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  1. #21
    Anyone is welcome to post this (iwht or without credit) on the official forums. I don't have access, I'm afraid.

    You're welcome to all or any of it - for any purpose.

  2. #22
    So they broke second wind on PTR (flat out doesn't work) to force us to test the other two heals. All I can say is: holy fuck do they suck. Elemental shammies can outsurvive us. ELE SHAMMIES. The squishiest spec in the game. Can outsurvive warriors.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    So they broke second wind on PTR (flat out doesn't work) to force us to test the other two heals. All I can say is: holy fuck do they suck. Elemental shammies can outsurvive us. ELE SHAMMIES. The squishiest spec in the game. Can outsurvive warriors.
    Are our heals being effected by the new battle fatigue? Cant remember if they said they were going to make % heals not affected or not.

  4. #24
    Great thread. Warriors really need a survivabilty buff in pvp

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Von Bosch's Avatar
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    wishlist: remove shield requirements for things remove casting time of shattering throw.
    these things are long overdue

  6. #26
    the thing is.. they will never fix warriors.

    When we are on par with other classes the qq train goes beserk because we can actually kill stuff. Its always notably quit when. were nerfed to oblivion while every class trains us but god forbid we get a buff and the qq train starts up again.

    there is also a MJOR double standard where warriors are not allowed to be op. but rogues/mages can be contantly op while currently locks and hunters are somehow getting no mention despite the fact they destroy people. Ir really did miss the point where locks became full fledged tanks and hunters had so much bloody cc coupled with all the moving + casting every caster seems to have.
    At the same time wars have lost throwdown and have to spec glitch stuns to stay on target with a still terrible snare mechanic ( when every other class in the games is auto applied through one way or another) which still costs us primary resource.

    Fas blizzard have no clue what they are doing with the warrior class and seem to use us as a testing bed to test abilities to give to every other class after they take them off us.


    and don't get me started on ring of piece....
    Last edited by Tsubodia; 2013-04-23 at 09:07 PM.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    My own thoughts are that Revenge, Devastate and Heroic Strike are pitifully weak; to the point where your rage is better dumped into Shield Block, making the Heavy Repercussions glyph close to mandatory. The Ultimatum proc is utterly underwhelming, while our self-heals are absolutely appalling and cause us to need healers more than any other tank class. A glyph could allow for Shield Barrier to sacrifice a percentage of its absorb for a small heal, and that would...

    Oh, wait.

    PvP complaints.

    Give it a few posts and meathead will... Oh.

    For the OP:

    Decent enough write up, but the designers don't know what to do with warriors anymore. They believe, rightly or wrongly, that our outdated mechanics are "flavour" and they're unlikely to change them. Given the fact half of our toolkit does something different in PvP and PvE, or flat-out doesn't work, it tells you just how many sticking plasters sit on the class at the moment. And while I'm not sure it's looking as bad as 4.3 for the class, it's not going to be all that far off.

    I gave up PvP mid-Cataclysm. Frankly, I want skill to be the deciding factor in a conflict and I've not felt that way since Wrath of the Lich King.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 10:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    When we are on par with other classes the qq train goes beserk because we can actually kill stuff. Its always notably quit when. were nerfed to oblivion while every class trains us but god forbid we get a buff and the qq train starts up again.
    This was at its worst when Zumio, a hunter, posted a video about hybrid self-heals being brokenly overpowered. He showed a video of him killing a warrior through Second Wind, and having to save all his cooldowns in order to do so.

    His point?

    He shouldn't have to use cooldowns to kill a warrior.

    Now, said warrior couldn't exert a shred of pressure. When he blew his cooldowns he was faced with Deterrence, and Zumio could literally have waited a full three minutes for his cooldowns to come back up (to push through Second Wind).

    Yet he complained.

    One on one, he was GUARANTEED to win, yet still complained.

    It's asinine. The PvP community simply cannot have a measured debate on the topic because they all believe they should be short of nothing. Love him or loathe him, that's what makes Swifty just that bit different - if he duels someone and loses, he generally doesn't cry about it, he goes and finds a way to win and then publicizes it.

    I get the impression that does more bad than good.
    Last edited by Amulree; 2013-04-23 at 09:31 PM.

  8. #28
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    the thing is.. they will never fix warriors.

    When we are on par with other classes the qq train goes beserk because we can actually kill stuff. Its always notably quit when. were nerfed to oblivion while every class trains us but god forbid we get a buff and the qq train starts up again.
    that isn't why warriors will never be fixed

    they'll never be fixed because apparently being the only dysfunctional class in the game with weird cooldowns that suck is "fun"

    people are still scratching their heads trying to figure out spell reflects cooldown was nerfed by 450%, why second wind isn't going to work in roots, and why you would even nerf the most useless talent we have.

    I think that Braindance also made a wonderful post about the topic earlier on Arena Junkies as well.
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  9. #29
    Warrior survivability is worse on the PTR than it is on live. As hard as that might be to believe. The return to 25% defensive stance doesn't do shit when our heals all suck ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  10. #30
    For the sake of changing a pace reroll ench shaman. 1 month later you'll trully appreciate what you've. Just saying, after ench even WW monk gameplay seems fluid.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    For the sake of changing a pace reroll ench shaman. 1 month later you'll trully appreciate what you've. Just saying, after ench even WW monk gameplay seems fluid.
    I have an enhance shaman. and I find it a lot more fun in pvp than my warrior at present. I also live longer as I have a lot more in my arsenal for defensives to survive. Wolves + SR + 40% dmg reduction + maelstrom Self heal (not much but better than nothing) a ranged slow/root + wolf form to get out of combat if needed faster (that doesn't bug) and on top of that if I want to I can talent the element\lsa and gain ANOTHER 40% dmg reduction shield from my earth elemental.

    Enhance shamans are in a good place atm

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine View Post
    My own thoughts are that Revenge, Devastate and Heroic Strike are pitifully weak; to the point where your rage is better dumped into Shield Block, making the Heavy Repercussions glyph close to mandatory. The Ultimatum proc is utterly underwhelming, while our self-heals are absolutely appalling and cause us to need healers more than any other tank class. A glyph could allow for Shield Barrier to sacrifice a percentage of its absorb for a small heal, and that would...

    Oh, wait.

    PvP complaints.

    Give it a few posts and meathead will... Oh.

    For the OP:

    Decent enough write up, but the designers don't know what to do with warriors anymore. They believe, rightly or wrongly, that our outdated mechanics are "flavour" and they're unlikely to change them. Given the fact half of our toolkit does something different in PvP and PvE, or flat-out doesn't work, it tells you just how many sticking plasters sit on the class at the moment. And while I'm not sure it's looking as bad as 4.3 for the class, it's not going to be all that far off.

    I gave up PvP mid-Cataclysm. Frankly, I want skill to be the deciding factor in a conflict and I've not felt that way since Wrath of the Lich King.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 10:28 PM ----------



    This was at its worst when Zumio, a hunter, posted a video about hybrid self-heals being brokenly overpowered. He showed a video of him killing a warrior through Second Wind, and having to save all his cooldowns in order to do so.

    His point?

    He shouldn't have to use cooldowns to kill a warrior.

    Now, said warrior couldn't exert a shred of pressure. When he blew his cooldowns he was faced with Deterrence, and Zumio could literally have waited a full three minutes for his cooldowns to come back up (to push through Second Wind).

    Yet he complained.

    One on one, he was GUARANTEED to win, yet still complained.

    It's asinine. The PvP community simply cannot have a measured debate on the topic because they all believe they should be short of nothing. Love him or loathe him, that's what makes Swifty just that bit different - if he duels someone and loses, he generally doesn't cry about it, he goes and finds a way to win and then publicizes it.

    I get the impression that does more bad than good.
    What do you expect? A melee against a ranged? You are the one having to chase them because they are range, they are a hunter, they can trap, cc. You are supposed to be a warrior, barbarian like guy with swords. People want to keep changing warriors to get what they want making them not a warrior buty some hybrid. Warriors like to train and if you do against a class that is RANGE and they cc you, you die. What is so magical about a warrior? Frost mages have a ice barrier, they are a frost mage. They frost nova and they have a pet, they have slows.

    There was nothing special about a warrior in arena even when they were good, they trained the whole time. Not a real talent to sit on someone for a match chasing them around. I watch bajeera and swifty do it and they seem to do ok, maybe there arent many good warriors out there.

  13. #33
    Dreadlord Elapo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    Shockwave issue is a latency / client-server connection issue. Where you are in your client and where the Server says you are can be different, and the server is always right.

    The weapon throw change definitely needs to happen. Animation 'swingtime' was a lot of what made SWTOR bad.

    Agree about Shield Wall. Scrap it for DPS specs, give them a weaker but more traditional damage cooldown. Say, 25% on a three minute cooldown.
    I was thinking the same for the first one, as I've never had any issues with shockwave.

    I also don't have a problem with heroic throw (can't speak for storm bolt, always use bloodbath or avatar).

    I don't think Blizz has to remove shield wall for DPS, just remove the shield requirement, nerf the damage reduction and add a passive for protection (or maybe better the other way around). Rename it as well if you're like "but SHIELD wall :/".

    Quote Originally Posted by Von Bosch View Post
    Remove shield requirements? yes, lower the damage reduction? absolutely no thats rediculous.
    I4d say lower reduction and CD. 40% is a lot...
    Last edited by Elapo; 2013-04-24 at 07:41 AM.
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  14. #34
    Epic! Anium's Avatar
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    And here I was thinking warriors are in a good place right now...

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    What do you expect? A melee against a ranged?
    I'll tell you what I don't expect; I don't expect a guaranteed loss to turn into a whine from the guaranteed WINNER.

  16. #36
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    For the sake of changing a pace reroll ench shaman.
    its funny

    because theres probably more terrible enhancement shamans than terrible rogues

    people always underestimate enhancement shamans, but you're either pro or you suck

    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    What do you expect? A melee against a ranged?
    2k Mage making a sweeping generalization about how melee players shouldn't be able to enjoy the game at all without a holy paladin slave.

    but its funny

    because you're the kind of person that always complains when someone is getting healed by two holy paladins while you're being trained into the floor and targets you every time
    You get a thumbs up, pat on the back and a "way to go" from your label every day, looking boy
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    There was nothing special about a warrior in arena...
    So you agree that warriors are garbage?
    No world! You put YOUR hands up!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine View Post
    The PvP community
    There is no community worth speaking of which is the basic problem. There are retards in front of insert capital city and people with total delusions in bgs - who should blizzard turn to as they can't balance games on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    There was nothing special about a warrior in arena even when they were good, they trained the whole time. Not a real talent to sit on someone for a match chasing them around.
    Because wizzards have been such skillful to play. JK spam cc nuke.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    For the sake of changing a pace reroll ench shaman. 1 month later you'll trully appreciate what you've. Just saying, after ench even WW monk gameplay seems fluid.
    Enhance happens to have more survivability than warriors right now (1 minute 30% damage reduction usable through stuns + absorbs). Their rotation is undoubtedly A LOT more fluid than warriors. Their grip is BY FAR more than a warrior's. Mobility is definitely FAR less. But they happen to have the best burst cooldown in the game. How is enhance bad again?

    Oh and it's getting a completely unnecessary burst/sustained buff in 5.3 that makes rogue openers feel fair.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-04-24 at 04:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  20. #40
    Too bad blue's are off busy reading posts about "whats your favorite pandaren name". This was well written and NAILED good points.

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