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  1. #1

    Warrior Thoughts 5.3 PTR PvP

    Sorry if any of the following sounds moany. It's hard not to care about your favourite class. Tried to be objective.

    I'd to share some thoughts on Warriors as they stand on the 5.3PTR. I've been dueling various classes, doing some 2s and 3s arena, lots of Open world PvP, and some BGs.

    First of all, I should say that I think Warrior design is fairly archaic. Whereas many melee classes have some kind of niche, Warriors don't really. This was fine, of course, in the days when casters had to cast, Rogues were remotely vulnerable out of stealth, without some CCs, and hybrids were somewhat limited in their ability. Armour actually meant something (there was greater disparity between cloth and plate, and everything in betwen) and we had more than one bad heal.

    Nowadays it's a different story. I feel like such an NPC. Sure everyone has a Swifty Macro and it's easy enough to dump every damage CD possible, but it terms of sustained, pressure and utility I feel clumsy and rusty.

    Hamstring sucks. Applying that stupid snare to Priests, Rets, Ferals, Monks or Mages is absolutely pointless. In order to grip a target I need to Hamstring every 3rd global. It's such a mess, and even then it's MILDLY effective - if at all. Everyone has so many escapes, immunities, and anti-snare mechanics. Even stuff like Shapeshifting (which I admit is 'class flavour') SHOULD have a CD of 8-10 seconds. SPAM-shifting (glyphed, maybe) shouldn't be subconscious and mindless anti-snare/root behaviour. Druids should have to think about it, but as it stands, they don't. Can't keep them snared at all. Dematerialize is also ridiculously overpowered and it almost negates the whole point of charging a MW Monk for any reason other than interrupt. Even with Juggernaut CD as low as 12 sec, the 10sec ICD of Dematerialize make Charge almost pointless. What a pathetic oversight. Charge>Torpedo.... Charge>Torpedo, repeat ad nauseum. Even if you Stormbolt first you have to WAIT 2 SECONDS before doing anything during which time you've been peeled or something.


    Armour isn't what it used to be. There is this misconception amongst the developers that Warriors are plate-clad juggernauts that take so much less damage than anyone else.. but it just isn't true. So much damage is spell damage - even from melee classes like Paladins, DKs, Muti-Rogues, Shamans.

    I also think we need better healing mechanics. How have we gone from having Enraged Regen and Second Wind in WotLK to just Second Wind? Survivability is awful. More and more classes have executes (Locks, Hunters, DKs, Monks, Rets) and you're nowhere near safe at 35% HP let alone 20%. I don't understand why Enraged Regen is so much worse as a %HP heal than many other classes have. 5% unenraged on the PTR is a couple of DoT ticks. Thanks for nothing! :/ Also, why does rallying cry almost insta-gib the warrior when it fades. Are you honestly telling me that it can't work provide an ACUTAL heal by raising current and maximum health by X and then only reverting the maximum health upon ending? It's a three minute cooldown - surely you can let the health gain actually HEAL us, even if the MAX HP% is only temporary.

    You've got to stop PvE Prot EH getting in the way of DPS PvP. We're really struggling for survivability - especially as Second Wind doesn't actually work on the PTR! O_o

    Charge is also clunky. So often the target reacts quicker than the warrior at the end of a charge. What is the point charging a Hunter if they're able to disengage before you're able to activate your next ability - Hamstring, Shockwave, or whatever. I don't know if Charge shares a DR with itself, but as a tool to get to the target it's unreliable and cumbersome. What's worse is that the Felguard used to have (or still has) some speed buff at the end of a charge just as some kind of quality of life? Why the fork was that not implemented for Warriors? And why is Charging a target so hit-and-miss.

    Shield Wall sucks. The fact we actually have to use a shield 'makes sense' but it's clunky and tempremental. There's a bug on the PTR which 'locks' certain weapons into greyness meaning they're lost in the ether until you relog. That will be fixed, I'm sure, but the fact that a new player can't use their defensive cooldowns without a macro (or opening the character-screen/bag) is a joke. Everyone else 'just hits their CDs' without a care in the world. Knowing that they'll be able to block, or blink, or bubble, or vanish, or CloS, or whatever. We have these precious milliseconds ticking down while our Macro sorts itself out for Spell Reflection, Shield Wall, etc.

    Storm Bolt is clunky, too. For some reason it doesn't work like HoJ or Blind, or any other instant. There is this pretend cast time to it that doesn't actually show up, but you can see in the animation that the Warrior 'winds up' this throw like some Thor-wannabe which is NOT OKAY. With Rogues or Rets or Ferals dancing around you, you need that to go off RIGHT THEN because in 10 milliseconds they're behind you and you have to be facing the target. It's just not good enough. There's SO SO SO LITTLE quality of life to Warriors that it's actually depressing.

    Shockwave is another ability that can be decent but it's buggy and awkward in many situations. For a start it doesn't even reach the whole 10 yards. Go up to a target dummy susceptible to Shockwave and walk backwards until you can charge. You're now at 8 yards. Now walk back a little further to 9-10 yards and hit Shockwave. Doesn't trigger on the target. It's bugged. And has been for ages. but BLizzard don't care - or they're too stupid to fix it.

    And while we're on the subject of fixing things, Heroic leap needs to go. I know it'd dear to them and it was a valiant effort, but it's just too unreliable. I accept that other spells like Blink CAN mess up, but on a 15 second CD you might be able to forgive the odd occasion when it malfunctions and you travel 5-yards. Still, it's probably more of a skill issue than Heroic Leap's problems. Simple gradients are just too much to handle. Both the 'Heroic' and the 'Leap' in the name are complete misnomers... it's just not good enough for the varied terrain we encounter in the game. And if you think you're confident of using it now, wait until you try the new Goldrush BG. It's a bloody nightmare.

    I appreciate the MINISCULE steps taken by Blizzard to help Warriors out in PvP, but it's just not enough. I want to be able to do the best I can according to my skill level. I don't want anything for free, I just want stuff to work. Being forced to use Macros for basic spells, a buggy Stormbolt, a broken Heroic Leap, a faulty Shockwave, and a pathetic Hamstring is just horrible. It takes so much fluidity out of the class.

    So here's what I suggest, Systems Team.

    Make Heroic Throw and Stormbolt instants. I don't just mean 'instants' I MEAN FORKING INSTANTS! As in RIGHT NOW INSTANT

    Decide which way you want to go on Shields. If you like the idea of a warrior using a shield in pvp then ENCOURAGE IT. Don't nerf Spell Reflection into oblivion (6s to 25s) and then proceed to make melee in general so pants in RBGs that they're not taken anyway. I understand prot has been solid up until now, but for arms and fury the cooldown is stupid. If the only other thing you want us to use Shield for (other than reflection) is Wall every 3-5 minutes, then you can go and jump. Class flavour does not count as something you have to do every 3 minutes and never at any other times. If we're stuck with shields, then give us Revenge, a 10-12s Reflection (no glyph available) and a Block/Barrier. If you don't like that Idea. Get rid of requirements for DPS warriors and stop gimping us (especially fury) when we have a shield up - Fury can't use Raging Blow or Wild Strike when they have a shield up. No other class suffers that penalty. Rets can even Blow CDs in Bubble and put out stunning damage considering they're immune.

    Fix Shockwave. It says 10 yards. Have some decency and make it work like you say it should/does!

    Charge is clunky. If you're too stubborn to realise that it needs a fix, then change out set-bonus to give the speedbuff after Charge instead of heroic leap. The current speed bonus after Heroic leap (4pc PvP) is nowhere near fair compensation for having to use it 5-10 yards away from a target due to pathing issues. Charge should NEVER DR and we should be guaranteed to hit our target. I don't want to wait for a second after I reach the target to react. I need that Hamstring to land before a Disengage or Deterrence, etc.

    Better yet - replace Hamstring. It's not good enough. So here's the plan. No-one wants to be snared all the time. I get that, but as a snare, it's awful. Too many classes have too many cheap counters/immunities. Especially Rets, Rogues, Ferals, Monks, Priests, Mages, DKs and Hunters. LOL. The answer is REND! Bring back Rend to replace Hamstring and bake the Bloodbath ability into the spell, giving it a 15sec CD. Rend would do moderate bleed damage over 15seconds as well as reducing the targets movement speed for the duration (PvE) or 8seconds (PvP) Obviously it'd be removed by Stoneform and work in the same was as other bleeds. Of course, you wouldn't be in this position if you hadn't given monks OUR Improved Hamstring (Disable) with NO COOLDOWN - at least there isn't one on the tooltip?

    Replace Bladestorm with Throwdown and make Bladestorm baseline. Bladestorm is a lot of fun, but so bad outside TG-cooldowns. Make it 4-seconds and 1min CD to act as a Freedom or Damage buff. Choices are fun.

    In short, I think warriors are still too rusty, cumbersome and weak. Quality of life doesn't exist (especially with regards to grip and shield abilities). Survivability can't be based on archaic, outdated ideas of how good plate is or what warriors were. The game has changed, and we need to change with it. You can focus on some sort of regeneration theme if you like, but being facerolled to 35% isn't good enough. Everyone takes stupid damage in stuns and Warriors are no different. We need the old Second Wind baseline and something else in place of Second Wind.

    I implore you, Blzzard, to play some Arms in duels and 1vs1. I know that's not what the game is balanced around, but often that's what it can come down to. We simply don't have enough survival tools, and the offensive tools we have are either ineffective or clunky outside of Swifty burst. :/ So many of our spells 'do damage' - we lack our utility of old. It's gutted the class of almost all flavour. Dont' forget that we're hybrids too. Our talent tree really doesn't reflect that very well.

    How about Conversion for Warriors?

    Thanks. :>
    Last edited by Jez7; 2013-04-20 at 04:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Shockwave issue is a latency / client-server connection issue. Where you are in your client and where the Server says you are can be different, and the server is always right.

    The weapon throw change definitely needs to happen. Animation 'swingtime' was a lot of what made SWTOR bad.

    Agree about Shield Wall. Scrap it for DPS specs, give them a weaker but more traditional damage cooldown. Say, 25% on a three minute cooldown.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire lordzed83's Avatar
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    Hamstring +1 it sucks its shit it gets dodged worst snare in game atm.
    At lest in TBC it had chance to immobilise the target now i dont think its worth GCD in many cases..

    Validity Heroic throw... I dont even bother to press it. Sometimes just to stop someone from capping a base. ITs damage is so bad and i remember when it used to deal damage
    Last edited by lordzed83; 2013-04-19 at 12:23 PM.
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  4. #4
    Brewmaster ParanoiD84's Avatar
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    Some good points and well writen, you should post this on the official forum so that blizzard can read it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post

    Agree about Shield Wall. Scrap it for DPS specs, give them a weaker but more traditional damage cooldown. Say, 25% on a three minute cooldown.
    A weaker version ? Really ?

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    Some good points and well writen, you should post this on the official forum so that blizzard can read it.
    Big time agree! Great thread!! Please post on Official - I'll +1 it!!!

  7. #7
    On hamstring, I really wish they would make piercing howl baseline over hamstring, being unavoidable and having a slightly larger than melee range makes PH 1000x more convenient and less annoying than hamstring. My suggestion, make PH baseline but reduce the radius slightly, and turn hamstring into a talent that makes your overpower extend the duration of piercing howl by 3 seconds per overpower or something like that, or replace hindering strikes glyph with what I just mentioned. Therefore we wouldnt have to reapply slows ever other global.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Von Bosch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    Shockwave issue is a latency / client-server connection issue. Where you are in your client and where the Server says you are can be different, and the server is always right.

    The weapon throw change definitely needs to happen. Animation 'swingtime' was a lot of what made SWTOR bad.

    Agree about Shield Wall. Scrap it for DPS specs, give them a weaker but more traditional damage cooldown. Say, 25% on a three minute cooldown.
    Remove shield requirements? yes, lower the damage reduction? absolutely no thats rediculous.

  9. #9
    Rational and well-written post, highlighting some ancient problems that just get pushed off the table by Ghostcrawler, such as Charge after years upon years of debate still being an unreliable gap closer, and the absolutely pathetic self-heal arsenal of warriors (to the point where most choose to get a mediocre heal in execute range of hp over any of the terrible on-demand heals above 35%).

    I liked the idea alot that Charge would give a short Sprint, or god forbid maybe have the option to glyph for Charge to apply Hamstring.

    If we are forced to be the only class in the game to have to weapon-switch to access one of our standard defense cooldowns, then Blizzard should at least have the common decency to recompensate fury an arms warriors for the crippling damage reduction that follows (in reality the tooltip of Shieldwall should be closer to the truth of "Shield Wall - Reduces damage taken by 40%, reduces your damage done by 50%. Requires Shields".

    If you are so obsessed with us wearing a shield, then either double the damage reduction of dps-spec Shield Wall, or give Arms and Fury a damage boost while wearing a shield.

    Stormbolt ontop of being a very lackluster ranged CC comes at a far too steep price of loosing one powerful dps cooldown, which completely contradicts the talent tree system that should offer alternatives that each fulfill a similar purpose, Stormbolt feels like an apple in the orange tree (or a CC in the dps cooldown tree).

    Please make Stormbolt explode in a large radius on impact for massive damage, and maybe cause it to apply an aoe-Chains of Ice effect, instead of a single target stun. This would allow pve warriors to situationally spec into it over Bloodbath and Avatar (for example as an extra ranged aoe burst attack for Tortos bats), instead of never. And would help it fulfill it's pvp purpose of functioning as an extra gap closer.

    Please give us a Heroic Strike style rage dump that heals instead of dealing damage. Suggestion:

    Healing Rage Dump
    30 Rage
    "Focus your rage into instantly suturing your most severe wounds. Heals you for 200% of your AP."

    Not a strong heal by any means. In current level pvp gear people got maybe around 30k AP on average, so you would be healed for 60k non crit before MS effects and fatigue, and sacrifice a significant ammount of damage for this heal too, as it should and as it is for all other melee spec self-heals. We don't want special treatment in terms of self healing, we just want something that's even remotely comparable to the self-healing output of other melee specs, without clinging for dear life to Second Wind passive HoT.

    Again great post OP, kudos.
    Last edited by Calamari; 2013-04-19 at 09:34 PM.
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  10. #10
    Nice post! Not much to add but would definitely like to see it on the official forum and get some proper replies from GC or so.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
    Please give us a Heroic Strike style rage dump that heals instead of dealing damage. Suggestion:

    Healing Rage Dump
    30 Rage
    "Focus your rage into instantly suturing your most severe wounds. Heals you for 200% of your AP."

    Not a strong heal by any means. In current level pvp gear people got maybe around 30k AP on average, so you would be healed for 60k non crit before MS effects and fatigue, and sacrifice a significant ammount of damage for this heal too, as it should and as it is for all other melee spec self-heals. We don't want special treatment in terms of self healing, we just want something that's even remotely comparable to the self-healing output of other melee specs, without clinging for dear life to Second Wind passive HoT.

    Again great post OP, kudos.
    Im a fan of that ability. I always thought they should bake something similar into d-stance, like "In defensive stance your heroic strike transforms into Heroic Regeneration, healing for whateverthefuck." I really wish they gave stances an active intention not just some passive dr or passive rage gen.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    Shockwave issue is a latency / client-server connection issue. Where you are in your client and where the Server says you are can be different, and the server is always right.

    The weapon throw change definitely needs to happen. Animation 'swingtime' was a lot of what made SWTOR bad.

    Agree about Shield Wall. Scrap it for DPS specs, give them a weaker but more traditional damage cooldown. Say, 25% on a three minute cooldown.
    Shockwave "latency issue" happens to every warrior everywhere.

    25% damage reduction on a 3 minute cd is shitty. Just like 40% damage reduction on a 5 minute was shitty. Just like a 40% damage reduction on a 3 minute cd in 5.3 is STILL shitty because of the costs of using it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 07:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Im a fan of that ability. I always thought they should bake something similar into d-stance, like "In defensive stance your heroic strike transforms into Heroic Regeneration, healing for whateverthefuck." I really wish they gave stances an active intention not just some passive dr or passive rage gen.
    Don't expect that to happen. Ever. Stances as we knew it are gone for good because in the current game anything that makes you take 1 second longer than another class puts you behind immensely. That also goes for weapon swapping but apparently Blizzard thought weapon swapping was less clunky than stance dancing. /scumbag Blizzard.



    OP's list is pretty comprehensive but it's missing one very major thing: mobility. Warriors in fact are the least mobile melee in the game. With the current amount of cc's and slows in the game we're in no better a position than we were in Cataclysm to where we would get peeled nearly instantly following a charge. All other melee move faster than us. All other melee have ways to suppress slows. All other melee have more reliable ways to avoid/remove roots.

    As a symptom of all of the above, we're also by far the worst 1v1 class in the game. Which believe it or not translates heavily to rated play environments. 5.3/the second half of this season is going to be as bad as 4.3.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-04-20 at 07:12 AM.
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  13. #13
    What I was proposing is that Shield Wall becomes a Protection-only ability and remains unchanged.

    Let's say, Arms and Fury get a new ability called, and for a shitty example, Defensive Maneuvers.

    Does not require shields, shorter cooldown, lower effects. 25% would keep it in tune with other 3 min cooldowns like...

    Fortifying Brew.

    Icebound Fortitude


    Face it, 40% on a 3 min cooldown with no penalty (IBF has a rune power cost, Combat Readiness [2 min cooldown!] has rampup, etc) would be asking an awful lot when warriors are clearly fine without this QOL Change, and would only be better.

    There's only so much you can get without conceding some. Don't be greedy. 25% arms/fury shield wall is more than acceptable. Oh, and don't forget about your Rallying Cry, Die by the Sword, etc... Don't act like it's your only defensive cooldown.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    What I was proposing is that Shield Wall becomes a Protection-only ability and remains unchanged.

    Let's say, Arms and Fury get a new ability called, and for a shitty example, Defensive Maneuvers.

    Does not require shields, shorter cooldown, lower effects. 25% would keep it in tune with other 3 min cooldowns like...

    Fortifying Brew.

    Icebound Fortitude


    Face it, 40% on a 3 min cooldown with no penalty (IBF has a rune power cost, Combat Readiness [2 min cooldown!] has rampup, etc) would be asking an awful lot when warriors are clearly fine without this QOL Change, and would only be better.

    There's only so much you can get without conceding some. Don't be greedy. 25% arms/fury shield wall is more than acceptable. Oh, and don't forget about your Rallying Cry, Die by the Sword, etc... Don't act like it's your only defensive cooldown.
    That is true, but Fortifying brew comes closer of being that 40% reduction with the health increase. Yes, it's not as good as flat 40% reduction, but has no "cast time" due to not needing any macros or having a damage done reduction. Top of that has nearly twice of duration... To me that Fortifying Brew feels like a stronger combination of Rallying cry and Die by the Sword. Outside of that warriors have... a Shield Wall, with damage done and taken reduction. You could call it as a "second class bubble", but not giving any guarantee that you could survive.

    Icebound fortitude itself is quite weak as a 3min damage reduction, but that's not point of the spell. It also makes a DK stun immune, making sure he/she can use other means to survive and possibly not in need to tank all the damage due to the nature of CC in the game currently.

    Still, warriors weaknesses are mostly abilities being parried/dodged and still stuck on full cooldown with no refund and just the problem of not being able to hit at the required time (latency and lag issues + melee range = horrible), what is the bigger issue of landing a kill.
    Oh those sweet colossus parries, making my already popped cooldowns rather useless (so I have to make sure I stun the target before) or the issue that player is under 20% but just sprinting away - and you can't even slow or stun the target fast enough due to Stormbolts "cast time" + 1.5s globals and the hamstring issue of "not being in the range" even when you can easily hit the target with melee hits...
    Last edited by Kankipappa; 2013-04-20 at 07:44 PM.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Baracuda's Avatar
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    One thing I reacted on was "Revenge" while wearing a shield, I'd almost forgotten how strong it used to be. God that was so fun back in Lich King with 1 sec CD, probably the only fun PvP thing in that X-pack. You could actually apply serious damage while defensive!
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  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans inboundpaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    One thing I reacted on was "Revenge" while wearing a shield, I'd almost forgotten how strong it used to be. God that was so fun back in Lich King with 1 sec CD, probably the only fun PvP thing in that X-pack. You could actually apply serious damage while defensive!
    I remember using it against Rogues, those were the days. Blizzard needs go get their shit together with warriors though, the stupid op -> shit slide has not made for a fun time.
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  17. #17
    We have a 15% (5.3: 25%) damage reduction we can turn on and off as it pleases us (def. stance) and we have a regular defensive cooldown, it's called Die by the Sword and grants 20% flat damage reduction and 100% parry vs melee and we can use it without any strings attached and it's on a shorter cooldown than IFB/Fort. Brew. Why you don't you trade Shieldwall as an archaic bonus? Having 'something' more to hit in a emergency situation clearly helps and with the cooldown lowered to 3 minutes it's a welcome bonus. And don't forget: when you shieldwall you regulary do that because you're in danger, so you either want to reflect anyways or won't say no to the additional ~ 20k armor.

    ---

    I actually like the general idea of Blizzard to force us to adjust our rage spending & generation depending on the situation but if we're getting traing 24/7 ... - well there's still some things to adjust: we can't keep connected to our foes with so much globals wasted on snaring them, hands down. And we still have to pay (7/10 rage for hamstring/ph) for it when all other classes get their snare for free on top of that (which hurts as twice as hard when we're forced to sit in defstance and still have to pay for overpower). While i can understand it for PH it's a nightmare with hamstring, maybe they should alter glyph of hindering strike into mortal strike (so it's only singletarget and can't get spreaded or as suggested above bake it into deep wounds.

    ---

    To be honest all this changes are only fixes and no cure, the current real problem of pvp is the shear amount of counter to counter to counter. Just one example from my latest 2on2 night (yes i know that Blizzard already stated it can't get balanced, but it's fresh in my memory and should give you an idea):

    feral/disc
    Reflecting and interrupting the cyclones of one of them won't hinder his partner to hardcast it (thanks symbiosis). Last stand + renewal on first drop, dispersion on the second drop and life swap on a third before first cooldowns are up again - always coupled with barkskin. All that on top of roots, ursols vortex and instant cyclones from feral and either fear/psyfiend or fear/mind control... yay!

    Is all that stuff needed for pve? People already always complaining about bloated bars, etc... If they'd keep one flavor cc per class and one minor+major defensive cooldown that game could be a lot faster, easier to grasp and way more fun on my level (joe average pvper). And sitting in an unbreakable cc-chain because x doesn't share DR with y while z does isn't fun either.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster meathead's Avatar
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    i have said this countless times-everything about the warrior class is one big nerf. every ability we have/had has been nerfed or removed and giving away to other classes.when warriors do not have the best burst/dps in game we are shit.this is because warriors are so out dated and top end burst/dps hides that fact.without it everyone and anyone can see the issues.

    everything from hamstring and rage to MS,op,execute,slam,SR, Armour,health pools,SW, shield wall,shock wave,fear,b-rage,enrage, and many many more have all been nerfed.hell just look at whats been nerfed/taking away since mop started,now throw in the last 7 years and its lol.

    the one ting blizz could do would be to return warrors MS to 50% and buff its damage,like it BC MS.that would give warriors a nich.but then again other classes would cry because warriors have 1 ability that's better then theirs.
    Last edited by meathead; 2013-04-20 at 02:05 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    the one ting blizz could do would be to return warrors MS to 50% and buff its damage,like it BC MS.that would give warriors a nich.but then again other classes would cry because warriors have 1 ability that's better then theirs.
    You don't have to buff it's damage if you buff the healing reduction by 100%. Don't forget that this would be an indirect buff to all of our (and our teammates!) damage.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    Face it
    Bs. Those classes have Cloak, feint, diffuse magic, touch of kharma, shell, purgatory and so on and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    And don't forget: when you shieldwall you regulary do that because you're in danger, so you either want to reflect anyways or won't say no to the additional ~ 20k armor.
    Because both lead to you being capable of exactly zero pressure which is why in earlier seasons you basically already won when you saw the warrior switch to shield.
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    Is all that stuff needed for pve?
    Yes a good pve cooldown is definitely needed in the long run.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2013-04-20 at 03:13 PM.

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