'!" is... well... a boring kind of hard, if that makes sense.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kipling View Post
    Haha the ooze soaked shirt definitely screams 'I am Ironman' =D
    might have to get involved with the brawlers thing just for that!
    try to get them without the brawlers guild...this models are ALL old classic models of grey/white/green armors exept this epic blood thingie.
    Last edited by Pion; 2013-04-19 at 12:56 PM.

  3. #43
    High Overlord McLockhart's Avatar
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    The whole deal with first removing Fs' achievement is a scandal in my eyes. You have six people who who are dedicated to help a guild member to reach lvl 90 as fast as possible and you end up removing the achievement from the person? No bugs were used, but simply the same principle that has been used to get World First achievements since WotLK. What kind of responsible company treat their customers like that?

    And now they're restoring the achievement to him? Why on earth are Blizzard discussing a matter of an achievement from when MoP was launched? How can such a matter take seven months to discuss? I don't suppose they've given him a refund equal to the extra time he had to grind from 87-90 again?

    I've already unsubscribed from the game, but this is just another nail in the coffin that will make sure I'll never resubscribe.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by McLockhart View Post
    And now they're restoring the achievement to him? Why on earth are Blizzard discussing a matter of an achievement from when MoP was launched? How can such a matter take seven months to discuss? I don't suppose they've given him a refund equal to the extra time he had to grind from 87-90 again?
    I think it's fair to assume it was mentioned a few times, possibly one of those things that just sits at the of meeting agendas. Someone finally said let's restore the achievement, no one objected so there we have it.

    A much more plausible suggestion than it being the "The hot topic" for debate for the past six months. As for a refund it would only have taken several hours to level from 87-90, that's not even a Euro of game time. Anyway whether Fs got any form of compensation as either time or ingame reward is between them and Blizzard, it doesn't affect us in the slightest.

    For the record I don't understand why the achievement was ever removed, if someone wants to go all out for something that means little to everyone else in the World (and of Warcraft) then let them. If they used clever mechanics which let's face it anyone chasing these firsts will do then so long as it isn't blatent exploitation or required use of a bot then it's legitimate.
    Last edited by Blaiz; 2013-04-19 at 01:41 PM.

  5. #45
    Herald of the Titans UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    While yes, it probably kinds sucked to have the achievement taken away, I don't understand why some of you seem to be taking it so personal :S Some of you act like Blizzard deleted your account, banned you for life and then came round to your house to destroy your PC/Laptop to make sure you've couldn't even try to play. I mean, quitting because some random person got an achievement taken from them? Come on...

    For the record, it was pretty shitty to have it taken away from him. And I'm glad he has it back. I don't think he quit playing though. I think he just plays other toons, maybe?

  6. #46
    Hahahah. I bet that Fs dude has whined to Blizzard for months about it. Sad sad kid.

  7. #47
    High Overlord McLockhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaiz View Post
    I think it's fair to assume it was mentioned a few times, possibly one of those things that just sits at the of meeting agendas. Someone finally said let's restore the achievement, no one objected so there we have it.
    I don't know. If you're raising a topic that was worthwhile seven months ago you really have run out of topics to discuss at the meeting. I highly doubts it's just a "hey, lets vote on bringing the achievement back to this player".

    Alright, you punish the player by setting him back three levels and remove the achievement. That is one thing. But to add insult to injury you suddenly and out of the blue decide to restore the achievement seven months later? I'd feel downright provoked if I was in Fs' place. From what I can see from his account achievements he has stopped playing. Now Blizzard is basically saying that they reverse the whole thing and expect that a "We're sorry" will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaiz View Post
    A much more plausible suggestion than it being the "The hot topic" for debate for the past six months. As for a refund it would only have taken several hours to level from 87-90, that's not even a Euro of game time. Anyway whether Fs got any form of compensation as either time or ingame reward is between them and Blizzard, it doesn't affect us in the slightest.
    It's not about the refund itself. It's about how the person is first told that what he has done is wrong and punished for it. You then suddenly decide that it's not wrong but you're not compensating him for the fact that you admittedly screwed up big time.
    I'd sure as hell like to know if he was compensated. I'd like to know if Blizzard will actually compensate players they punish wrongfully. In that way it does actually concern the player base and it would suit Blizzard and its PR.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    While yes, it probably kinds sucked to have the achievement taken away, I don't understand why some of you seem to be taking it so personal :S Some of you act like Blizzard deleted your account, banned you for life and then came round to your house to destroy your PC/Laptop to make sure you've couldn't even try to play. I mean, quitting because some random person got an achievement taken from them? Come on...
    What this is about is that Blizzard has just shown that even though you've done something wrongful and might be subject to punishment for this, it may not be wrong after a few months and they'll change their mind. You've still been punished though. So basically you're getting punished for something others might not be, even though they've done the exact same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    For the record, it was pretty shitty to have it taken away from him. And I'm glad he has it back. I don't think he quit playing though. I think he just plays other toons, maybe?
    From what I can see in his achievements he has stopped playing on that account. Not that I blame him
    Last edited by McLockhart; 2013-04-19 at 03:57 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I don't understand why some of you seem to be taking it so personal.
    It's the idea that their stuff can just as easily be taken from them for no reason and therefore to not want to associate with such things.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    Emm kind of confused what you want then...

    You want all the things that challenge modes offer.

    But you want mobs to scale up not gear down.

    You know that is technically a lot more challenging right, how would you scale mobs if you had a 530 geared tank and a 463 geared healer for example? I think your getting pretty picky tbh.

    And you want them to be popular. Does the fact they are not popular tell you something?

    Or are you telling me you think the main reason Challenge modes are not popular is that the gear scales down and the mobs don't scale up?
    im just saying its not popular enough and i personally dont like how gear scales down, nothing more. Back in tbc everyone was like LFM daily heroic, just wanted that feeling back. Maybe the game has changed too much after all and it couldnt be like the way it was anymore

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    Emm kind of confused what you want then...

    You want all the things that challenge modes offer.

    But you want mobs to scale up not gear down.

    You know that is technically a lot more challenging right, how would you scale mobs if you had a 530 geared tank and a 463 geared healer for example? I think your getting pretty picky tbh.

    And you want them to be popular. Does the fact they are not popular tell you something?

    Or are you telling me you think the main reason Challenge modes are not popular is that the gear scales down and the mobs don't scale up?
    Seriously, it's not that hard to figure out why people don't run them.

    You get dress up gear. Who cares about that stuff when you can go transmog anything esp when the sets are not even that cool.

    People like to run hard shit and actually get a reward and a sense of accomplishment.

    I loved running heroics in BC because they were difficult. I have zero desire to run a challenge made for no stat dress up gear.

  11. #51
    I really wish Blizzard would get off this whole thing with 5-man dungeons competing for resources with raids. Nevermind the fact that they should have enough money to employ two fully staffed teams to create good content for both (which they should)... They don't even need to create totally new 5-mans, they just need to use what they've already created more effectively. Here's how:

    1. Make all current heroic 5-mans normal mode (since they aren't heroic in difficulty anyways), keep the same current rewards, and keep them in the LFD system.

    2. Create a tuned up version of all current 5-man dungeons to an actual Heroic mode (Challenge mode difficulty or higher), have it reward the same drops from LFR including Legendary quest items and more Valor, and remove from the LFD tool. Each patch bump up the difficulty in proportion to the increased ilevels of gear, and change loot to the next LFR tier level.

    3. Keep Challenge modes in for people who aren't annoyed by timed runs and want the transmog/bragging rights.

    Now you have made a ton more people happy who want challenging 5-man content, but don't like the race/timed aspect of Challenge modes. You have added back to the sense of server community since people actually have to speak to each other to form heroic groups, and you have given people who hate LFR a way to get the same items without having to run it. LFR is now purely a way to "experience the raid content" for people who don't like normal raids, which was the stated purpose of it in the first place. The above places almost no additional development stress on the team, is sustainable, and takes nothing away from players who already enjoy the current system.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    Hahahah. I bet that Fs dude has whined to Blizzard for months about it. Sad sad kid.
    Hahaahahah i bet he didn't.

  13. #53
    Brewmaster Alayea's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Taepsilum (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    I would also question the argument for skipping content. I could understand it if you’re close to the end of an expansion and you want to see the latest content before it “expires”, but otherwise, you’re just skipping on a lot of entertainment value. Personally, I still am quite fond of those old Kara alt-runs even when we were doing BT with mains. Having a path that you have to follow to evolve your characters is a good thing, too much skipping just devalues content even faster, content that could otherwise be a source of great entertainment. Personally it makes me a bit sad inside to see all that old content being somehow wasted away, what was once the glory and jewel of each of the previous expansions’ PvE content shines now somehow a little less bright and has devalued in a way that makes it almost obsolete, I only wish we could one day make all that content available for everyone to experience again the way it was designed to be experienced in a seamless fashion. Oh well, blues can get nostalgic and dream too you know.
    For the "skipping out on entertainment" part: That is how it's always been.

    I started playing sometime in 2006, but I didn't "get serious" until sometime around the Sunwell patch. I enjoyed raiding in Karazhan with my new guild, but I was unhappy, among other things, to lose out on the attunement titles because I'd been late to the party. When Wrath of the Lich King was announced, I promised myself that I would not lose out on content during that expansion like I had in classic WoW and TBC - and I kept it.

    I was especially happy when tier-skipping was introduced in WotLK, as I personally felt it to be a huge QoL change. No more having to run outdated raid content just to get to the next one! And around that time I was also becoming an "altoholic", so it was a major plus for my other characters and not just my main.

    But now... I don't see any "replay" value here. Sure, Blizzard is plenty guilty of stretching out content and who could blame them for that? It's just with Mists of Pandaria, there's no "icing" to dress up said stretched content. My goodness, it seems as if Diablo III bled over into World of Warcraft in some respects! (Those of you who have played both games should know what I'm talking about.)

    With a final note to Taepsilum, I give you this old quote from no one else but Mr. Crab himself when he was responding to another post commenting on how tier-skipping was handled:
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)
    I'm not sure you feel this way, but typically the response is "I walked uphill in the snow, so they should have to as well." You got to the content first. You were showing off your tier set and Shadowmourne in Dalaran before those others guys. Why does it matter if they will eventually be able to catch up to you (especially since you'll pull ahead again the second a new raid is available)? The alternative is saying that those players should want to run through every raid tier before they can hit the new stuff, but I can tell you that whether or not they want to (and many don't) the facts suggest that they never finish and give up on raiding.

    We're not really trying to keep Black Temple or Sunwell alive at this point, and by the same token, we're okay if Naxx has basically been reduced to achievements or weekly raid quests. It had its time in the sun. We don't need to prop it up forever.

    Darn shame Blizzard changed their mind in this regard.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by McLockhart View Post
    It's not about the refund itself. It's about how the person is first told that what he has done is wrong and punished for it. You then suddenly decide that it's not wrong but you're not compensating him for the fact that you admittedly screwed up big time.
    I'd sure as hell like to know if he was compensated. I'd like to know if Blizzard will actually compensate players they punish wrongfully. In that way it does actually concern the player base and it would suit Blizzard and its PR.


    What this is about is that Blizzard has just shown that even though you've done something wrongful and might be subject to punishment for this, it may not be wrong after a few months and they'll change their mind. You've still been punished though. So basically you're getting punished for something others might not be, even though they've done the exact same thing.


    From what I can see in his achievements he has stopped playing on that account. Not that I blame him
    I totally agree with you about the poor way this was handled, the damage was done months ago and doing this now kind of adds insult to injury. Hitting 90 legitimately so quickly didn't give Fs any advantage, they most likely just went to bed through tiredness along with the obvious lack of four other people to run heroics with. As stated it doesn't even look like Fs has played since it happened, certainly not on that character. Blizzard will be able to tell whether or not the account is inactive but reinstating an achievement on a frozen account would be utterly pointless. If they haven't been back for six months then I doubt you could pay them to come back, I hope that is the case since they've taken the moral high ground on this one.

    As for compensation in general I'm fairly sure they do reward some once they admit to being at fault, most likely something cosmetic like a mount or pet along with any game time that may have been lost. So in reality it doesn't cost them a penny, the time was already paid for by the player and the pet/mount is just pixels that one would think they'd already have bought had they wanted it. There's no reason though for Blizzard to say how they deal with individual cases, it may be seen as good PR and applauded by some but it'll also draw criticism from other sections of the community.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by JIMM- View Post
    i hope they bring back the daily heroic dungeon quest style of daily as an alternative for Valor Points.

    U make a group within ur realm or cross realm then u fly to the dungeon, use the summon stone n zone in, like how its done in BC. Requiring proper CC on pulls n stuff and mobs actually hit hard even if u are raid geared but still doable for dungeon/LFR geared players just slightly more difficult for them.

    Requiring ppl actually need to L2P n have the realm reputation thing back again
    This is an awesome idea. Blizzard should hire this guy. They could call it Challenging Situation, or Challenge Method or something I dunno.

  16. #56
    clever use of game mechanics
    aka exploits of code weaknesses, gaming the mechanics against their clear intentions, and in general playing against the spirit of the design and pace of the content

    The race has and will always be who can find the most effective weaknesses in Blizzard's code before they patch them. It has NEVER and will never be able who can actually race through content the quickest.

    Imagine if sports were like that. Each team trying to find ways around the rules so that at the end of the game (or season if they save the most damaging exploits for the championships) they have to change the rules for next season. This is why I ignore e-sports in general. It's always about trying to break the code instead of playing the fucking game. People want to see it legitimized and televised in more places besides Korea? QUIT. CHEATING.
    Last edited by Eleveneleven; 2013-04-20 at 02:34 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    Hahahah. I bet that Fs dude has whined to Blizzard for months about it. Sad sad kid.
    You really have no idea who Fs is, cute.
    You must be someone who didn't play WoW from the start.
    Don't call someone sad if you're new and clueless.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glitch View Post
    He stopped playing when he was wrongfully de-levelled to 87.
    rage quit ftw

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