Question about SS averages

[Deleted]

So I've lately started checking random logs, comparing both my guilds other discs and just random ranked player's ones, and it's started to intrigue me how the SS average hits vary so much.

My gear is alright, nothing amazing but comparable with some ranked ones on ie Horridon (which made me look into things in the first place)
Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Tenaru/simple

We're killing 3/13 on heroic 25 so a semi decent guild.

Now, even if I use SS combined with AA every time, abusing Inner Focus and what not, my average SS hits with PoH seem to be around 60-70k.
The other disc in my guild, who plays holy as her MS has her averages around 80k.
Many who've ranked in WoL have theirs over 100k.

Even when comparing the amount of SS hits, I can be parallel to my friend disc, but her amounts absorbed are just "way" higher.
Now, unless I'm completely in the dark I thought mastery doesn't affect SS directly anymore? And even so that would surely not account for 40k differences in averages.
I am really not a good player with maxing out my SS at Horridon as our raid is spread as a mofo and Vuhdos Aoe assist/cluster finder does what it does (read: works maybe half the time) but that doesn't really change the average absorbs, I wouldve thought.

The only thing I can come up with myself is just purely that my friend would only stack SS on 1 or max two groups to get the shields maxed, and that the ranked ones have their raid so stacked they can actually max it out on multiple groups without them managing to break the damn shields before theyre maxed for Dire call, but is that indeed how WoL calculates the absorbs? I tend to try to get 1 cast off on 3 groups (we semi split the groups 2-3) and then build second stacks as time allows in order to have some padding on most groups. And evenso the overall absorbs should surely be around the same if the SS hits are around the same between 2 players, thus I'm confused. (ie. both me and her have say 230 SS hits, but hers account for 20mil absorbs and mine for 15mil (pretty much drew numbers from a hat there to illustrate my point))

I'm most likely knitpicking here, but I'm bored and thought someone clever might enlighten me on how SS is calculated.

[Vashi]

Now, even if I use SS combined with AA every time, abusing Inner Focus and what not, my average SS hits with PoH seem to be around 60-70k.
The other disc in my guild, who plays holy as her MS has her averages around 80k.
Many who've ranked in WoL have theirs over 100k.

Not have much time. But you have not much mastery so maybe thats the difference?

[Deleted]

Now, unless I'm completely in the dark I thought mastery doesn't affect SS directly anymore? And even so that would surely not account for 40k differences in averages.

Again, I might be behind on current information.

[Vashi]

5.2 patch notes.

Mastery: Shield Discipline now also increases all healing done by a lesser amount, but the bonus provided by Mastery has been reduced by 36%.
Spirit Shell can no longer be dispelled and now provides an absorb shield equal to the average healing and absorb of the triggering spell, including criticals and Divine Aegis.

I think only they nerfed our mastery scalling not sure.

If not I pretty much missed it

EDIT: Just checked my WOL from last week and my average SS on that fight is 76k. But I do spam atonement a lot there and missed a lot dire calls so It might be the other way as you said. Peeps stack it more properly just it seems. At last the ranked ones. But we are 10 man tho.

[Deleted]

Afaik it counts exactly like a heal for the purpose of mastery scaling now. Your spirit shell should basically always be equal to what the normal heal would be without shell, just that every shell gets an increase based on your crit rating over you having the chance to get a critting shell.

[Deleted]

Alright, so mastery essentially affects the DA part of the SS then, and the flat healing bit.
I'm just struggling to see how a 4% change in mastery can account for 40k differences in average SS's

[Deleted]

Alright, so mastery essentially affects the DA part of the SS then, and the flat healing bit.

Exactly^^.

I'm just struggling to see how a 4% change in mastery can account for 40k differences in average SS's

It doesn't, and at a typical stat distribution crit is actually a slightly better stat than mastery to increase your spirit shells. World of logs and the combatlog trackers do behave kinda wierdly when it comes to absorbs though, so my guess would be that this is the cause (but I don't actually know, if anyone has some other idea/know the cause, please share:P).

[Vashi]

Exactly^^.



It doesn't, and at a typical stat distribution crit is actually a slightly better stat than mastery to increase your spirit shells. World of logs and the combatlog trackers do behave kinda wierdly when it comes to absorbs though, so my guess would be that this is the cause (but I don't actually know, if anyone has some other idea/know the cause, please share:P).

Then tell me why he has even less SS averages than me when he has lotta more crit than me.

[Deleted]

Then tell me why he has even less SS averages than me when he has lotta more crit than me.

Well, as stated my bet is that worldoflogs is acting strangely when it comes to absorbs (or that there's a difference in buffs/amount of shells cast with/without IF), but I don't actually know the cause. Why don't you and him share your sp, crit & mastery and throw an unbuffed spirit shell each and we'll see where the numbers end up? A slightly less troublesome way if you just want to see that crit generally > mastery for SS would probably be to just reforge a piece in/out of crit/mastery and see how that affects them (unless your crit is very high crit should result in bigger shells).

[Vashi]

I will do it today. Gonna try unbuffed spirit shell maxed out. Can you do the same Tenaru? Gonna post it here.

[Deleted]

I can do it over the weekend sure, how do you plan on tracking the actual capped SS in numbers? Just so I can do the same.

[Deleted]

Not sure if I'm following you guys or not, but there's no real point in capping your spirit shell since that's only based on your health pool. Simply cast one spirit shell each and see where you end up (and remember to avoid/have the same buffs, including trinket procs, inner fire, inner focus and so on). Just hovering over the spirit shell in your buff bar seems to provide the correct amount for me. Hf experimenting (oooor you could just reforge one piece:P)!

[Deleted]

Doesn't that kind of negate the value of crit completely though, as the amount of SS depends quite dramatically on whether my cast crits or not

For frame of reference, I actually have 2 logs from 2 hc 25 Horridon kills, one where I'm reforged to crit, one where to mastery.
Certainly didn't max the usage of SS on either for reasons mentioned above but anyway.

With crit: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7897&e=8611
With mastery (round 38%): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=1302&e=2020

Rng or not my hps and hps(e) are pretty much the same on both fights. SS averages are bigger with reforged to crit though.

On the kill where we both had mastery as top stat, we both had pretty much 37-38%,
I did 197 SS that accounted for 11478030 healing - roughly 11,5 mil
She did 210 SS that accounted for 14303194 healing - roughly 14,3 mil

Seems legit?

[Deleted]

Doesn't that kind of negate the value of crit completely though, as the amount of SS depends quite dramatically on whether my cast crits or not

Your spirit shells never crit, they are simply increased by an amount based on your crit %. To illustrate (random numbers since I'm lazy), lets say that your normal PoH is 40k with the chance of an extra ~50k absorb (critting). Spirit shell will instead always be for a set amount a bit higher to compensate for the fact that it never crits, lets say roughly 50k (obviously depends on your crit/mastery stats). If you threw a huge amount of normal PoHs the average healing from one should end up being equal to your spirit shelled PoH.

For frame of reference, I actually have 2 logs from 2 hc 25 Horridon kills, one where I'm reforged to crit, one where to mastery.
Certainly didn't max the usage of SS on either for reasons mentioned above but anyway.

With crit: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7897&e=8611
With mastery (round 38%): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=1302&e=2020

Rng or not my hps and hps(e) are pretty much the same on both fights. SS averages are bigger with reforged to crit though.

The difference between mastery and crit reforging is really tiny, and you'll hardly be able to see the difference just from two logs (there's way too many other factors influencing it).

On the kill where we both had mastery as top stat, we both had pretty much 37-38%,
I did 197 SS that accounted for 11478030 healing - roughly 11,5 mil
She did 210 SS that accounted for 14303194 healing - roughly 14,3 mil

Seems legit?

Seems somewhat legit, the difference can probably be attributed to different buffs, stats and spirit shell "overhealing" (capping, or dropping before it gets consumed).

[Deleted]

I must've fully misunderstood how SS deals with crits and DA in that case based on the patch notes, but that wouldn't surprise me the slightest

Patch 5.2.0 (2013-03-05): Can no longer be dispelled and now provides an absorb shield equal to the average healing and absorb of the triggering spell, including criticals and [Divine Aegis].
Patch 5.1.0 (2012-11-27): Spells affected by [Inner Focus] cast while Spirit Shell is active now fully apply critical effect heals to the shield provided.

[Deleted]

What they mean is that spirit shell includes what the DA crits turn out to be on average (including non-crit casts). So if your average PoH is 40k, your average DA (from a crit) is 50k and you have a 20% critical strike rating they add 50*0,2=10k to each PoH during shell, resulting in your shells being for 40+10=50k each. I'm exhausted so I bet I'm explaining this really poorly, but do you get what I'm trying to say?:P

[Deleted]

I do, did the first time really, I just didn't initially know it worked quite like that

[Deleted]

Lovely:P, learning new things is always fun (except in school)^^

[Deleted]

So with 21,4% crit, 17,72% mastery, 6,06% haste and 33,7k spell power unbuffed (not in raid) with inner fire my normal SS with PoH is at 50,5k and with Inner Focus at 94k. Havent heard from Vashj though

[Vashi]

Gah I did the top up. Gonna do the just one cast of SS on me today.