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  1. #1
    High Overlord Dizzy2k's Avatar
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    Got some questions regarding UVoLS and RPPM

    Hello fellow Warlocks and theorycrafters,

    I just had the pleasure to obtain the lei shen trinket and am now wondering, which trinket I should pair with it the best. During this process, I stumbled upon some questions that I would like to ask here with the hope that somebody can help me with them!

    First of all, I read that Cha Ye's (The Dark Animus Trinket) is best to combine with UVoLS, but I didnt find out WHY this is the case. Does it procc more often because of the 100% crit phases? If so, why would this be a dps gain, as you do not want to overwrite the crit-buffed dots with the cha-Ye's procc!?

    If Cha-Ye's is not the best combination with UVoLS, then what is and why?!

    How do I know which trinkets have an ICD and which trinkets are RPPM? Do I have to look it up on wowhead? Or are there other indicators?

    regards

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Schaendwich View Post
    How do I know which trinkets have an ICD and which trinkets are RPPM? Do I have to look it up on wowhead? Or are there other indicators?
    Some of both I suppose, if you see it proc while the proc is already up (or very very close after) it's probably RPPM but you could look it up on Wowhead as well. Short story is that every new trinket in 5.2 is RPPM except for the VP trinkets (PvE wise, at least).

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  3. #3
    well that depends on your spec, im asuming you're affliction?

  4. #4
    High Overlord Dizzy2k's Avatar
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    Im playing mainly affliction, second demo

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Paarthurnax's Avatar
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    Vision + Hydra would be my ideal pick for both demo/affliction.

    Main:Paarthurnax | Alt:Peijing | <Huge in Japan> 14/14H US#16
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  6. #6
    High Overlord Dizzy2k's Avatar
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    Still didnt get any answers on my questions

  7. #7
    Apparently Cha-Ye's is the best due to increased up time from UVLS buffed DoTs however in my experience this isn't the case; I haven't looked at logs but gut feeling tells me the up time increase is marginal at best. I'm not sure exactly how Cha-Ye's procs; if it's not based on how many Crits you have but instead just starts checking for Crits and random (RPPM) times and when you Crit it procs, then that would mean having increased Crits wouldn't increase your proc rate but instead just decrease the time it takes for each proc to occur. If that makes sense.

    Also UVLS has a rather low proc rate, and has a tendency of proccing at the absolute worst times... I will be rolling on Wush or Hydra to see if I can get a DPS increase from either of those over Cha-Ye and if I get both I will replace UVLS as well... at least until I get much more Haste.

    So I can't give you a definite answer as to which is better for UVLS, I'm using Cha-Ye's because I won it on a coin roll. Honestly I'd roll on all Trinkets for Affliction because each pair is good for specific fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schaendwich View Post
    How do I know which trinkets have an ICD and which trinkets are RPPM? Do I have to look it up on wowhead? Or are there other indicators?
    All ToT caster DPS trinkets are RPPM, IIRC Wush has a 20 sec ICD which accounts for the length of the proc so it's negligible. (I assume the reason for this is that you wouldn't want your 15 stack Wush proc being overwritten by a fresh one)

    If so, why would this be a dps gain, as you do not want to overwrite the crit-buffed dots with the cha-Ye's procc!?
    You have to refresh UA and Corr long before Agony so it is a DPS gain for those DoTs.
    Last edited by Xandy; 2013-04-19 at 08:44 PM.
    It is better to have raided and wiped, then to never have raided at all.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Xandy View Post
    Apparently Cha-Ye's is the best due to increased up time from UVLS buffed DoTs however in my experience this isn't the case; I haven't looked at logs but gut feeling tells me the up time increase is marginal at best. I'm not sure exactly how Cha-Ye's procs; if it's not based on how many Crits you have but instead just starts checking for Crits and random (RPPM) times and when you Crit it procs, then that would mean having increased Crits wouldn't increase your proc rate but instead just decrease the time it takes for each proc to occur. If that makes sense..
    RPPM trinkets that proc from crits scale directly with crit chance, if you have 30% crit chance the chance to proc is increased by 30%.

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  9. #9
    If you are MS Aff simcraft shows Wushoo/Unerring but I use Wushoo/Breath for now as I'm still waiting on another lei shen to drop to test it. Unerring is only mandatory for Demonology because of the 100% doom crits that go on for about 2 mins with the everlasting affliction glyph. Crit is a good stat for demo so Cha-Ye is a natural choice to pair up with Unerring for the static crit and I'm sure the uptime on chaye is high with doom critting every 15ish seconds. As long as you track Lei Shen and aim to keep 100% uptime on doom with perfect aim then you will notice a very substantial increase to your dps and fury gains due to the imp spawns. Also if you have 4 piece it's really nice because you will be in meta a lot and touch of chaos hits hard so being able to toss a few out during perfect aim is always fun. Cha-ye is just downright worthless for MS Affliction because of the static crit. Crit is our worst stat and you always forge out of it and you can get the same proc with a better static in Breath. Haste is our best stat so for Aff breath>chaye should be a no brainer.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    RPPM trinkets that proc from crits scale directly with crit chance, if you have 30% crit chance the chance to proc is increased by 30%.
    Technically it's not that all crit-proc RPPM trinkets do, it's that Cha-yes does. (And Cha-ye's is the only one right now, so they may do it more in the future, but it's not technically correct to assume that it'll stay that way in the future)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    RPPM trinkets that proc from crits scale directly with crit chance, if you have 30% crit chance the chance to proc is increased by 30%.
    So it's based on Crit chance, not actual Crits? That would mean the only benefit of Cha-Ye's from UVLS would be during the 4 second window that it procs?
    It is better to have raided and wiped, then to never have raided at all.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Technically it's not that all crit-proc RPPM trinkets do, it's that Cha-yes does. (And Cha-ye's is the only one right now, so they may do it more in the future, but it's not technically correct to assume that it'll stay that way in the future)
    Well, there's one (maybe two?) strength trinket that uses the same mechanic.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Xandy View Post
    So it's based on Crit chance, not actual Crits? That would mean the only benefit of Cha-Ye's from UVLS would be during the 4 second window that it procs?
    Correct.


    Well, almost. I forget exactly who, but someone proved mathematically that with their current implementation that increasing the number of tick events does increase the number of procs very, very, very slightly. So much that for most purposes it probably isn't noticable.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 04:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Well, there's one (maybe two?) strength trinket that uses the same mechanic.
    Which ones? AFAIK Cha-ye's is the only trinket that does. At the least it's the only trinket I remember them identifying as scaling artificially with crit in addition to haste in their trinket blue post a while back.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Well, almost. I forget exactly who, but someone proved mathematically that with their current implementation that increasing the number of tick events does increase the number of procs very, very, very slightly. So much that for most purposes it probably isn't noticable.
    Sounds like BoTH would be better than Cha-Ye's if not just for the Haste and the extended proc duration.
    It is better to have raided and wiped, then to never have raided at all.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Which ones?
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=94529

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  16. #16

  17. #17
    High Overlord Dizzy2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swaggajuice View Post
    If you are MS Aff simcraft shows Wushoo/Unerring but I use Wushoo/Breath for now as I'm still waiting on another lei shen to drop to test it. Unerring is only mandatory for Demonology because of the 100% doom crits that go on for about 2 mins with the everlasting affliction glyph. Crit is a good stat for demo so Cha-Ye is a natural choice to pair up with Unerring for the static crit and I'm sure the uptime on chaye is high with doom critting every 15ish seconds. As long as you track Lei Shen and aim to keep 100% uptime on doom with perfect aim then you will notice a very substantial increase to your dps and fury gains due to the imp spawns. Also if you have 4 piece it's really nice because you will be in meta a lot and touch of chaos hits hard so being able to toss a few out during perfect aim is always fun. Cha-ye is just downright worthless for MS Affliction because of the static crit. Crit is our worst stat and you always forge out of it and you can get the same proc with a better static in Breath. Haste is our best stat so for Aff breath>chaye should be a no brainer.
    Thanks for all the help!! Is there any proof for EA glyph to be a dps increase with demo and UVOLS?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Schaendwich View Post
    Thanks for all the help!! Is there any proof for EA glyph to be a dps increase with demo and UVOLS?
    Obviously its dps decrease if you can keep 100% crit doom 100% of the time on the target(s) without the glyph, but in my experience it requires you to be lucky for that to be the case. Doom is like 8% of your damage, not too big of a deal 20% more damage and the times you have normal doom on the target it's already lowering that.

    And imagine situation after opener: You have best possible doom on the target with all procs and lusts. 30 Sec later you have 60 sec on the doom left and you have Lei-Shen trinket proccing, do you want to refresh your 250k damage per tick which ticks once in 10sec and replace it with 90sec doom that ticks 80k once in 14secs. If you don't refresh and you don't get another proc for 2 mins, you will be one minute without crit doom.

    EA glyph makes it so that it reduces the time you have not 100% crit doom on the target and you can refresh it more stress freely without being too concerned about DPS loss.

  19. #19
    Demo's dots were never a huge chunk of its dmg even pre corruption nerf. The entire point of Unerring is to get imps procing off doom as much as RNG allows during the fight and the imps will carry your dmg along with being in meta for a huge duration of the fight. I can't say from experience yet but I would guess that it really doesn't matter how much int you super charged doom with on the last refresh, if you get a lei shen proc you should refresh. Obviously if you have insane RNG and get back to back procs don't worry about it but even something like 30 seconds it might be worth refreshing just for the assurance that you will not lose 30 seconds worth of imp procs. If there was a mechanic where the more doom hits for the harder the imps hit then yes waiting for supercharged dooms to run their course would be correct but sadly that's not the case. That would add another layer to the play style but IMO make it even more exciting to play.

  20. #20
    Personally, I'm running the Shado-pan rep trinket by choice. Almost every time it procs, UVLS procs shortly after because of the 8800 haste boost. As Demonology, this gives me an extra tick on Doom at 100% Crit. The only time the Int procs would be better is during the opener, imo.

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