Why is gear more important than skill?

[Lulbalance]

No. Big no. I despise the notion of fotm rerollers. Gear progression should be there to discourage rerolling to whatever is currently the best spec.

You want to play the new trend? You will have to suffer while gearing up to those that stick with their characters and their shitiness.

And trust me having the wrong spec in a RBG is much worse than having bad gear. I've seen countless of RBG leaders to deny my spec in favour of a questionable gear lock or dk or boomkin, to completely dominate them in the next game. Class > Gear regarding RBGS.

i actually sorta agree this.. and sorta dont.

i dont like rerollers either, but if someone re-rolls you should still be better than them on your 6,7,8 year main and not have to worry about it right? so whats the beef again?

i guess the beef is if they roll a class that inherently counters yours and on top of that is wildly over-powered. so is it gear over skill.. or class over skill? hmm!

i've been up all night.

[Kreeshak]

i dont like rerollers either, but if someone re-rolls you should still be better than them on your 6,7,8 year main and not have to worry about it right? so whats the beef again?

Out of plenty of examples I will give you one:

I was playing silvershard mines against a team with 4 undergeared rogues which I assume are rerollers. I see an "undefended" cart about to cap. I was positive I would kill whoever popped up of the shadows to get sapped, zerker rage into cheapshot, shadowdance drd cheapshot into blind which I trinket for him to pop couldowns and capture the cart.

An undergeared rogue which I would kill in 3 seconds, managed to break my balls and accomplish his goal.

Now imagine if we gave all these rogues free gear. Would it be fair?

Those that ask for pvp to be all about skill, mean that pvp should be about whichever class should be stronger.

[Deleted]

You've got low skill if you say that gear is more important than skill.

Or...

You are a noob whos to lazy to grind the gear, which is soooo easy to get.

EVERY spec can get 1,8k rating in RBGs IF you are "skilled". And it makes your CP cap high enough to be competitive (competitive at gear aspect atleast) for the whole season. If its too much for you then you are just NOT skilled.

[DechCJC]

Using extremes always makes for a compelling argument.

Now for a realistic scenario. A great player in honor gear doesn't automatically lose to a mediocre player in conquest gear.

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 02:12 PM ----------


I don't think that should happen. I do think PvP gearing should be much more narrow and restrictive though. I'd like to see everyone given a full honor set at 90 to start PvP with and work up to a conquest set over the season, thus majorly decreasing the gear gap between new and long time players while still keeping the RPG gearing progression intact. I think starting from quest blues and working all the way to conquest is too much of a disparity.

It's not really an extreme lol; It's a perfectly valid argument and it's EXACTLY what i'm talking about - A great player in greens is very likely to get decimated by an average player in honor gear. My point is you still need a level of gear before you are able to compete, you have to walk before you can run. You NEED gear before you can start actually doing alright unless you play a low skill cap class (As they're typically very strong against un co-ordinated enemies, despite how good/bad u might be). Sure, you could probably still play 'decent' without gear

When there is a difference in ilvl of like, 20 or more - Gear is more important. My point is that you just can't beat players of even a lesser skill level than you unless you have a certain point in gear. I'm curious, i'd love to see reckful or something go into a bg with half honor/half AH pvp gear with a class like an ele shaman and come against, idk, a BM hunter with full tyrannical. He'd probably get murdered in a heartbeat unless he had partners.

[Otimus]

You've got low skill if you say that gear is more important than skill.

Or...

You are a noob whos to lazy to grind the gear, which is soooo easy to get.

EVERY spec can get 1,8k rating in RBGs IF you are "skilled". And it makes your CP cap high enough to be competitive (competitive at gear aspect atleast) for the whole season. If its too much for you then you are just NOT skilled.

It doesn't make someone lazy to think gear should not be a factor at all in a PVP game. It makes them damn logical. Stuff like that isn't tolerated in any other genre. Maybe in F2P games, maybe. But not in normal competitive games. Most anyone with any sense would tell you that having built in discrepenacies like gear in a PVP game is bad, and makes zero logical sense.
I think we ALL know why it's REALLY there. To keep you playing longer, to keep you paying longer. It adds zero benefits to PVP, and adds LOTS of benefits to Blizzard.

If I had it my way, queueing for PVP of any sort would immediately scale you to level 90, give you all your level 90 abilities and such when you're in, give you a class/role specific set of gear, and would ONLY reward cosmetic things, or side-grades. You know, like how every other competitive game in the world does :x

[Deleted]

There are plenty of games in which gear has no part or place in PvP. Most if not all of them are not RPGs however. Gaining gear and more importantly, stats through the armour and equipment one wears is a staple hallmark of an RPG (and thusly an MMO-RPG).

If you hoesntly want to play games against other players and not have to worry about stat imbalance or gearing, then I would suggest playing another genre of game. Why are you even playing an RPG for PvP, if not for the genre's specific features (such as gear, specific classes, racial bonuses, theorycrafting, etc) ?

---------- Post added 2013-04-21 at 01:34 AM ----------

It doesn't make someone lazy to think gear should not be a factor at all in a PVP game. It makes them damn logical. Stuff like that isn't tolerated in any other genre. Maybe in F2P games, maybe. But not in normal competitive games. Most anyone with any sense would tell you that having built in discrepenacies like gear in a PVP game is bad, and makes zero logical sense.
I think we ALL know why it's REALLY there. To keep you playing longer, to keep you paying longer. It adds zero benefits to PVP, and adds LOTS of benefits to Blizzard.

If I had it my way, queueing for PVP of any sort would immediately scale you to level 90, give you all your level 90 abilities and such when you're in, give you a class/role specific set of gear, and would ONLY reward cosmetic things, or side-grades. You know, like how every other competitive game in the world does :x

GW2 does what you suggest, and in my opinion (and those I played it with) it doesn't make the experience any more fun. If you want the flat playing field of the ''other competitive genres'' you mention (I notice none of them are RPGs), then why not play them? Why try and make WoW or other MMOs like 'them'? Just play the existing game you already like and save yourself the time, money and effort.

[Otimus]

There are plenty of games in which gear has no part or place in PvP. Most if not all of them are not RPGs however. Gaining gear and more importantly, stats through the armour and equipment one wears is a staple hallmark of an RPG (and thusly an MMO-RPG).

If you hoesntly want to play games against other players and not have to worry about stat imbalance or gearing, then I would suggest playing another genre of game. Why are you even playing an RPG for PvP, if not for the genre's specific features (such as gear, specific classes, racial bonuses, theorycrafting, etc) ?

---------- Post added 2013-04-21 at 01:34 AM ----------



GW2 does what you suggest, and in my opinion (and those I played it with) it doesn't make the experience any more fun. If you want the flat playing field of the ''other competitive genres'' you mention (I notice none of them are RPGs), then why not play them? Why try and make WoW or other MMOs like 'them'? Just play the existing game you already like and save yourself the time, money and effort.

What is the benefit to having to gear up to not die in PVP? Seriously. Tell me one single benefit other than making you play longer to give Blizzard more money. One. Single. benefit.

[Deleted]

you dnt need conquest gear to be good in pvp it has an upgrade in stats but malev is perfectly fine for pvp you can still own people with it. most people go for the tyranical cos its something to aim for, i dnt care tbh i kill people with ease now on my bm hunter and i dnt even have full malev yet

[Deleted]

I don't really see a problem here.

Is the problem random BGs? 1v1 as warrior was mentioned in SSM. Or is it rated 3s, RBGs etc?

In rated pvp on any kind of decent rating you will have team mates to fill in for you when you are hit with a CC or just bashed upon and on that rating the gear difference is almost zero. Everyone runs with the best gear available. And that has become easier to do, since easily obtained raid weapons (264 bryntroll and later on HC version) is no longer BiS. I agree Shado Pan trinkets are a problem but it's getting sorted out. Ilvls will be capped so only pvp gear will hit the roof with all stats intact whilst 40 ilvl better pve gear will be "nerfed".

Also when 2.2 was the deal to get a weapon, the way from 1950-2200 or so could be tough if you came late into a season or just wasn't that good and took you some time to climb ratings. Guess what? That's also gone!

Gear is a factor, but not a great one for those who actively play. If you think that you should once DING! lvl 90! get the conquest pvp set and just roll into the arena then yeah I guess any FPS would be more to your taste and gear is considered more important than skill. For any other player I've encountered so far in game, they seem to think it's getting better and better.

[Deleted]

In TBC, I had full brutal gear on affliction lock and rdruid, and I was god. There was huge difference between intro gear and best gear, you completely stomped people. It was fun, but I almost felt bad about killing lowbies.

In wotlk, you could get the newer gear with honor so it was bit better, although in the end there were some really op pve things, but still better than in tbc.

In cata you only had Elite weapon, so no more rating requirement for anything else, which made things in pvp much more even.

Now in mop 5.2, no more rating requirements even for weapon, And in 5.3 65% BASE RESILIENCE for EVERYONE! Only pvp power will make difference, honor gear is so easily obtained. And you get CONQUEST CATCH-UP CAP, so if you didn't play arenas whole 5.2, you will get 1000points extra cap for every week you didn't play arenas minus conquests earned during 5.2, so if you didn't play at all, you get whole 1000points per week, for example 15weeks = 15k CONQUEST CAP. And there is NO MINIMUM conquest points earned during season in order to buy weapon, so if you start playing pvp in 5.3, you can have half tyrannical + malevolent gear in one week, which is pretty sweet if you ask me, makes gearing pvp alts so easy. And after you earn 25000 during season you can buy offspec conquest sets with honor points.

WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT? People already don't see the point in playing pvp for rating, because there is no real reward. Blizzard made huge changes so people like OP would get into pvp, and you POST THIS TOPIC NOW? The things are bit bad right now with consequences of upgrades of gear from season before, and pve trinkets, but it's all going to be good in 5.3 and 5.4, so maybe now it's time for you to play.

[Shiny212]

because then bad people can have more "fun"

[La]

People don't care about the skill you say you have because they'll assume you're just saying you're a skilled player. Whereas if you have a certain high rating or you have great gear, they'll take you because they assume and know you are most likely skilled to have that rating and gear. Of course, not always the case and also unfair to those who, because of this roadblock, can't find a way to increase their gear or ratings despite having a great amount of skill.

[Deleted]

You could do that, but then you would also need to make more options for rating in random BG's. Basically, if you left the upgrade from game to game gear-wise out of WoW PvP (though it's a long time since I have done any and only really random BG's) and turned it into a game like an FPS, MOBA, RTS etc., things where everyone starts from the same spot anew in every game, then you need to have more of the same teaming options, rating options etc. where people you could see and get some progress and measurement of it. When the RPG element is introduced, you pretty much are gonna have the RPG aspect of it, whether it is skills, gear or something else that carries over from game to game.

[Auxis]

Skill can only do so much. Gear gets you past the threshold that maximum skill drops you off at.

[Deleted]

Without any gear you won't live long enough to show your skills.

[Bakis]

Frankly I disagree that it's more important than skill. Important? sure. More important? Absolutely not.

When speaking of ~75% of the playes who got a very low skill it is very important but I would argue that how forgiving a spec is, is more "important" than gear.

Also:

Without any gear you won't live long enough to show your skills.